ZZTong-Prefabs V3.0-ZZ032

[zztong]

It's just I found your reply to be useless, and borderline trollish.

Yikes. That isn't how I intended it. I'm sorry if it came out that way.

To my knowledge, nobody else has reported an issue with being unable to turn in a quest. That isn't anything I control in the POIs or their configuration. That's why I asked if there were log files as sometimes I can see what is happening based on the stack trace.

I did read, but also overlooked, there were consoles involved. I don't have a console. I can't test that. As Stallion pointed out, a console won't be able to install important POI files. If it were a PC, they could still complete quests, but could not trigger key racks and would have trouble seeing POIs at a distance. With 3.0, they won't get the customs signs either.

The best I could do is offer to login to your server from my PC and try to experience something first hand. I'm serious about this.

I honestly didnt think that any of the custom POIs would be quest-able for consoles, so when I saw we were able to do traderx custom POis and turn those in with no issue on console, I was pleasantly surprised.

This really throws me. They're just normal POIs, like all of the others. The only difference that I recall is that they're in a different (non-standard) folder. I can't imagine how the deviation from the standard folder allows them to work.

Overall, I'm engaged and want to solve problems. That's hard to do with just intuition, that's why I was hoping to collect some evidence. Any leads in terms of console errors could be really handy. Does anything show in the server logs?

EDIT: Regarding Stallionsden, he taught me POIs and he maintains a larger mod. He often knows things I don't know.

 

[zztong]

If you make custom POIs and have some insight as to why the traderx custom POis for consoles work and can be turned into a trader, yet other custom POis cannot be turned in, I'd be happy to read it.

Something I didn't ask in either reply is for you to tell me what other modlets are installed? Is it just mine, or are their others?

Also, you didn't answer if it was just my POIs that were acting that way?

 

[zztong]

not sure if you read what I said "except for the traderx custom POIs, which seem to complete just fine." The custom POIs will get all the green checkmarks except it wont let you turn it into the trader. Infested clear shows all the zombies killed.

Again, I don't have anything except this anectdote. No log files, no error message, no list of steps describing a methodical attempt to recreate, etc. And that's cool. I know it can be hard to gather data. As far as I know, you're the first to try the modlet in cross play. I can try to engage in some mental "what-ifs" and see if I can score an intuition kill...

We know the server does not send all POI data down to clients. We know this is true of the PCs and of the consoles. This means cross-play is going to suffer in the known ways. This is an unknown way, but what is the cause? One possibility is a difference in XML configuration between the xtrader POIs and other xtrader POIs. But I don't see that as being the cause because we know the clients are never sent the XML files. That's a big cause of all of the known problems. It can't be the block data because that DID get sent by the server as part of the world, it can't be the POI's JPG because nothing uses it (unless there are other mods in play, but they can't be installed on a console, do that isn't it), it can't be the POI's imposter file because while we know that will be a problem for the consoles (and PC clients that don't have the modlet) it doesn't affect missions. The only thing left would be a signs file, but that would have nothing to do with a quest and my POIs don't have any custom signs yet because that feature is 2-days old for me.

But I can advance a hypothesis...

I wonder, are you doing these missions solo or in a cross-play group? And, if in a cross-play group, is there a difference between when a member of the team who is a PC player completes the mission versus when a member of the team who is a console player completes the mission?

What about the mission types? Is it that clears are completing, but fetches are not? It can't be a generator quest because I don't have any POIs with that.

My suspicion is that console player quest details aren't getting updated by the game unless a PC Player happens to solve the mission and that would mean the PC Player with the modlet installed locally kills the last zombie in a clear quest. Fetch quests would always fail since each player picks up their own satchel.

... and remember, that's a hypothesis, made with only the one anecdotal report and no data.

 

[permadeathpayday]

Hey zztong, I think you misunderstood my message from earlier about the borderline trollish message. That was intended for Stallionsden, not for you. Not sure if you'd be interested in going back to re-read what I posted to see that I literally quoted Stallion and not you. I didn't find what you said to be borderline trollish at all!

Good to know Stallionsden knows about mods too! Perhaps I've used some of his mods already without knowing---wish his comment had been a bit more diagnostic as opposed to dismissive.

All custom POIs are acting this way except for the traderx custom POIs!

Not sure what a modlet is. Very new in this space. If a modlet is a custom POI, then the custom POIs I listed earlier are the only ones installed. Its crossplay, so as far as I know, custom POIs are the extent to which I can modify the game. I completely respect the fact that this one anecdotal report from a guy you've never personally interacted with is pretty weak sauce---if I were in your position I'd feel the same way. Let me fill in the data gaps best as I can, and replicate the exact custom POI quest clear once I'm done answering.

To answer your questions directly:
I wonder, are you doing these missions solo or in a cross-play group?
Answer: mission was done on my ps5, with another player who was also on ps5


And, if in a cross-play group, is there a difference between when a member of the team who is a PC player completes the mission versus when a member of the team who is a console player completes the mission?
Answer: N/a--we were both on consoles

What about the mission types? Is it that clears are completing, but fetches are not? It can't be a generator quest because I don't have any POIs with that.
Answer: It was an infested clear

My suspicion is that console player quest details aren't getting updated by the game unless a PC Player happens to solve the mission and that would mean the PC Player with the modlet installed locally kills the last zombie in a clear quest. "
Answer: I think thats your anti-console bias showing. Not to say your anti-console bias isn't well-informed by console limitations---but it seems that alot of this anti-console group think is getting in the way of trying to problem solve. (its impossible for them, lets not even try to fix their issues) If you'd like, I'll broadcast me finishing it on ps5 and display the youtube link so I can put to rest this notion that it is impossible for console players to not complete custom POIs in trader quests. Im also a very seeing is believing sort of guy, so I can relate to your need to see if for your own eyes for your brain to be able to open itself to other possibilities. I know nothing about this sort of thing, but you (and you may be able to speak with others) have the ability to crack this nut and maybe even unleash alot more joy for console players.

Fetch quests would always fail since each player picks up their own satchel.... and remember, that's a hypothesis, made with only the one anecdotal report and no data.
Answer: Yeah, its pretty weak on my end to expect you to just believe an anecdotal report, I'll be recording myself on ps5 to show you so that this can be more than just "one anecdotal report". If you'd like my server logs, from the time period in the server when I complete the quest, I can also provide those too. (once I re-do that custom POI again). ive uploaded a quick video to youtube (click youtube to see the video) just now showing you the quest list which displays the quest as completed and turned in---but that still might be too "anecdotal" for ya, so I'll re-do and post on youtube the accepting and completion of the custom quest

 

[zztong]

I think you misunderstood my message from earlier about the borderline trollish message. That was intended for Stallionsden, not for you.

I did misunderstand. As for trollish behavior, I can say having met Stallion in real life, that's not him. He might be weary and tired depending on the day and time, but he's not a troll.

It's pretty well established that custom POIs only fully work when they're installed on the server and all of the clients, which is why it is easy to say "doesn't work on a console" because folks know you cannot install the modlet on your client. But I also know that many parts of a POI do happen to work with a server-only installation... but with frustration. So if you don't mind the limitations, then rock on. Here's the kicker... the consoles are so new that we don't really know what the weird quirks are.

Not sure what a modlet is.

A "Mod" is a modlet. We package modifications in to a directory structure that conforms to a "modlet" specification, if you want to look at it like that. That specification isn't necessarily written down and is learned through trial and error. It isn't well understood by the player base, so sometimes players do things with the files that is detrimental and is a source of support issues.

All custom POIs are acting this way except for the traderx custom POIs!

So I'm going to take that to mean there are custom POIs from other sources, not part of my modlet, that have the same issue.

Why the traderx POIs working and the others not is a mystery to me.

I wonder, are you doing these missions solo or in a cross-play group?
Answer: mission was done on my ps5, with another player who was also on ps5

So two consoles? How did you install the modlet? Is there a rented server involved somewhere?

What about the mission types? Is it that clears are completing, but fetches are not? It can't be a generator quest because I don't have any POIs with that.
Answer: It was an infested clear

So an infested clear worked? Or is that a mission that you couldn't turn in?

Answer: I think thats your anti-console bias showing. Not to say your anti-console bias isn't well-informed by console limitations---but it seems that alot of this anti-console group think is getting in the way of trying to problem solve. (its impossible for them, lets not even try to fix their issues) If you'd like, I'll broadcast me finishing it on ps5 and display the youtube link so I can put to rest this notion that it is impossible for console players to not complete custom POIs in trader quests. Im also a very seeing is believing sort of guy, so I can relate to your need to see if for your own eyes for your brain to be able to open itself to other possibilities. I know nothing about this sort of thing, but you (and you may be able to speak with others) have the ability to crack this nut and maybe even unleash alot more joy for console players.

I wouldn't say I have a bias against the consoles. I would say TFP has been clear that consoles cannot support modlets. Thus, nobody is trying it, and I don't have a history of past trial and error to fall back on.

I would also say I don't have any experience with consoles connecting to a modded server. Nobody has approached me with information about it and I would say it is an area I am curious about.

I would also say we know that POI modlets don't work well unless they are installed on both the server and the clients. That's true of PCs too and a common point of support frustration as there are folks out there who are convinced POI modlets are server-side only, and then think the modlets are broken when the POIs don't work right.

As far as seeing, I'm more into collecting data. For instance, there's a lot of things about your situation that I don't know. I don't know which POIs, how many POIs, which kind of missions, what the trader did or didn't do, etc. I feel as though I'm trying to piece together fragments, which I'm game to do - it just likely means we're going to trade a bunch of messages.

If this is crossplay, then I should be able to connect to the server, right? I mean, depending on the day and the hour, I might be available.

ive uploaded a quick video to youtube (click youtube to see the video)

Watching... Version 2.6, I see a trader_jenx mission completed successfully.

Okay, so what happens when one doesn't complete? Are you never able to get it into a completed state, or is the trader just not recognizing it was complete?

By the way, the POI configuration only lets me pick the available mission types and place supporting blocks. I don't have any control over if the game thinks a mission is complete or how a trader reacts. It would be a problem if I didn't place any satchels for a fetch mission, but that would affect everyone regardless of platform.

As for a server log... that would be handy if some kind of exception is being thrown. It might tell me what blocks or activites were involved or what a trader was trying to do when it failed.

 

[zztong]

Hey @permadeathpayday are there any updates?

 

[Riamus]

quick question for ya zztong, I've been using your POIs, but for some odd reason, when players try to do trader quests at them, they're unable to finish the quest. I've observed this with pretty much every custom POI that we've run across on our dedicated server, except for the traderx custom POIs, which seem to complete just fine. Any idea how I could fix that or is it just a crossplay vanilla issue with the POIs?

Thanks for taking the time to respond and I love your POIs. Very grateful for all the work. Right now players submit a quick 15-30 second video showing they completed the POI in their POI quest list and get comp'd pretty much instantly via discord (provided im available to enter the code) by giving players the admin quest tickets.

P.s. thanks for already dropping the 3.0 update for your POIs, I plan on downloading that soon as well!

Just for reference, this is a new problem as of (I believe) 2.5. I don't know if it's a bug or intended, though. Previously, there wasn't any kind of problem when doing quests at custom POI if the POI wasn't installed on the client. But as of 2.5, that stopped working. Now, if you don't have the POI installed locally, when you complete it, instead of saying to go to the trader, it'll say to stay within the boundaries of the POI. You can leave those boundaries and it'll still say that. Trying to turn it in won't work because it's not being marked as completed. I'm hoping they fix it so you can turn in quests even if the POI isn't installed locally so that console players can do these quests again.

And, yes... there have always been issues with custom POI that aren't installed on the client, but those issues don't prevent using those POI. You can't click buttons or key racks or similar, but you can get around that by breaking the button or key rack. It might be a pain, but it works. And for those who want to use custom POI but can't install them locally, that can be worth the effort. You also can't see them in the distance, but that's minor. DM stuff like being able to teleport to them won't work, but that is also minor. Until the quests broke, the POI were still usable as long as you were comfortable with them not being perfect. Now, they are only usable for scavenging and not for questing.

Regarding traderx, are you saying that you can turn in a quest you received from a custom trader but not from a vanilla trader regardless if the quest was to a custom POI?

 

[zztong]

Just for reference, this is a new problem as of (I believe) 2.5. I don't know if it's a bug or intended, though. Previously, there wasn't any kind of problem when doing quests at custom POI if the POI wasn't installed on the client. But as of 2.5, that stopped working.

Oh, interesting. I never heard that. I didn't experience it because I always have POIs installed locally.

That will clobber all custom POIs for the consoles, though we already knew that wasn't a good idea.

I can't explain why the traderx POIs would work other than perhaps it still works with one type of quest, but not all types of quest.