V3.0.0 b259 EXP Update

Not being able to get quests until completing the tutorial quest has been that way a long time... I think all the way back since when they changed to doing challenges for the tutorial. But if they never get that tutorial quest just because they did a shared quest first, that may be a new bug, or is one that has been there all along. Were they entirely unable to complete the tutorial challenges and turn them in and get that initial buried supplies quest? Did they cancel that quest? I'm wondering if it's user error or a bug.

I regret I do not know. I don't have the ability to look at their screen and they're so new they have a hard time explaining their situation. I wasn't aware that you had to complete the tutorial challenges since I always knock those out at start, so it could be a factor.

I've been thinking there are some things that stand in the way of the tutorial. It is easy to ignore, specially if there are other players saying "we're over here." They sometimes have trouble finding things like stones and give up. I found one punching a tree instead of gathering sticks. If they're joining a server it could easily be during the night or on some later day.

I sometimes wonder if perhaps when a new player spawns if the game might just drop 10 stones and a few bird nests around them in some reasonable radius.
 
Oh, so you have the theory that when more option requests are posted TFP is forced to implement more options? Just like in concress elections where the more people vote and the more people are nominated they have to put more chairs into the congress hall, right? ;)
It is not a theory.

A “small option” is rarely just a checkbox. Every sandbox option has to be wired into game prefs, UI, save data, multiplayer sync, server config, edge cases, testing, and future compatibility. That is exactly how minor-looking systems become long-term maintenance problems.

The "jar" situation is the clearest example. Something that sounds simple on the surface ended up costing TFP a major amount of development time and effectively set them back an entire alpha cycle. That is the kind of thing I am talking about.

I am not saying player requests are bad. I am saying the timing matters. When core systems are still throwing serious issues, adding more toggles and special-case sandbox options increases the test matrix and creates more places for things to break.

So no, I am not suggesting TFP is “forced” by votes like a congress seat count. I am saying that every added option has engineering cost, QA cost, support cost, and regression risk. My concern is that the current focus should stay on stabilizing the core systems before expanding the sandbox menu further.
 
I regret I do not know. I don't have the ability to look at their screen and they're so new they have a hard time explaining their situation. I wasn't aware that you had to complete the tutorial challenges since I always knock those out at start, so it could be a factor.

I've been thinking there are some things that stand in the way of the tutorial. It is easy to ignore, specially if there are other players saying "we're over here." They sometimes have trouble finding things like stones and give up. I found one punching a tree instead of gathering sticks. If they're joining a server it could easily be during the night or on some later day.

I sometimes wonder if perhaps when a new player spawns if the game might just drop 10 stones and a few bird nests around them in some reasonable radius.
Makes sense. And, yeah... the issue with completing the initial tutorial buried supplies quest has been around since the beginning of those. It was a problem for some non-RWG maps that didn't provide enough wilderness space around a trader (such as mega city maps) because without enough space, they couldn't even get that quest and then couldn't get any other quests because of it. I just don't know if completing shared quests first will break it entirely.
 
Sticks? ... STICKS?? :oops::unsure:

Should I have said shrubs, instead? They didn't know the brown leaf-less things in the grass, or the green leafy shrub, would give them what they wanted. They assumed only a tree would do that. Yes, even with the hint icon feature, because this was after they had entered the game and either completed the intro challenges and forgot, or somehow dismissed the intro challenges.
 
So no, I am not suggesting TFP is “forced” by votes like a congress seat count. I am saying that every added option has engineering cost, QA cost, support cost, and regression risk. My concern is that the current focus should stay on stabilizing the core systems before expanding the sandbox menu further.
No one is disputing that. They are disputing the notion that you seem to have that JUST because people are suggesting new options, that it's going to eat up valuable dev time (see below). It's not, because suggestions ≠ dev work.
My main concern like i stated before the thread got side railed is I am concerned about the ongoing requests for sandbox additions that people are making before the core systems are fixed.
TFP specifically asked the player base to keep the suggestions coming because they want to know what players want. Some suggestions could come next month. They could come next year. The point is that there is no sense in telling players to stop submitting suggestions because doing so isn't going to magically speed up development.
 
No one is disputing that. They are disputing the notion that you seem to have that JUST because people are suggesting new options, that it's going to eat up valuable dev time (see below). It's not, because suggestions ≠ dev work.

TFP specifically asked the player base to keep the suggestions coming because they want to know what players want. Some suggestions could come next month. They could come next year. The point is that there is no sense in telling players to stop submitting suggestions because doing so isn't going to magically speed up development.
My position: fix bugs before chasing feature requests. Stabilize broken core systems before the sandbox menu grows further
and I'll be honest about the PvP frustration behind it:
PvP-critical systems have gone a decade+ with a lot of community feedback and comparatively little to show for it.
 
Should I have said shrubs, instead? They didn't know the brown leaf-less things in the grass, or the green leafy shrub, would give them what they wanted. They assumed only a tree would do that. Yes, even with the hint icon feature, because this was after they had entered the game and either completed the intro challenges and forgot, or somehow dismissed the intro challenges.
really? i would have thought the ugly glowing icons over every item that give the correct resource would be a super helpful way to see that the scrub could also give wood
 
really? i would have thought the ugly glowing icons over every item that give the correct resource would be a super helpful way to see that the scrub could also give wood

Me too, though you have to be at a step/stage and have that quest active, where those are revealed. I couldn't tell you what their situation was other than they were naked and punching a tree. It wasn't day 1. It wasn't their first day on the server either. Did they not learn? Did they not get that far into the tutorial to learn? Beats me.

Also, when it comes to stone, I have experienced myself that if you join a game near another player, they may have soaked up all of the stones and bird nests in the area, so you don't actually see any little icons.
 
Me too, though you have to be at a step/stage and have that quest active, where those are revealed. I couldn't tell you what their situation was other than they were naked and punching a tree. It wasn't day 1. It wasn't their first day on the server either. Did they not learn? Did they not get that far into the tutorial to learn? Beats me.

Also, when it comes to stone, I have experienced myself that if you join a game near another player, they may have soaked up all of the stones and bird nests in the area, so you don't actually see any little icons.
totally fair
 
It is not a theory.

A “small option” is rarely just a checkbox. Every sandbox option has to be wired into game prefs, UI, save data, multiplayer sync, server config, edge cases, testing, and future compatibility. That is exactly how minor-looking systems become long-term maintenance problems.

Rarely? I would say it is the other way round: The majority of the new sandbox options is not a new feature as well and needed only xml changes to work. And xml does need neither multiplayer sync (because it gets already synced no matter how new it is) nor a server config. It surely needs UI changes and testing, but I'll bet that whoever does UI and definitely wohever does testing is not the guy who is in charge of the networking code.
Examples: Almost all the loot abundancy options in "Resources", "temperature survival", "crafting max quality", ...

From the rest a lot of options seem to manipulate data that was probably already availabe as variables in the code and needed only some code to expose that variable into xml so they can be manipulated from there. Again not something that needs multiplayer code or the network guys in my estimation.
Examples: "Vehicle Self Damage", "Electrical Output",

A few options actually seem to add new functionality and those could actually have needed the same guys you want for bugfixing your network code.
Examples: "Smelter type", "Tiny Zombies" "Workstations in the Wild"

The "jar" situation is the clearest example. Something that sounds simple on the surface ended up costing TFP a major amount of development time and effectively set them back an entire alpha cycle. That is the kind of thing I am talking about.

But the jars were actually a minor new feature (not only an option) among many other features that came with V2.5. And we don't know how much time they cost because there were lots of other changes as well in that update.

I am not saying player requests are bad. I am saying the timing matters. When core systems are still throwing serious issues, adding more toggles and special-case sandbox options increases the test matrix and creates more places for things to break.

So no, I am not suggesting TFP is “forced” by votes like a congress seat count. I am saying that every added option has engineering cost, QA cost, support cost, and regression risk. My concern is that the current focus should stay on stabilizing the core systems before expanding the sandbox menu further.

And like Syphon583 said asking users about options doesn't necessarily mean they'll add more options but that they can add those options that were asked for the most. Like congress, the seat number remains the same, but more voters show a more accurate picture of what the public wants.
 
Should I have said shrubs, instead? They didn't know the brown leaf-less things in the grass, or the green leafy shrub, would give them what they wanted. They assumed only a tree would do that. Yes, even with the hint icon feature, because this was after they had entered the game and either completed the intro challenges and forgot, or somehow dismissed the intro challenges.
Shrubs? ... SHRUBS?? 😐🤔 Just kidding!
 
@schwanz9000 It would be nice to see more loot settings: legendary parts, modifications, schematics, etc. Ability to customize quest rewards and random trader spawns.

Not sure how granular we'll go with things like that.
There is a very large wish list of stuff folks want to see options for. Not sure what will make it in or not.

@faatal The armor will have a magnitude system in the future?

No. I do not plan on adding boosted stats to armor since they are already on the cusp being too overpowered due to stacking issues with perks and items.
 
No. I do not plan on adding boosted stats to armor since they are already on the cusp being too overpowered due to stacking issues with perks and items.
As someone who has added higher tier armor, I feel that. Haha. But maybe it could just be used for the stats other than protection? Like stamina drain and mobility, though I guess that is a bit of work for not much noticeable gain.
 
That means the diamond blade tip mod is essentially useless. Since you can only craft it and can't loot it, you can only get it at Q1 which means it is outclassed by the tempered blade mod at Q2. It also exactly the same as the structural brace mod so its outclassed by that at Q2. So I'd say either remove it entirely, add it to loot, or make it craftable at different Q levels.

Added to loot and trader lists.
 
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