Honey, bees, apiary are too rare to be useful at any stage of the game

[crayzus]

The workstation that produces honey using bees isn't attainable enough to be of any use at pretty much any stage of the game. By the time you get enough Beeswax to craft the apiary you already have tons of antibiotics to where infections aren't an issue. This workstation doesn't seem to have any purpose the way this game is designed. Similar to the Dew station. There is no reason to go out of the way to craft it. There is some food with honey ingredients that fight infection but again, in the later stages infection pills are plentiful.

I think the recipes that use honey should give a stronger boost to stats other than fighting infections. Maybe we could have a new medicine that uses honey which provides a unique boost to our character. As it stands, honey is only helpful extremely early around days 1-3. We could use some mid to late game honey crafts.

 

[SabinSnake PS5#1]

The workstation that produces honey using bees isn't attainable enough to be of any use at pretty much any stage of the game. By the time you get enough Beeswax to craft the apiary you already have tons of antibiotics to where infections aren't an issue. This workstation doesn't seem to have any purpose the way this game is designed. Similar to the Dew station. There is no reason to go out of the way to craft it. There is some food with honey ingredients that fight infection but again, in the later stages infection pills are plentiful.

I think the recipes that use honey should give a stronger boost to stats other than fighting infections. Maybe we could have a new medicine that uses honey which provides a unique boost to our character. As it stands, honey is only helpful extremely early around days 1-3. We could use some mid to late game honey crafts.

As long as they're there for players to use as an option, why care that they exist at all? That's like saying "There's no reason to have physical games, since most people buy digital anyway" even though over 100 million people on the internet are fighting Sony to keep physical media relevant on console..

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

since most people buy digital anyway

Because they've been left with no other choice, one might add.

As for the apiary, I never saw much use for it either beyond the fact that live service games have everything from chicken coops to coffee machines to automated workstations for just about everything for one painfully obvious reason. I suppose they're nice (and a decent option to add) for people who want to establish a sim farm or something. Simulations aren't my thing, so I wouldn't know why they're so popular.

 

[murky water]

me and my boyfriend almost always set up base in the desert so apiary is something we can have up by day 5-6 even with the worst luck but i totally understand feeling that honey is a fairly early-game item and that looting can be a better option after the first blood moon has passed if you are willing to spec-in on lucky looter

 

[warmer]

Ya I don't get the Apiary at this point. It's a solution that is more trouble than it's worth right now. On my current playthrough I got the book that gives you a chance of getting honey when chopping down a tree + level 5 lucky looter and I have 24 honey stacked up by day 21. Granted I have only been infected 2x, but there is no reason for me to worry about antibiotics or an apiary.

 

[Kalen]

For me, its not about antibiotics... its about honey brisket. I want as much honey as I can get to make honey brisket. By midgame, thats the only food I need. No doubt the beeswax is a pain to get, but if you're dedicated to the cause it's not THAT bad. In my current 3.0 game, I've got 10 apiaries on day 60.

 

[Riamus]

I do agree that they should be easier to build earlier in the game, but they are still there for those who want to do a lot of stuff with honey. Just because I don't use much honey doesn't mean I think they are useless.

 

[Kyoji]

As long as they're there for players to use as an option, why care that they exist at all? That's like saying "There's no reason to have physical games, since most people buy digital anyway" even though over 100 million people on the internet are fighting Sony to keep physical media relevant on console..

I think he is suggesting some changes to make the apiary more worth it.

The dew collector is in a similar boat.

I think both have some use but that use is very limited and there are ways one could make each more viable within a vanilla game.

Lower on the priority for sure but still something that can be tweaked over time.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Yeah, i tried it once and will never use it again. At the point that i unlock it, i don´t use honey for infections anymore and i have enough stored for honey brisket. Also it´s easy to just buy it from the trader that late in game.

It´s way too late and way too slow unless honey gets more use in recipes/crafting. Either have it unlock earlier in game or really make it worth it in late game.

 

[Kyoji]

Not sure if people would like it or not but having rain and cold temperatures give a "cold" debuff that can be remedied with a honey concoction.

The debuff could last for a minimum of 1 days with a percentage chance of clearing on the second and third day and a garunteed chance of clearing of the 4th day or something to that effect.

You could also tie in honey with things like lacerations having a percentage chance of festering and require honey or time to cure.

 

[meganoth]

In my MP game with a friend we have only ~2 honey in the base and one apiary (and I think just found bees wax for a second). I don't know the day but I as INT player just got the ability to build motorbike and still can't build a chem station. And since we started this game a long time ago before apiaries even existed and play veeery seldom, we didn't even have bees wax in the game when we created the game.

I am grateful for the apiary because I almost never cut wood (I get wood from POIs) and maybe don't have the book with which I would get honey out of trees anyway. And infection rate seems high with only quality 2 armor at max.

Though the speed of honey generation seems veeery slow even with a smoker. By the way, does one need to fill all slots to make honey, or only one. And if the latter, does filling all slots speed up generation? I wanted to test this multiple times, but again and again forgot to check later.

 

[8_Hussars]

The workstation that produces honey using bees isn't attainable enough to be of any use at pretty much any stage of the game. By the time you get enough Beeswax to craft the apiary you already have tons of antibiotics to where infections aren't an issue.

Consider that not everyone plays the game the same way.

Players use different difficulty levels, loot settings, and world configurations. Some play with loot respawn enabled, others disable it. Some rely on quests that reset POIs, while others turn traders off entirely. There are countless combinations of settings and playstyles.

Just because a feature doesn't seem necessary from your perspective doesn't mean it isn't valuable to someone else's.

 

[crayzus]

Consider that not everyone plays the game the same way.

Players use different difficulty levels, loot settings, and world configurations. Some play with loot respawn enabled, others disable it. Some rely on quests that reset POIs, while others turn traders off entirely. There are countless combinations of settings and playstyles.

Just because a feature doesn't seem necessary from your perspective doesn't mean it isn't valuable to someone else's.

If you have everything set to default, the way the devs intend their game to be played honey is still useless. I understand for some people it helps in their custom settings worlds but for the standard game settings, it doesn't serve a purpose past day 3. I am hoping they can make some new uses for honey.

 

[Riamus]

If you have everything set to default, the way the devs intend their game to be played honey is still useless. I understand for some people it helps in their custom settings worlds but for the standard game settings, it doesn't serve a purpose past day 3. I am hoping they can make some new uses for honey.

Not really true. I don't personally have much use for it and I do think it should unlock earlier and not require so much beeswax (or beeswax should drop more often). However, there are plenty of people who get infected a LOT and use honey a LOT because of it. That means less chance of stockpiling it and less chance of having enough for food if they want to make honey food. I personally don't bother with stumps past the first few days, so my honey stockpile is almost non-existent. I also often don't have the book for honey from trees until at least mid game, if not later. So again, I don't have much honey in most games. Of course, the lack of going after stumps constantly also means I normally can't make an apiary early either, which is why I say it could use an earlier unlock and not need all that beeswax.

In any case, there are many players who do find it useful, so it's clearly not useless for everyone. Just for you and anyone who plays similarly to you.

The dew collector is in a similar boat.

I suppose that depends on settings. Since 3.0 lets you remove the empty jar requirement from them, they are worthwhile again. And especially with the increased capacity, you can use only 1-2 and have a LOT of water without any effort. If you do keep empty jars for "fuel" for them, then yes, they aren't really worth it except just as a convenience versus going out to fill jars. And since filling jars is much slower now, it is also more convenient to use the dew collectors.

 

[8_Hussars]

If you have everything set to default, the way the devs intend their game to be played honey is still useless. I understand for some people it helps in their custom settings worlds but for the standard game settings, it doesn't serve a purpose past day 3. I am hoping they can make some new uses for honey.

Just because the default settings are extremely easy doesn't mean that's the intended level of play. Those defaults were chosen to make the game more approachable and help new players get engaged.

The goal of 3.0 was to provide a broader range of built-in settings so sandbox play and other play styles are fully supported without relying on mods.

Again, consider that not everyone plays the game the same way.

 

[meganoth]

If you have everything set to default, the way the devs intend their game to be played honey is still useless. I understand for some people it helps in their custom settings worlds but for the standard game settings, it doesn't serve a purpose past day 3. I am hoping they can make some new uses for honey.

What makes you think Kalen and I use custom settings?

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Just because a feature doesn't seem necessary from your perspective doesn't mean it isn't valuable to someone else's.

The thing is that we were told a few times already over the years by TFP that the game balance is always done for default settings. This doesn´t do a lot for default settings.

Having it just being viable for certain play styles/settings is a waste of development time tbh.

 

[8_Hussars]

The thing is that we were told a few times already over the years by TFP that the game balance is always done for default settings. This doesn´t do a lot for default settings.

I suspect the apiary was introduced primarily to produce honey for the advanced meals and drinks that were added. On the default progression settings, it probably becomes available at about the right point in the game. That said, I also recognize that not every player crafts advanced meals, so its value will naturally vary depending on an individual's play style.

Having it just being viable for certain play styles/settings is a waste of development time tbh.

Doesn't that argument effectively invalidate all of the sandbox settings introduced in 3.0?

You're certainly entitled to that opinion, but I think you'll find that many players appreciate the freedom those settings provide and wouldn't consider them a waste of development time even if they don't use or intend to use many of them.

 

[grz__]

I think the apiary could be more relevant, but be careful—if you can craft it early in the game, in the first few days, the infection mechanic would become completely irrelevant, even more so than it already is, even with the 300% infection rate option. At this point, and considering that there are several types of antibiotics, I think the infection mechanic could be revamped to make it truly relevant, so that it actually has an impact on the player. For example, if you’re infected, the debuffs could appear sooner—from the moment you become infected. While infected/sick (Phase 2), the player could become more sensitive to temperature, draining their thirst very quickly, and why not (dizziness or fever) with blurred vision similar to that caused by beer (which is in the game). Honey should be less effective than the herbal antibiotic and much less effective than the regular antibiotic, with differences of more than 5% requiring multiple doses; the price of honey at the trader should be higher.

After testing with a 300% infection rate, I don’t see it as relevant in any way beyond an icon on the screen and a small 25% stamina debuff—considering that finding honey only requires chopping down 3 or 4 stumps in the forest, or even just 1 if you’re lucky, it seems pretty irrelevant.

In short, make the infection feel real to the player so they can take full advantage of the apiary.

 

[8_Hussars]

I think the apiary could be more relevant, but be careful—if you can craft it early in the game, in the first few days, the infection mechanic would become completely irrelevant, even more so than it already is, even with the 300% infection rate option.

Yes it could be more relevant. I would take a page out of several overhauls (stink, despair, etc.) and make the infection incurable and treatable.