At least for public servers, I think the lack of available loot would be a problem.
You've Stripped the Soul Out of 7 Days to Die
- Thread starter Annihilatorza
- Start date
binf_shinana
Refugee
To be explicit, this is multiplayer "on an open server."
This is because a problem that often occurred in older versions, where someone would steal all the treasure chests at POIs around town, has recurred. This still occurs in the current version, but the person who starts the quest has a guaranteed chance to obtain it (unless someone else joins in).
This problem could be solved by shortening the time it takes for placed items to respawn, but then it would be no different to having a quest in place.
Riamus
Hunter
If the servers are resetting chunks regularly, it should be fine. But I also don't use servers as I find it is more enjoyable to play with someone I know.
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That is the cost of playing on a server like that. If I wanted to play on a public server, I would try it and see how the other players were. If they did that, I would find another. If they are all like that, I wouldn't use a public server.
I've spent not a second playing mulitplayer. But unless you're resetting chunks every hour or two, I'd think you'd have instances where someone new would join and find everything near spawn looted, and would likely end up instantly quitting.
Riamus
Hunter
If you are playing on a server that sticks to the player count that the game supports (8 players max at once), that shouldn't be a problem as long as you have spawn points spread out. After all, I've played 7 or 8 players on P2P with all of us in one place and there wasn't an issue with loot being wiped out even when we were just scavenging and not doing quests. If you're playing on a server that doesn't stick to the supported player count, well, then you need to use mods if you want to balance things because TFP isn't going to balance things for more than 8 players.
JaxTeller718
Survivor
Sylen, I love you and have always respected you and your work here and for this community and game and i by no means post this with intentions of disrespect, but I had to come out of retirement from interacting here to say this reason is complete ■■■■■■■s.
There has been nothing but fancy art and upgrades added to this game that made it almost unplayable at times, not to mention the stuttering backpack opening etc. That only now seems to be in motion of getting controlled.
You already HAVE alienated a large part of the player base, years ago and now it seems even more. The new players are mostly casual, which is fine, everyone should enjoy this amazing game that was built, but its obvious this alpha even those are trailing off now to other games in this genre that explore new mechanics and innovations. Smell was fine, and cause no slowdowns pre 16. Its everything thrown at this game, 90 percent of it art and assets, that are weighing down the game.
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I personally would love if there was an in game mod menu, where you add 100 mods, then select with a checkmark what you do and dont want to add in each play. this would include modders adding options to each of their modlets, for example my plant timer mod has 360 minute. you could select the timer yourself in the menu.
Working with modders to achieve this would be ideal but definitely not in the cards. Understandable they have bigger fish to fry.
SylenThunder
Community Moderator / IT Guru
I agree 1000% I was extremely miffed to discover this myself. One day when I have a lot of free time, I will probably write a full mod just for this.
Why not set things like the smell system as an option that has to be enabled and put a pop-up on the screen when the player fully loads in that reads (for example)
"Server Setting: Smell System is ENABLED on this server. If you're experiencing stability or playability issues, disabling this is suggest for players with hardware below (insert rec specs here)"
Set it so it ONLY pops up if the setting is enable and the player or server specs are close to threshold that issues seem to be appear, you could also add a notice in that pop-up that, sometime updating drivers can help. And not to have it pop-up at all if the system & server are both at optimum or higher specs.
I even wonder if a lot of the things that have been removed could be made as optional, with the default being OFF, instead of outright removing things.
I am coming back with the 2.0 release and I'm ok with it so far, I'm also not far either as I'm experimenting with getting a group together again so I'm just in the "goofing off" mode right now. I guess I'll follow the template started by OP for my more detailed thoughts on their thoughts and add mine in beyond that mixed in. I'll certainly have more in a couple weeks when the group has all be together for some solid playtime again.
1) I feel like that is a lot of what the implied playstyle is for what I've been exposed to since I got into the game around August of last year. So I'm guessing my chaotic exploration mode is why I haven't felt hampered by the trader's quests. Or maybe it is that I like the hunting of zombies and trying to clear cut the entire map and level every building more than the trader's quests.
2) Removed
-Custom armor slots loss is big loss. I miss the way I used to have it with all the slots and colors. I was assuming it was unlocked later, based on what I've read it is just largely gone now.
-Farming in soil, I understand the explanation's I've read. I wonder if making an option to enable (like the smell system I started this post with) and putting similar warning about how it effects performance so it is still there vs just removed.
-Worldgen variety, I'm simply always a fan of more of it and don't have the hours in to determine my thoughts on how much was removed. I can only say that I always love variety for replayability
3)---
4) I think I share the same opinion that default shouldn't feel like the equivalent of 'easy' in a lot of other games.
5)---
6) I would love to see a way where stats on armor balanced against each other of the same level/tier, and what takes them above the stat total is skills and amount of experience gained in that classification of armor. I want more mods for weapons and armor, and much more diversity in the mods. Imagine adding a chance to do a point blank shotgun blast when hitting with your heavy axe.
-I also think that you should be able to attempt a craft if you don't have the magazine but just have a failure rate that slowly goes down until you've made it a couple times successfully and then you get awarded a book as a reward for doing it so you can get the book and the reduced cost and removal of failure chance for having done it.
OP's Final Thoughts--My take on it
-Failure should be an option, not just running out of hit points to die. I feel the badges are a creative way to try to throttle play to also give rewards.
-Trying and failing but giving a path to progress at a more expensive cost, but with a reward for doing it would amazing.
-Fog is annoying, if it is part of a weather event that's supposed to be risky, make it risky and if we want to change a setting to scale it let us have that option.
-Loot Cap per biome is just eww when it isn't an RPG/MMO/LooterShooter styles of games. I do understand certain materials linked to zones, that's logical.
-Badges need to be in the server creation options to be able to be disabled. If that means until a certain level each biome is more risky, that's awesome. Example, If you go into the snow at lvl 7 you take a multiplier of increased damage and more stamina use and many other ways until the player has gotten stronger enough to overcome those penalties.
My Final thoughts:
-I think a lot of quality creative effort went into this update and there was a lot of love, with probably a few office arguments, because of the passion for this game. I am grateful and want to make sure to say that. I worry feedback without appreciation is the standard these days. I don't like that. Please keep being passionate about trying new things, being ok with being wrong sometimes, and pushing to keep making it better. The summary of my concerns are simply that if things become too streamlined with risk minimized and a "proper" way to play a sandbox game, is a path to make it no longer a sandbox game and to turn into what we see with so many other games. I always remember the times I barely succeed or barely fail, not the times that it just works out on auto pilot. I want more of those experiences and options to adjust those thresholds for the group I'm playing with at the time. I think that's what ya'll want too, as devs and as gamers yourselves.
(PS: I'm autistic and I'm sure that's obvious at this point, I just ask if I missed an error in grammar or made a poor word choice, you bear with me. I used voice to text for this as it is much easier for me. And no, I didn't think I had this many thoughts lol)
"Server Setting: Smell System is ENABLED on this server. If you're experiencing stability or playability issues, disabling this is suggest for players with hardware below (insert rec specs here)"
Set it so it ONLY pops up if the setting is enable and the player or server specs are close to threshold that issues seem to be appear, you could also add a notice in that pop-up that, sometime updating drivers can help. And not to have it pop-up at all if the system & server are both at optimum or higher specs.
I even wonder if a lot of the things that have been removed could be made as optional, with the default being OFF, instead of outright removing things.
I am coming back with the 2.0 release and I'm ok with it so far, I'm also not far either as I'm experimenting with getting a group together again so I'm just in the "goofing off" mode right now. I guess I'll follow the template started by OP for my more detailed thoughts on their thoughts and add mine in beyond that mixed in. I'll certainly have more in a couple weeks when the group has all be together for some solid playtime again.
1) I feel like that is a lot of what the implied playstyle is for what I've been exposed to since I got into the game around August of last year. So I'm guessing my chaotic exploration mode is why I haven't felt hampered by the trader's quests. Or maybe it is that I like the hunting of zombies and trying to clear cut the entire map and level every building more than the trader's quests.
2) Removed
-Custom armor slots loss is big loss. I miss the way I used to have it with all the slots and colors. I was assuming it was unlocked later, based on what I've read it is just largely gone now.
-Farming in soil, I understand the explanation's I've read. I wonder if making an option to enable (like the smell system I started this post with) and putting similar warning about how it effects performance so it is still there vs just removed.
-Worldgen variety, I'm simply always a fan of more of it and don't have the hours in to determine my thoughts on how much was removed. I can only say that I always love variety for replayability
3)---
4) I think I share the same opinion that default shouldn't feel like the equivalent of 'easy' in a lot of other games.
5)---
6) I would love to see a way where stats on armor balanced against each other of the same level/tier, and what takes them above the stat total is skills and amount of experience gained in that classification of armor. I want more mods for weapons and armor, and much more diversity in the mods. Imagine adding a chance to do a point blank shotgun blast when hitting with your heavy axe.
-I also think that you should be able to attempt a craft if you don't have the magazine but just have a failure rate that slowly goes down until you've made it a couple times successfully and then you get awarded a book as a reward for doing it so you can get the book and the reduced cost and removal of failure chance for having done it.
OP's Final Thoughts--My take on it
-Failure should be an option, not just running out of hit points to die. I feel the badges are a creative way to try to throttle play to also give rewards.
-Trying and failing but giving a path to progress at a more expensive cost, but with a reward for doing it would amazing.
-Fog is annoying, if it is part of a weather event that's supposed to be risky, make it risky and if we want to change a setting to scale it let us have that option.
-Loot Cap per biome is just eww when it isn't an RPG/MMO/LooterShooter styles of games. I do understand certain materials linked to zones, that's logical.
-Badges need to be in the server creation options to be able to be disabled. If that means until a certain level each biome is more risky, that's awesome. Example, If you go into the snow at lvl 7 you take a multiplier of increased damage and more stamina use and many other ways until the player has gotten stronger enough to overcome those penalties.
My Final thoughts:
-I think a lot of quality creative effort went into this update and there was a lot of love, with probably a few office arguments, because of the passion for this game. I am grateful and want to make sure to say that. I worry feedback without appreciation is the standard these days. I don't like that. Please keep being passionate about trying new things, being ok with being wrong sometimes, and pushing to keep making it better. The summary of my concerns are simply that if things become too streamlined with risk minimized and a "proper" way to play a sandbox game, is a path to make it no longer a sandbox game and to turn into what we see with so many other games. I always remember the times I barely succeed or barely fail, not the times that it just works out on auto pilot. I want more of those experiences and options to adjust those thresholds for the group I'm playing with at the time. I think that's what ya'll want too, as devs and as gamers yourselves.
(PS: I'm autistic and I'm sure that's obvious at this point, I just ask if I missed an error in grammar or made a poor word choice, you bear with me. I used voice to text for this as it is much easier for me. And no, I didn't think I had this many thoughts lol)
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Kosmic Kerman
Scavenger
I really don't understand people's attachment to smell. Why would freshly slaughtered meat attract zombies more than the unwashed survivor? People act like Smell was removed just to ■■■■ them off rather than it got left on the cutting room floor when non-performant systems were refactored. Every feature has a cost. It takes developer time to code and costs CPU cycles to run. There will inevitably been trade offs any time a feature/system is refactored. Everyone acts like all TFP has to do is wave a magic wand and the game will run at a gazillion frames with a gazillion zombies on screen.
JaxTeller718
Survivor
Those of us that enjoy how older alphas played, or like the immersion, enjoyed it. It happens in zombie media like Walking Dead all the time, zombies smell should be FIRST of their senses to tingle which is why they spread dead guts on themselves to walk among them. The scent.I really don't understand people's attachment to smell. Why would freshly slaughtered meat attract zombies more than the unwashed survivor? People act like Smell was removed just tothem off rather than it got left on the cutting room floor when non-performant systems were refactored. Every feature has a cost. It takes developer time to code and costs CPU cycles to run. There will inevitably been trade offs any time a feature/system is refactored. Everyone acts like all TFP has to do is wave a magic wand and the game will run at a gazillion frames with a gazillion zombies on screen.
I do agree with a post above that their should be an option like feral sense for those who do not like it though.
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Oh man you write that mod I am there! Thanks for the response.
Slingblade2040
Scavenger
Rather some of the usual overly protective folks of the team like it or not many features that made this game popular have been removed and the game has been dumbed down to the point at what made this game great and popular are no longer around. These folks will say oh look at steam charts or some other nonsense like sales while not being able to see how many use mods on PC or the fact players on console had to repurchase this game.
We used to need water for crops it got removed, we used to be able to till soil and plant crops almost anywhere and it got removed, used to be press E harvest plant and it would regrow not anymore its punch plant pray for seed, we cant make fertilizer to increase yields instead we use magic armor and special abilities for that. Now its craft farm plot, plant seed, wear magic armor and invest points into special abilities to get better yields and some seeds.
Ranged weapons used to have parts and degrade after repairs meaning you had a reason to loot or keep parts for proper maintenance of weapons which also gave an incentive to loot. Now its dumbed down to permanent quality with no parts just the whole weapon. Armor and melee also degraded the same way now its just permanent quality with no worries of it dropping.
Weather actually had an affect on you which you could combat through clothing.If it rained you got wet. Now water is no longer wet. Got hot? Wear clothes that helps cool you down or take a dip in a body of water. Got cold? Make a campfire or wear clothing that warms you up. Now you arent affected by being hot, cold or wet. You get a debuff. Do you know how stupid it is to be in a biome that is cold and the game telling you that you are freezing and a camp fire or standing inside the camp fire doesnt warm you up? Or being in a desert at night and over heating? Want to solve those issues now? Drink a magical smoothie that fixes being cold because actual fire cant do that for some ridiculous reason.
Aside from the obvious need for food and water cooking meals or making better drinks actually had an affect on your characters overall wellbeing by helping increase max stamina and health. It gave some kind of incentive to cook better meals or drinks and actually have a farm to make better meals or drinks for that reason also. Now there is no incentive to cook or make drinks since they offer no real benefits, they are easily available from the trader and the magic restocking vending machines. All you need are some dukes and your problems for food and hunger are solved. Food and drinks offer no actual permanent benefits and give the player no reason to ever consider making meals or drinks.
We went from use certain weapons or tools to get better at them so you use less stamina and do more damage while you use them to kill zombies, gain level, put points into special abilities and done. Yes we used to get levels and be able to put points into perks the same way but we had other more important perks we could use those points on. We had the choice of either use the items to get better at them and level them that way or spend points to improve them while ignoring others that could offer more benefits like sexual tyrannsaosaurus for better stamina. Now we dont gain any skills by using items and its only gain level spend points.
The game has been dumbed down and to some extent made worse with many features that made it gain popularity being removed. Folks who can't understand why people are upset over so many bad changes wont know because this is what they are used to. They don't want complex mechanics, immersive gameplay or a proper progression system. These folks want easy dumbed down go to trader, get quest, kill zombie, loot dungeon chest and done with no thought process being done. Just simple and dumbed down A,B and C.
We used to need water for crops it got removed, we used to be able to till soil and plant crops almost anywhere and it got removed, used to be press E harvest plant and it would regrow not anymore its punch plant pray for seed, we cant make fertilizer to increase yields instead we use magic armor and special abilities for that. Now its craft farm plot, plant seed, wear magic armor and invest points into special abilities to get better yields and some seeds.
Ranged weapons used to have parts and degrade after repairs meaning you had a reason to loot or keep parts for proper maintenance of weapons which also gave an incentive to loot. Now its dumbed down to permanent quality with no parts just the whole weapon. Armor and melee also degraded the same way now its just permanent quality with no worries of it dropping.
Weather actually had an affect on you which you could combat through clothing.If it rained you got wet. Now water is no longer wet. Got hot? Wear clothes that helps cool you down or take a dip in a body of water. Got cold? Make a campfire or wear clothing that warms you up. Now you arent affected by being hot, cold or wet. You get a debuff. Do you know how stupid it is to be in a biome that is cold and the game telling you that you are freezing and a camp fire or standing inside the camp fire doesnt warm you up? Or being in a desert at night and over heating? Want to solve those issues now? Drink a magical smoothie that fixes being cold because actual fire cant do that for some ridiculous reason.
Aside from the obvious need for food and water cooking meals or making better drinks actually had an affect on your characters overall wellbeing by helping increase max stamina and health. It gave some kind of incentive to cook better meals or drinks and actually have a farm to make better meals or drinks for that reason also. Now there is no incentive to cook or make drinks since they offer no real benefits, they are easily available from the trader and the magic restocking vending machines. All you need are some dukes and your problems for food and hunger are solved. Food and drinks offer no actual permanent benefits and give the player no reason to ever consider making meals or drinks.
We went from use certain weapons or tools to get better at them so you use less stamina and do more damage while you use them to kill zombies, gain level, put points into special abilities and done. Yes we used to get levels and be able to put points into perks the same way but we had other more important perks we could use those points on. We had the choice of either use the items to get better at them and level them that way or spend points to improve them while ignoring others that could offer more benefits like sexual tyrannsaosaurus for better stamina. Now we dont gain any skills by using items and its only gain level spend points.
The game has been dumbed down and to some extent made worse with many features that made it gain popularity being removed. Folks who can't understand why people are upset over so many bad changes wont know because this is what they are used to. They don't want complex mechanics, immersive gameplay or a proper progression system. These folks want easy dumbed down go to trader, get quest, kill zombie, loot dungeon chest and done with no thought process being done. Just simple and dumbed down A,B and C.
InfiniteWarrior
Scavenger
Bethesda purchased the Fallout IP and it's first venture with the franchise did very well. Oh, there were things to criticize, like the horrible writing, but it did very well because obscene and exploitative greed, centralization and homogenization hadn't yet taken over the industry. Since, Fallout has been "mainstreamed" and monetized to the point that most everything that made people fall in love with the setting and franchise in the first palce, as Noah Gervais put it, has been lost. Especially the iconography has been largely stripped of any and all of its original meaning in a vested effort to try not to offend anyone while iconic enemies and factions are just recycled over and and over again. (76 actually tried to break from that tradition and come up with all new factions but for the Enclave until marketing stepped in.)
That's been a sea change in the industry itself and a lot of developers, perhaps especially younger ones, either don't know how to develop a game any differently or literally can't due to corporate constraints. It's all they've ever known. It's lamentable, but trying to reach an ever larger audience (and their pocketbooks), whether a conscious decision or not in individual cases, is what the industry itself is all about now.
I'd have to agree, even as relatively new player (or tester, since I rarely play it), that TFP are making their game as generic as every other game on the market. I don't understand that decision and don't get the impression it's out of a conscious effort to harm or exploit anyone. It's just "the way things are" and, at least according to Margaret Thatcher, "there is no alternative."