Jars, Dew Collectors, And Survival

[beerfly]

Been like that for a long while now. Consoles can't have experimental builds - stable only.

Just want to add to that, this have nothing about with the Pimps as being developers of that one product called game, particularly 7 days to die.

It is about console regulations and terms of software distribution that everyone should follow.

So, everyone who plays on consoles, have fun guys, us on the PCs do the dirty job to start a new game, report problems in experimental, so not only us, but also you get the better version called stable version in the future.

It is fun, but the better one is in stable versions that you guys get

 

[Riamus]

Okay, so let's think about jars for a minute.

One reason given to want them is reason or immersion. If you were living in a world where zombies are walking through water and corpses are everywhere, the last thing you want to be doing is drinking water from a lake or river, regardless what you do to decontaminate it. Sure, if you have no choice, you can do it. But you are very likely to face some kind of side effects, including potential death. It would be fast safer to use a rain collector or dew collector. There are still risks there if there are any contaminants in the air, but it would tend to be a safer choice.

So from a realism perspective, a few collector trumps gathering water from a lake or river for drinking. That being said, there is no reason you couldn't use contaminated water for making glue. So gathering water from a lake or river trumps a few collector when making glue.

Now, I will agree that most people have no survival experience and many have no common sense. And most probably wouldn't know how to make a dew collector or even know what one was. So in reality, many would drink from a lake or river of there wasn't running water in houses or wherever and no jugs or bottles of water in stores or anywhere. And most would probably die because of it. So I suppose you can call it realistic to be and to do that... if they add an 80% chance to die.

Next, let's look at jars. From a realism or immersive view, it isn't at all realistic or immersive to carry around a bunch of glass jars. If you were going to gather water from a lake or river, you would use something larger... 1 gallon plastic bottles, buckets, etc. You would then carry that back to do whatever you want with it. If you were to use it for drinking water, you would decontaminate it and then put it into smaller bottles or jars or canteens and only carry a few of those around with you. So no going to a lake or river with dozens of empty jars. So from a realistic or immersive view, you wouldn't take jars there to get water. However, you would be able to bring back water in large containers that wouldn't stack.

As far as it not being immersive or realistic for them to disappear, abstraction is part of games. It isn't hard to imagine the jar is just put away into an inventory you can't see or directly interact with and then pulled out as needed (e.g. to use with a dew collector). Abstraction doesn't break immersion or reality.

I wonder how many people who want jars would be happy just being able to transport water from a water source to use of that was done without jars, such as by using a bucket? How many actually care about immersion and realism versus just wanting a way to fill hundreds of jars with water in seconds? I know some say it isn't about the jars, but if you look at all the posts yelling for jars to be brought back, it seems that most who want them want the jars more than just wanting to have immersion of being able to get water from a water source.

I wouldn't mind having the ability to get water from a lake or river using a bucket. I would not want to see about jars brought back. Those can remain abstracted. They just water space and don't really add anything to the game, imo.

 

[Kalnazzar]

Okay, so let's think about jars for a minute.

One reason given to want them is reason or immersion. If you were living in a world where zombies are walking through water and corpses are everywhere, the last thing you want to be doing is drinking water from a lake or river, regardless what you do to decontaminate it. Sure, if you have no choice, you can do it. But you are very likely to face some kind of side effects, including potential death. It would be fast safer to use a rain collector or dew collector. There are still risks there if there are any contaminants in the air, but it would tend to be a safer choice.

So from a realism perspective, a few collector trumps gathering water from a lake or river for drinking. That being said, there is no reason you couldn't use contaminated water for making glue. So gathering water from a lake or river trumps a few collector when making glue.

Now, I will agree that most people have no survival experience and many have no common sense. And most probably wouldn't know how to make a dew collector or even know what one was. So in reality, many would drink from a lake or river of there wasn't running water in houses or wherever and no jugs or bottles of water in stores or anywhere. And most would probably die because of it. So I suppose you can call it realistic to be and to do that... if they add an 80% chance to die.

Next, let's look at jars. From a realism or immersive view, it isn't at all realistic or immersive to carry around a bunch of glass jars. If you were going to gather water from a lake or river, you would use something larger... 1 gallon plastic bottles, buckets, etc. You would then carry that back to do whatever you want with it. If you were to use it for drinking water, you would decontaminate it and then put it into smaller bottles or jars or canteens and only carry a few of those around with you. So no going to a lake or river with dozens of empty jars. So from a realistic or immersive view, you wouldn't take jars there to get water. However, you would be able to bring back water in large containers that wouldn't stack.

As far as it not being immersive or realistic for them to disappear, abstraction is part of games. It isn't hard to imagine the jar is just put away into an inventory you can't see or directly interact with and then pulled out as needed (e.g. to use with a dew collector). Abstraction doesn't break immersion or reality.

I wonder how many people who want jars would be happy just being able to transport water from a water source to use of that was done without jars, such as by using a bucket? How many actually care about immersion and realism versus just wanting a way to fill hundreds of jars with water in seconds? I know some say it isn't about the jars, but if you look at all the posts yelling for jars to be brought back, it seems that most who want them want the jars more than just wanting to have immersion of being able to get water from a water source.

I wouldn't mind having the ability to get water from a lake or river using a bucket. I would not want to see about jars brought back. Those can remain abstracted. They just water space and don't really add anything to the game, imo.

I don’t understand why some people keep questioning why others enjoyed jars and want them back. Yes, we have gas cans that don’t need to be filled or returned, but that’s irrelevant. The developers didn’t change the gas system to force players to fill gas cans, nor did they add or remove anything from it. However, they did remove jars, something many players genuinely enjoyed.

In none of my posts have I ever suggested removing dew collectors or disabling AFK mobile farming stations. That’s not my point. I’m simply asking for jars to be brought back. I’m even fine with making it harder to gather water this way, bring on the extra steps! I enjoy gameplay that involves interacting with the world, like collecting and processing water from lakes or rivers. If jars are reintroduced with a tougher system, say, taking twice as long to boil or three times as long to filter, those who prefer the faster, AFK dew collector method can keep using it.

If you don’t care about jars, you wouldn’t craft them anyway, so why does it matter if they’re added back? You’d keep playing the way you already do, and jars wouldn’t affect you. For those of us who want them, it’s about enjoying a more immersive, hands on approach. And to address the inevitable “you just want 5000 jars for easy water” argument, no, I’m literally saying make it harder. Make it take longer to process water. We’re not asking for an easy exploit; we just want the option to play the game in a way we find engaging.

 

[Lax]

Why do they insist on neglecting my cans?

 

[Kalnazzar]

Why do they insist on neglecting my cans?

I’m fine with using cans to collect water, but I don’t see how we could keep the water secure while moving around without a proper lid. Adding a can sealing station could solve this, allowing players to seal the cans and make them practical for transport. To clarify, people seem to think I’m fixated on jars, but that’s not the case. I’m fine with any container, cans, bottles, buckets, whatever, for collecting water. I just really like the jar asset’s visual design. It’s clear, crisp, and well-crafted. I wasn’t a fan of the old yellow lid, but the new silver lid looks fantastic and adds to the game’s immersive feel. I even at one point, had new jar models made for the game back when that yellow lid was still being used... had a jar just for honey because players had to use honeycomb along with a jar to store it.

 

[EvilPolygons]

Okay, so let's think about jars for a minute.

One reason given to want them is reason or immersion. If you were living in a world where zombies are walking through water and corpses are everywhere, the last thing you want to be doing is drinking water from a lake or river, regardless what you do to decontaminate it. Sure, if you have no choice, you can do it. But you are very likely to face some kind of side effects, including potential death. It would be fast safer to use a rain collector or dew collector. There are still risks there if there are any contaminants in the air, but it would tend to be a safer choice.

The drinking water that comes out of your tap was raw sewage a week ago. And they don't even boil it in water treatment plants. They certainly don't distill it. All they do is strain the crap out of it (literally) and mix it with chlorine. That's it. Then you drink and shower with it.

The argument that all lakes and rivers would be somehow spoiled by dead things floating around in them ignores the reality that all lakes and rivers in real life already have dead things floating around in them. And animals (and people) going to the bathroom in them. No offense, but these kinds of arguments make me wonder how much time some of you guys have ever spent in the great outdoors.

Pathogens don't survive boiling, and the toxins left by various bacteria are no match for soap.
Viruses don't exactly thrive in fresh water sources, either.
Protozoa are the most likely things to make you sick from drinking contaminated water, and they aren't any more difficult to get rid of than bacteria.
Throw bleach into the equation and there's nothing you can't sterilize.

Again, the water you drink today was raw sewage a week ago.

 

[SkoomaCatJesus]

@EvilPolygons jars just don't feel good for where the game is at. It would make more sense to return water pickups in the wild, but have POI events that steal or take supplies from the players inventory. I would find it truly next level if a POI like Area 7 (super massive) stole supplies from my inventory and forced me to use the POI itself to succeed. Honestly, I feel like a "tier 7" experience should be a moment of transition away from "more zombies" and towards POI survival with "the harder and trickier zombies." Installation Blue Ridge is such a perfect example, with the spider trap at the end. I would deeply love to see the Fun Pimps play with the player through supply "take and return" concepts. Like, imagine your supplies are taken, but the end of the POI revealed the backpack pickup to get them back, or if the POI seized a percentage of certain supplies. I can imagine a POI "explosion event" removing specific items from the player inventory while reducing others by a percentage. A scarcity mechanic is just what the game needs to ensure that the POI itself can scale with the player as a challenge protected from Godperking. It would be a great way to take the burnt forest and snow biomes to a very unique place that reflects the POI placement and zoning found in Navezgane. I am not against the idea of a zombie that knocks player supplies onto the ground with each successful hit.

 

[Cruiser]

First, search all the nearest electronics stores for a floppy disk drive and floppy disks. Then take WinRAR, WinZip or 7zip and create a multi-volume archive with a volume size equal to the floppy disk capacity. Copy the archives to the floppy disks. Transfer all this to another computer. Copy the archives from the floppy disks to the hard drive. Unzip. Enjoy the game.

I dont have any other way to put this, but you? You are evil incarnate.

 

[EvilPolygons]

@EvilPolygons jars just don't feel good for where the game is at. It would make more sense to return water pickups in the wild, but have POI events that steal or take supplies from the players inventory. I would find it truly next level if a POI like Area 7 (super massive) stole supplies from my inventory and forced me to use the POI itself to succeed. Honestly, I feel like a "tier 7" experience should be a moment of transition away from "more zombies" and towards POI survival with "the harder and trickier zombies."

I've had the game modded with BangForYouBucket for a very long time now, which basically returns water gathering to where it was pre-dew collectors, but *without* jars being needed. So it treats water just like gasoline and every other inventory item. The catch is that you use a bucket for water gathering, and can only boil one bucket's worth of water at a time. So it allows realistic gathering without the exploits and absurdities involved with glass jars. Also, now that water physics are simulated, the old "infinite puddle" exploit no longer works.

BangForYourBucket doesn't get rid of dew collectors, so you can still use those if you want.

Regardless of what happens with vanilla, this is exactly how I'll keep playing because it feels "realistic" while still being consistent with how the game treats other items, such as gas. If TFP brings jars back, I'll mod them right back out again.

Speaking of which, awhile back I actually tried to mod in a totally new type of "toxic" water block. My goal was to allow POIs to use water blocks decoratively (or even as an environmental hazard) without making water TOO easy to find everywhere. Sort of like how POI designers can use deco versions of the different ores. But sadly any new water blocks added via xml modding cannot inherit the liquid physics simulation of vanilla water.

I'm still super bummed about that. It would have solved a number of water-related game balance issues AND added a new hazard type into the world. Oh well.

 

[NiteVIper]

Why do they insist on neglecting my cans?

Sorry, I smelted them. My forge was getting a little bit low on iron

 

[seven]

The drinking water that comes out of your tap was raw sewage a week ago. And they don't even boil it in water treatment plants. They certainly don't distill it. All they do is strain the crap out of it (literally) and mix it with chlorine. That's it. Then you drink and shower with it.

The argument that all lakes and rivers would be somehow spoiled by dead things floating around in them ignores the reality that all lakes and rivers in real life already have dead things floating around in them. And animals (and people) going to the bathroom in them. No offense, but these kinds of arguments make me wonder how much time some of you guys have ever spent in the great outdoors.

Pathogens don't survive boiling, and the toxins left by various bacteria are no match for soap.
Viruses don't exactly thrive in fresh water sources, either.
Protozoa are the most likely things to make you sick from drinking contaminated water, and they aren't any more difficult to get rid of than bacteria.
Throw bleach into the equation and there's nothing you can't sterilize.

Again, the water you drink today was raw sewage a week ago.

Reclaimed water in my town is used for golf courses, things like that. It's actually "cleaner" than the water sources that are used, but people would never stand for drinking sewer water.

 

[NiteVIper]

First, search all the nearest electronics stores for a floppy disk drive and floppy disks. Then take WinRAR, WinZip or 7zip and create a multi-volume archive with a volume size equal to the floppy disk capacity. Copy the archives to the floppy disks. Transfer all this to another computer. Copy the archives from the floppy disks to the hard drive. Unzip. Enjoy the game.

HOUSTON, we have a problem... gonna take a whole lot of floppy's. If I remember, they only hold 70-80 kilobytes

 

[Lax]

I dont have any other way to put this, but you? You are evil incarnate.

Well, you could always use Fortran to copy about 50 punch cards to the mainframe.

Post automatically merged: Friday at 9:21 PM

HOUSTON, we have a problem... gonna take a whole lot of floppy's. If I remember, they only hold 70-80 kilobytes

1.4k

 

[7 Days to make their game]

I don’t understand how, after several years in Alpha, and supposedly listening to their players, the very community that has kept this game alive— the developers can be so ignorant and arrogant as to completely ignore the community’s requests. They are utterly ungrateful. The only reason this game made it out of Alpha into a 1.0 release is thanks to the modders, who have been a crucial pillar preventing the barebones base game from dying, even though they seem to make it worse with every update.

They were doing great up until Alpha 16, but the developers’ arrogance ruined everything. This complaint isn’t new; it’s been around for quite a while, yet they still completely ignore the community that’s paying for this so-called “official” product (which doesn’t even feel official). They keep promising that bandits are “coming soon,” but keep postponing it to later versions. Why? Because they apparently aren’t even capable of developing something like that, perhaps they lack the experience or the skills.

Furthermore, they are excessively slow at developing, which is truly surprising. How is it possible that the small team behind the “Darkness Falls” mod can implement a huge amount of additional content that brings the base game to life, while the developers take years and years, and also force you to play exclusively in the way they want and nothing else? They are fkn arrogant, it's crazy.

I’m writing this as a software developer, and it’s clear to me they’re unable to listen to or even read what their community says. With all due respect: they’re idiots, and fkn slow.

 

[NiteVIper]

I don’t understand how, after several years in Alpha, and supposedly listening to their players, the very community that has kept this game alive— the developers can be so ignorant and arrogant as to completely ignore the community’s requests. They are utterly ungrateful. The only reason this game made it out of Alpha into a 1.0 release is thanks to the modders, who have been a crucial pillar preventing the barebones base game from dying, even though they seem to make it worse with every update.

They were doing great up until Alpha 16, but the developers’ arrogance ruined everything. This complaint isn’t new; it’s been around for quite a while, yet they still completely ignore the community that’s paying for this so-called “official” product (which doesn’t even feel official). They keep promising that bandits are “coming soon,” but keep postponing it to later versions. Why? Because they apparently aren’t even capable of developing something like that, perhaps they lack the experience or the skills.

Furthermore, they are excessively slow at developing, which is truly surprising. How is it possible that the small team behind the “Darkness Falls” mod can implement a huge amount of additional content that brings the base game to life, while the developers take years and years, and also force you to play exclusively in the way they want and nothing else? They are fkn arrogant, it's crazy.

I’m writing this as a software developer, and it’s clear to me they’re unable to listen to or even read what their community says. With all due respect: they’re idiots, and fkn slow.

Dang, how many accounts are you going to make. Don't even know why your bother wasting your time, you'll just run your mouth off and tick off an admin and then get that account banned too

 

[Kalnazzar]

Dang, how many accounts are you going to make. Don't even know why your bother wasting your time, you'll just run your mouth off and tick off an admin and then get that account banned too

I strongly agree with the sentiment expressed by many in the community: we can request features like jars repeatedly without disrupting the playstyles of others. Players who prefer dew collectors can continue using them, and those who dislike jars simply won’t craft or use them. The developers could even implement a more challenging crafting and collection system for jars to maintain balance, yet they still seem unwilling to listen.

JaWoodle echoed similar concerns in his detailed video discussing the update, removed features, and the game’s current direction

. Likewise, IzPrebuilt and numerous other streamers, along with hundreds of players who cherished Alpha 16, have voiced their frustrations. The ongoing popularity of mods like Undead Legacy, which retains a functional water collection system, shows a significant portion of the player base feels alienated. This division stems from a lack of open dialogue and responsiveness from the developers. With so many voices, JaWoodle, IzPrebuilt

, and countless others raising concerns, it’s hard to ignore that something is amiss. If this many players feel the current direction is off, it’s not blindness to suggest the Fun Pimps are missing the mark. I urge the developers to consider offering optional features, like the return of jars, allowing us to enjoy the game in the way we love.

 

[EvilPolygons]

Reclaimed water in my town is used for golf courses, things like that. It's actually "cleaner" than the water sources that are used, but people would never stand for drinking sewer water.

Treated wastewater that isn't immediately recycled back into the system generally gets dumped into local lakes and other bodies of water. So even if the people in your town think their drinking water comes from the nearest reservoir, that just means it's lake water mixed with water from those treatment plants. Mmmm blended poopy water.

 

[NiteVIper]

But do you know how annoying it gets, when the same people are constantly repeating the same thing over and over in almost every post.

 

[EvilPolygons]

But do you know how annoying it gets, when the same people are constantly repeating the same thing over and over in almost every post.

I'm fairly certain some of these accounts are just sock puppets. Their posts are waaay too similar in terms of style, grammar, content, etc, for it to be coincidence.

 

[SkoomaCatJesus]

Likewise, IzPrebuilt and numerous other streamers, along with hundreds of players who cherished Alpha 16

It seems to me that what players want is a reflexive dichotomy where the more "you lean into" a playstyle, the more it opens up while the other "stays flat" or "closes up." I have noticed that references to Alpha 16 describe more of a desire for "the choice pick" affecting the other routes and styles of play. Kind of like the idea that if a player advances the dew collector past a certain point, casual access to water (using the other methods) is less fruitful (or any other dimension of resistance you can think of). Like, if you can get 6 clean water from the dew collector, then why would the player reach for jars or other sources as a first resort. I mean it from the sandbox perspective, where outcomes in the game influence each other. I personally love that I can perk myself to Godhood (kills my games), but it can be made better if "learn by doing" was an overlay that reduces the power of my perks based on fluidity of play style. Like, if I "Godperked" into 3 classes, I would want the perks I used most often to be most relevant and fully expressed over the others. Think of it as a way to say that you can branch into anything at any time, but you are only best at a pool of fixed size. A long winded way for me to say that max pooling should be used to add scope and constraint to uphold tension over achieving in-game godhood, but more broadly applied to in-game mechanics (like water and more).