PC V2.0 Storms Brewing Dev Diary

meganoth said:
Very important info first: I am not part of TPF, I am a volunteer moderator, I have no knowledge of the inside of TFP at all except what their developers have posted here.

Next, I was partly speaking in general terms about game development and making the point about all bigger development companies following such a pipelining approach to game development. Nothing new and it makes sense, saves money and time. It is also much safer for a company when the next game isn't as many years away when one game turns out to be a dud.

Now, what we here on the forum know about graphics design of bandits for example is that it seems to be finished. This was done at the same time as the player armor redesign, the bandits will likely wear the same armor as we do. Sound? No idea.

If bandits wear the same armor it follows you can already look at bandits if you want, just play multiplayer or call up your character page ;)

What we also know is that bandits AI is not finished yet, Faatal was telling us lately about advances he made with the AI.

Coders for the next game: Everything AFAIK and certainly not verified, likely with errors: TFP is working on 2 games. One is contract work for some publisher and it is done by newly hired guys in the unreal engine. The other will be done in this engine, will likely use most of the code used for 7d2d and so far the only one I know for sure who is working on that is madmole, as game designer.

Who else could be working on the new game is just a guess. There are often concept artists working at game developers and unless they also work as graphics designers they would have no work to do anymore. I also assume there are a few more specialists who have not much to do in TFP anymore and also work part time on the new game as well. Maybe Animators, as bandit animation is largely the same as player animation. Probably a lot of the graphics designers changed over as well as not many new graphics will be needed for the rest of the work.
Click to expand...
so maybe an actual developer should speak on these things?
You do this a lot...you speak as if you have the knowledge, then back paddle with "i am not on the team...I don't actually know...I just think so"
 
meganoth said:
Very important info first: I am not part of TPF, I am a volunteer moderator, I have no knowledge of the inside of TFP at all except what their developers have posted here.

Next, I was partly speaking in general terms about game development and making the point about all bigger development companies following such a pipelining approach to game development. Nothing new and it makes sense, saves money and time. It is also much safer for a company when the next game isn't as many years away when one game turns out to be a dud.

Now, what we here on the forum know about graphics design of bandits for example is that it seems to be finished. This was done at the same time as the player armor redesign, the bandits will likely wear the same armor as we do. Sound? No idea.

If bandits wear the same armor it follows you can already look at bandits if you want, just play multiplayer or call up your character page ;)

What we also know is that bandits AI is not finished yet, Faatal was telling us lately about advances he made with the AI.

Coders for the next game: Everything AFAIK and certainly not verified, likely with errors: TFP is working on 2 games. One is contract work for some publisher and it is done by newly hired guys in the unreal engine. The other will be done in this engine, will likely use most of the code used for 7d2d and so far the only one I know for sure who is working on that is madmole, as game designer.

Who else could be working on the new game is just a guess. There are often concept artists working at game developers and unless they also work as graphics designers they would have no work to do anymore. I also assume there are a few more specialists who have not much to do in TFP anymore and also work part time on the new game as well. Maybe Animators, as bandit animation is largely the same as player animation. Probably a lot of the graphics designers changed over as well as not many new graphics will be needed for the rest of the work.
Click to expand...
I'm going to assume your reply is accurate. It still leaves some problems with me. If it is the AI work that needs to get done according to Faatal why don't they hire more help in this area? Considering they have wanted to add bandits in the game for several years now, it seems like a good idea. If it is a lack of funds is the issue, how do they have funds to hire AI developers for the zombies in the other game they are working on? Based off the trailer they provided for the other game (Blood Moons I believe it is called) they have done work on zombie pathing and AI.
 
HammerDano said:
so maybe an actual developer should speak on these things?
You do this a lot...you speak as if you have the knowledge, then back paddle with "i am not on the team...I don't actually know...I just think so"
Click to expand...
The devs don't have to explain how they do things to us if they don't want to. Faatal does answer a lot of questions about how things work behind the scenes already. But having them explain who is working on the other games doesn't change anything. So what if you know this person or that person is working on the other games?

fudoyusei327 said:
I'm going to assume your reply is accurate. It still leaves some problems with me. If it is the AI work that needs to get done according to Faatal why don't they hire more help in this area? Considering they have wanted to add bandits in the game for several years now, it seems like a good idea. If it is a lack of funds is the issue, how do they have funds to hire AI developers for the zombies in the other game they are working on? Based off the trailer they provided for the other game (Blood Moons I believe it is called) they have done work on zombie pathing and AI.
Click to expand...
There is more to AI than just AI. Other things need to be done as well. Faatal has commented in the past about things they had to do to improve the game for the AI to be improved. He also pointed out that bandits were changed to be in 3.0 and so were not worked on while working on the other things for 1.0 and 2.0. Hiring more people doesn't mean things get done faster if other things have priority. It also can complicate matters. Having one person working on a specific thing is easier than multiple people trying to work on it when you are doing programming. Most of the time with programming, different people work on different things, even if similar. You don't tell 5 graphic designers to make a single piece of armor. They'll just be in each other's way. You also often don't tell 5 graphics designers to each make their own armor because the style may vary too much. So you'll often have one focus on armor while another focuses on vehicles and another focuses on weapons and so on. Regarding AI, it is very likely that they have one person who works on the main parts of AI and maybe have a couple others who will do very specific things related to the AI but will not work on the main part of the AI.

Now, as with meganoth's post, this is just the general way software development works. Whether or not TFP follows this method is unknown. But it is very likely that they do. It wouldn't have taken them much time to realize that multiple people doing one thing becomes a mess.

Regardless, they've been doing this long enough that I am sure they can make appropriate decisions on hiring practices. Just be patient. Once issues with 2.x are dealt with, they'll be fully focused on 3.0 (bandits).
 
Riamus said:
The devs don't have to explain how they do things to us if they don't want to. Faatal does answer a lot of questions about how things work behind the scenes already. But having them explain who is working on the other games doesn't change anything. So what if you know this person or that person is working on the other games?

Regardless, they've been doing this long enough that I am sure they can make appropriate decisions on hiring practices. Just be patient. Once issues with 2.x are dealt with, they'll be fully focused on 3.0 (bandits).
Click to expand...
This thread IS called the Dev's Diary. Which isn't really accurate is it? A few employees that get called "devs" post here...but, they are not who I would call THE DEVS...that remains the leadership...the Brothers and Lathan.

****I do not want individual people named. The few employees who post here choose to speak of what they work on.
 
Riamus said:
The devs don't have to explain how they do things to us if they don't want to. Faatal does answer a lot of questions about how things work behind the scenes already. But having them explain who is working on the other games doesn't change anything. So what if you know this person or that person is working on the other games?


There is more to AI than just AI. Other things need to be done as well. Faatal has commented in the past about things they had to do to improve the game for the AI to be improved. He also pointed out that bandits were changed to be in 3.0 and so were not worked on while working on the other things for 1.0 and 2.0. Hiring more people doesn't mean things get done faster if other things have priority. It also can complicate matters. Having one person working on a specific thing is easier than multiple people trying to work on it when you are doing programming. Most of the time with programming, different people work on different things, even if similar. You don't tell 5 graphic designers to make a single piece of armor. They'll just be in each other's way. You also often don't tell 5 graphics designers to each make their own armor because the style may vary too much. So you'll often have one focus on armor while another focuses on vehicles and another focuses on weapons and so on. Regarding AI, it is very likely that they have one person who works on the main parts of AI and maybe have a couple others who will do very specific things related to the AI but will not work on the main part of the AI.

Now, as with meganoth's post, this is just the general way software development works. Whether or not TFP follows this method is unknown. But it is very likely that they do. It wouldn't have taken them much time to realize that multiple people doing one thing becomes a mess.

Regardless, they've been doing this long enough that I am sure they can make appropriate decisions on hiring practices. Just be patient. Once issues with 2.x are dealt with, they'll be fully focused on 3.0 (bandits).
Click to expand...
The main part at the bottom is what really gets me. We have told they have been working on putting bandits into the game since pre 1.0. We've been told to "just wait until the next alpha" multiple times. It just seems weird to be told that and have that be a major development point for 3 years plus and have it still not be in the game. The messaging has not been done well. That's not getting into delayed timelines for core features in the game.
 
I have two questions, but will only ask the first for now. Because the answer may answer both.

Other than the map sizes, what are the other options/choices that put the game in modded mode
so that cross play is not available?
 
HammerDano said:
so maybe an actual developer should speak on these things?
Click to expand...

Sure. I can't make them though.

HammerDano said:
You do this a lot...you speak as if you have the knowledge, then back paddle with "i am not on the team...I don't actually know...I just think so"
Click to expand...

I do have knowledge, about programming generally and game development. And I have knowledge about this game, but some of it is hearsay, conjecture or even outdated.

And because of the moderator flag I also get often misjudged as being an employee of TFP and I have to add a disclaimer once in a while. When I accepted the moderator "job" Roland told me this would happen.
 
HammerDano said:
A few employees that get called "devs" post here...but, they are not who I would call THE DEVS...that remains the leadership...the Brothers and Lathan.
Click to expand...
Did...did you just imply that faatal isn't a main developer of the game? Your ignorance is honestly borderline impressive at this point. And I'm not even sure Joel has much to do with this game anymore. He certainly never pops in here like he used to. He was usually more of the concept/gameplay type so I'd assume he'd be one of the first to start on another game.
 
HammerDano said:
This thread IS called the Dev's Diary. Which isn't really accurate is it? A few employees that get called "devs" post here...but, they are not who I would call THE DEVS...that remains the leadership...the Brothers and Lathan.

****I do not want individual people named. The few employees who post here choose to speak of what they work on.
Click to expand...
Having a Dev Diary at all isn't necessary, btw. No one has to say anything to us, but they do, even if it's just a select few.
 
bdubyah said:
Did...did you just imply that faatal isn't a main developer of the game? Your ignorance is honestly borderline impressive at this point. And I'm not even sure Joel has much to do with this game anymore. He certainly never pops in here like he used to. He was usually more of the concept/gameplay type so I'd assume he'd be one of the first to start on another game.
Click to expand...
I remember when joel updated his YouTube channel and it was always a treat too see new content and concepts
 
fudoyusei327 said:
I'm going to assume your reply is accurate. It still leaves some problems with me. If it is the AI work that needs to get done according to Faatal why don't they hire more help in this area? Considering they have wanted to add bandits in the game for several years now, it seems like a good idea. If it is a lack of funds is the issue, how do they have funds to hire AI developers for the zombies in the other game they are working on? Based off the trailer they provided for the other game (Blood Moons I believe it is called) they have done work on zombie pathing and AI.
Click to expand...

They actually hired another programmer some time ago. I think he was to do the bandit AI and he started with programming the drone. It seemed to take a long time for the drone to work, but anything at TFP takes a year to work, right? ;). This is all I know. I don't know if he still is with TFP, I don't know if he still works on AI stuff.I know that at a minimum Faatal works on AI, with a chance that that other guy works on it as well.

But putting more programmers on the same job is not always beneficial. One thing is the lead time to get anyone acquainted on the existing code, the more there is of it, the more time new programmers need to start work. More importantly, there are diminishing returns as ever more programmers need more oversight, more coordination. You know how in big companies people hardly can work because they constantly are in meetings? Programming needs A LOT OF coordination.
Another thing is: The bigger a company gets the less that company feels like a family and the more like an assembly line, I think this may be one reason they keep the company or at least the dev teams relatively small.

Blood Moons. I am kind of confused where exactly it fits in. I first had the impression this was just another developer that had asked TFP for a licence to their game to make a somewhat similar game. Very much like how Telltale worked with TFP.
So the only link would be friendly help from TFP sometimes and some revenue percentage flowing back. Now I have a dim memory of someone recently saying those two companies are tied closer, but I don't remember who said it or any details. So maybe TFP people have been working on bloodmoon, who knows? One thing I am sure of, no developer posting here ever said anything about himself working on blood moon at the moment. But that tells us very little.
 
Last edited:
bdubyah said:
Did...did you just imply that faatal isn't a main developer of the game? Your ignorance is honestly borderline impressive at this point. And I'm not even sure Joel has much to do with this game anymore. He certainly never pops in here like he used to. He was usually more of the concept/gameplay type so I'd assume he'd be one of the first to start on another game.
Click to expand...
Poor wording aside, he is clearly just wondering why the original Pimps don't comment here anymore, at all, for at least two years. I wonder that myself.
 
PS: Just looked at the steam page of Blood Moons. And yes, Blood Moons seems to be co-operatively developed by both TFP and Illogika, which seems to have this game as their first project.
Post automatically merged:

NoMan said:
Poor wording aside, he is clearly just wondering why the original Pimps don't comment here anymore, at all, for at least two years. I wonder that myself.
Click to expand...

I have been here since A15 and all I remember is Madmole. Has his brother ever posted here? Has Lathan? I know them only from the videos they made when a new alpha came out
 
bdubyah said:
Did...did you just imply that faatal isn't a main developer of the game? Your ignorance is honestly borderline impressive at this point. And I'm not even sure Joel has much to do with this game anymore. He certainly never pops in here like he used to. He was usually more of the concept/gameplay type so I'd assume he'd be one of the first to start on another game.
Click to expand...
I am saying that he is an employee. Joel, Rick and Lathan do the DEV STREAMS
 
meganoth said:
Sure. I can't make them though.



I do have knowledge, about programming generally and game development. And I have knowledge about this game, but some of it is hearsay, conjecture or even outdated.

And because of the moderator flag I also get often misjudged as being an employee of TFP and I have to add a disclaimer once in a while. When I accepted the moderator "job" Roland told me this would happen.
Click to expand...
agreed...you cannot make them post.

how useful is that knowledge when you are being asked specifics about THIS game and you are speaking in generalities? with no inside information? It just serves to chill conversations/complaints (imo).

That probably is annoying sometimes. It does not change my question, "so maybe an actual developer should speak on these things?", it reaffirms it.
Post automatically merged:

EvilPolygons said:
Everyone who works on the development team is a developer. You are confusing "dev" with "owner." Perhaps English isn't your first language? That would explain why you seem to be unaware of what "developer" means in English.
Click to expand...
so the term developer is an overused participation reward? wonderful
They are employees, you can give them a shmancy title, but, they still are just employees.
 
HammerDano said:
so the term developer is an overused participation reward? wonderful
They are employees, you can give them a shmancy title, but, they still are just employees.
Click to expand...
Ok.... so is doctor an overused participation award because the hospital owners are the ones in charge? What about teacher? Or any other job title. That doesn't even make sense. A developer is a job title. It is someone who works on developing software (yes, it can also refer to other kinds of developers unrelated to software as well). It does not mean owner even if the owner may also be a developer. If you want to refer to the owners, then say owners. If you say developer (or dev), it refers to every dev on the team.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top