Roland's Top Ten Ranked: Items that have been added

[Roland]

You can do nothing and die on day 7 also.

Funny but not really comparable to the choices I’m talking about. Choosing to race the storm to some destination is a choice to act not sit passively and do nothing. Choosing to do just one job a day is a choice to do a variety of actions and self directed objectives and not to just sit idle doing nothing. Choosing to create your own path while exploring a POI is a choice to take your fate into your own hands and not to sit doing nothing. Choosing to play the game without focusing on power leveling through the magazines is a choice to make do with what you have and experience a slower progression that keeps the game challenging rather than propelling yourself to always be well ahead of the difficulty curve rendering the game to be a simple snore fest.

The idea isn't that you can or can't do something, but rather the game heavily encourages questing. The game is time sensitive so it trains the mind that being efficient is good as it means being better prepared.

So what if the game encourages or discourages something? I play according to what I believe will deliver fun for myself. There are those who love to follow the encouragement the game offers and they have fun and have no complaints. Then there are those who follow the encouragement but hate the result but act like it wasn’t encouragement but actual forcing.

Also, full destructible gives more credence to the idea of removing loot rooms IMO.

I’m all for spreading loot around and not having one big loot room.

 

[Vaeliorin]

Hmmm…so you do that all the time? I agree that if I did that all the time I’d probably get bored as well but I treat the world as fully destructible and go where I want most of the time. It’s interesting that people play the game in ways they believe they must and then complain about the way they are playing.

The problem with not following the lights is that it tends to lead to spawns not being triggered, and then you get frustrated when you think you've killed all the zombies, and there are some that never spawned because, despite being in every room, you didn't step on the trigger that causes the zombies to spawn.

I'd much rather ignore the lights, but I've run into the situation of zombies not spawning too many times to make it worth the frustration.

 

[n2n1]

I don't know (I started playing with A15) but AFAIK those improvement attempts were probably tries to add new functionality to the old AI code, and those tries showed that it was unmaintainable and could not be improved to support bandits as well (from memory what Fataal said once). So between A16 and A17 the old code was thrown out and rewritten from ground up (by Fataal).

Probably it could have been possible to keep the old code and add a parallel code for bandits but that would have multiple disadvantages in my view:
1) Only one type of zombie intelligence, no way to gradually have more intelligent zombies
2) Double maintenance in case of changes
3) Impossible to add features to zombie behaviour
4) Complicated XML with different language for zombies and bandits
5) Some new feature they want could even be impossible to implement just because nobody wants to touch that old code.

Of course, the old code always needs to be updated if it is not suitable for the current tasks.
But i mean, the old code didn't force zombies do circles - the new code (from development Fataal) did it, which was imperfect. And to set your own mistakes as an example, passing them off as the shortcomings of a third party, in Russia this is called "западло" (it's like a "disgrace" in english).

In other words, you are making a bug, and presented the correction of this bug - as some kind of achievement,
the cause of which is not your fault.... this is typical for yours.

 

[Javabean867]

You know what TFP must not do? Stick to only one style of POI. Why is this so hard to accept that people want something else? Why is variety bad? What´s the problem with having non dungeon style POIs? There is proof that they work just fine when mixed in for having a good time with all those custom POis that aren´t dungeon style.

So, the non-dungeon style pois work with all quest types? What about playstyles?

The main thing i would expect to happen is that people would have a harder time spawning all the zombies to clear the poi, even if going loud. Doubly difficult if they were stealthily.

And if they aren't questioned, then you run into having to do tge same few pois over and over again because they took up valuable real-estate in the traders quest giving range.

I'm not against adding that style of pois, but I think they will cause more problems than they solve.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Roland It´s obviously not about being petted. Do i really need to tell you what a community manager should do? Are we going to pretend you don´t know exactly how that should work? Really?

@Javabean867 Go and try compopack, it has a bunch of non dungeon POIs. Aswell as other POI packs that aren´t in the compopack, ZZtong for example has mainly non dungeon POIs. And yes it works perfectly fine for any playstyle. Obiviously with the hundreds, if it´s not already over a thousand, of POIs in the compopack there are some that have overdone it and you need ages to find every Z, but if TFP does that kind of POI as official vanilla POIs, they will hopefully make sure that this doesn´t happen. People get lost and have a hard time finding all Z`s all the time in offical TFP dungeon style POIs, so yeah it might happen. But that doesn´t stop TFP from keeping that concept....

 

[Suxar]

If there was no loot room then people into efficiency wouldn't bother. They already say there's no point to just exploring POIs without a quest since there's no reward attached to doing.

I'm so tired of reading about efficiency. What does this efficiency of yours mean? At the beginning of the game, plastic trash on the floor can be more valuable to me than loot in the loot room, since I'll build a dev collector faster. At the end of the game, the situation will be the opposite. I often clear all the POIs in a row at the beginning of the game, put everything I find in the boxes nearby and only then drag it all to the place where I'll build a base. Well, at least in a single game. When playing on a dedicated server, I act differently, since there is trading there.

 

[meganoth]

Of course, the old code always needs to be updated if it is not suitable for the current tasks.

And sometimes it needs to be thrown out, if it can't be upgraded efficiently. It might not even be bad, just programming with a smaller scope in mind and having bit-rot through too many changes from too many different programmers. In western societies that is called "too many cooks spoil the broth"

But i mean, the old code didn't force zombies do circles - the new code (from development Fataal) did it, which was imperfect. And to set your own mistakes as an example, passing them off as the shortcomings of a third party, in Russia this is called "западло" (it's like a "disgrace" in english).

Faatal is not a russian, so his answer doesn't conform to russian standards. Also he was asked this and it is also polite to answer truthfully, and that is something people here in the forum probably value.

More importantly though, it seems he was hired in 2018, but A15 was released in 2016, A16 in 2017. And I think he was specifically hired for the AI rewrite. Probably because nobody on the team wanted to touch the AI code and if you are right they even burned their fingers touching it.

In other words, you are making a bug, and presented the correction of this bug - as some kind of achievement,
the cause of which is not your fault.... this is typical for yours.

In other words, we don't know who made the mistake, but (at least if my research is correct) it could not have been Faatal who made the bug. And in that case the achievement would stand.

 

[n2n1]

And sometimes it needs to be thrown out, if it can't be upgraded efficiently. It might not even be bad, just programming with a smaller scope in mind and having bit-rot through too many changes from too many different programmers. In western societies that is called "too many cooks spoil the broth"



Faatal is not a russian, so his answer doesn't conform to russian standards. Also he was asked this and it is also polite to answer truthfully, and that is something people here in the forum probably value.

More importantly though, it seems he was hired in 2018, but A15 was released in 2016, A16 in 2017. And I think he was specifically hired for the AI rewrite. Probably because nobody on the team wanted to touch the AI code and if you are right they even burned their fingers touching it.



In other words, we don't know who made the mistake, but (at least if my research is correct) it could not have been Faatal who made the bug. And in that case the achievement would stand.

My remark was not intended to analyze anyone's activities or reasons.
I was talking about how this is presented to users.

 

[LordSoth01]

7) Outfit Sets: The outfit sets we have now are great. They each have their own bonuses as well as a set bonus if you can find or craft all four pieces. They look much better than the old layered clothing and armor and with fewer mod slots there are actually some tough choices that can be made now whereas before there was no need for choices. You just slotted everything you found in with plenty of slots and more for any mod you could find. You can play the armor by just wearing what you have and make those stat changes a part of your character and play the game with those particular strengths or you can change outfits multiple times a day to get the strongest bonuses for whatever activity you're doing at the time. Both playstyles are supported. Recently, we have been given the ability to make any piece look like any other piece so if you like an armor's bonus but don't like how it looks you can adjust the look to something you like better.

I do enjoy the outfit sets and also the mixing up of pieces. I think an added rare *wildcard* set piece that would work to fill in as a full set with random stuff as well.

 

[meganoth]

My remark was not intended to analyze anyone's activities or reasons.
I was talking about how this is presented to users.

To know how it was presented to users one would have to find and reread the old posts.

And since you are using present tense and nobody from TFP commented on this: If you are talking about **my** representation, I am not part of TFP, so I can hardly talk about "my own mistakes", can I?

 

[Roland]

What does this efficiency of yours mean?

Some players take efficiency to an extreme. Their goal isn’t to achieve a personal objective like building a dew collector, or getting their shelter built or obtaining a pot and ingredients for meals or starting a farm or a mine. Their goal is solely to level up and get to the top of the perk and crafting progressions as quickly as possible.

There are two kinds of these players. Type A pushes this progression efficiency to the max and loves it and has no complaints. Type B pushes this progression efficiency to the max because they feel forced by the game to do so and they hate it.

Focusing on gathering plastic to make your dew collector is not what I mean. In the case of POIs, players focused on progression efficiency go straight to the loot room bypassing the rest of the POI. My point in this conversation was that POIs without loot rooms would just be ignored.

Please note that I don’t care whether someone rushes the progression if that’s how they want to play. My only disagreement is with those who claim they are forced by the developers to do so and who continue to play in a way that leads to their own dissatisfaction. Those who do it and love it…I’m happy they enjoy the game their way.

 

[theFlu]

Type B pushes this progression efficiency to the max because they feel forced by the game to do so and they hate it.

In the world with an Alt-F4, what is the difference between encouragement and forcing?

My point in this conversation was that POIs without loot rooms would just be ignored.

And isn't this just a problem for us sleazy min/maxers, who are to be ignored whenever they speak anyway; they're playing the game wrong if they skip those POIs, no?

 

[n2n1]

To know how it was presented to users one would have to find and reread the old posts.

And since you are using present tense and nobody from TFP commented on this: If you are talking about **my** representation, I am not part of TFP, so I can hardly talk about "my own mistakes", can I?

I'm talking about today's presented.
For example, how Roland did it in the same topic. And my comment was specifically about his post and he was on this topic.

PS: By the way, i remember that it was the same during A17. Nothing has changed.
I remember that because my a*s was on fire then, too.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

Please note that I don’t care whether someone rushes the progression if that’s how they want to play.

This is the main issue and its called "balance"
it doesn't matter what player A or B does. what matters is how it effects player C.
in multiplayer most people player C,
want a fair and balanced game w/e the standard is between all players on the server.
7d2d is a multiplayer game supports up to 8 players.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Focusing on gathering plastic to make your dew collector is not what I mean. In the case of POIs, players focused on progression efficiency go straight to the loot room bypassing the rest of the POI. My point in this conversation was that POIs without loot rooms would just be ignored.

Just because it´s a non dungeon style POI doesn´t mean you can run straight to the loot room or chest. Those can be clear quests also. There is a ton of options between having one single path and a completly open POI. I don´t know why everyone assumes non dungeon style means easy and every room can be easily found. There is plenty of custom POIs that show that it is possible to still provide a challenge where you can´t just directly run to the loot. Also in a ton of vanilla POI´s you can simply grab the loot without any challenge if you simply ignore the path. No difference there. That´s not an argument.

 

[Kalen]

Focusing on gathering plastic to make your dew collector is not what I mean. In the case of POIs, players focused on progression efficiency go straight to the loot room bypassing the rest of the POI. My point in this conversation was that POIs without loot rooms would just be ignored.

Which is why I think it would be good if loot rooms were randomly located or missing entirely. That way, you wouldn't know where it is or if its even there.... you'd have to explore making each POI a new(ish) experience.

 

[Kosmic Kerman]

Which is why I think it would be good if loot rooms were randomly located or missing entirely. That way, you wouldn't know where it is or if it’s even there.... you'd have to explore making each POI a new(ish) experience.

I am sure this would be a real popular change. /s

I will go ahead and say the quiet part out loud…. You cannot design a game around players who optimize the fun out of the game. No matter what you change, they will, by their very nature, optimize the fun out of the game once they adapt to the new system. And the game will be a grindy mess for everyone else.

 

[meganoth]

I'm talking about today's presented.
For example, how Roland did it in the same topic. And my comment was specifically about his post and he was on this topic.

A link to that representation by Roland would have been useful, I don't know which of his many posts in this thread you are refering to. Anyway, like me he is not a part of TFP, he is not representing TFP in any way.

PS: By the way, i remember that it was the same during A17. Nothing has changed.
I remember that because my a*s was on fire then, too.

What was the same in A17? Zombies running in circles? I remember differently, A17 was famous for all the zombies going to the exact spot where they could get to you with the least effort. Where the "zombies with engineering degrees" meme started

 

[Roland]

Just because it´s a non dungeon style POI doesn´t mean you can run straight to the loot room or chest. Those can be clear quests also. There is a ton of options between having one single path and a completly open POI. I don´t know why everyone assumes non dungeon style means easy and every room can be easily found. There is plenty of custom POIs that show that it is possible to still provide a challenge where you can´t just directly run to the loot. Also in a ton of vanilla POI´s you can simply grab the loot without any challenge if you simply ignore the path. No difference there. That´s not an argument.

Got it. You keep repeating yourself and at least for my part it isn’t necessary. I understand there are shades of gray. When I posted this list praising the dungeon POIs that have been added, it was not to advocate that future POIs should only be dungeon POis. I’ve been around long enough to read many many many posts asking for a return to the way POIs used to be and I don’t want that. Just because Ibdont want that doesn’t mean I’m not open to a variety of design styles for POIs.

So you can relax when responding to me at least. I’ve nothing against suggestions for new and diverse ways to design POIs. But I’m also grateful for the change in POI design that did occur starting around A17/A18 and continuing to now. Personally I’d be happy if they continue to add more dungeon style POIs in the future but also happy if they make non-dungeon types that are still challenging and interesting.

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Which is why I think it would be good if loot rooms were randomly located or missing entirely. That way, you wouldn't know where it is or if it’s even there.... you'd have to explore making each POI a new(ish) experience.

Me too. I enjoy some of the more recent POis where the good loot containers are spread around more. I’d be happy to see more of those.

 

[NiteViper]

Me too. I enjoy some of the more recent POis where the good loot containers are spread around more. I’d be happy to see more of those.

Or if loot rooms were to not get spread around more, at least make them more challenging to get to, maybe booby traps or something.