After 2.6... why use dew collectors?

[Kalen]

At 40 days, the only thing left would be solar. You'd be able to craft Q6 of anything you care about, have done any T5 POIs you want, have whatever base you want. The only point to solar would be just to do solar.

I guess.... I always find things I want to do, but I'm probably the exception in the way I play. I frequently play past day 100. But yeah, solar is end game so I think its current availability is fine. In my current game I think I set up my first solar circuit sometime between day 50-60... and I think thats a good place for it.

 

[meganoth]

As far as I remember, TFP changed the game in 2.5 so that you could again collect water from lakes. Everyone only interested in collecting water from lakes, like Kalen, would have his wish in 2.5, right?

Then there were posts in the forum where people suggested or demanded that dew collectors should need jars. Reason that were cited were "for immersion". I would assume the same happened elsewhere, i.e. maybe streamers demanded it as well(?), otherwise why would TFP do the next step of adding jars to the collectors? But that is what they did in 2.6

Naturally it still is possible that either that group was still very small but vocal, or that TFP themselves thought it must be changed that way.

 

[Kalen]

Yup, 2.5 they added jars and I liked the way they implemented them. Jars weren't rare but they weren't abundant either. I thought it was a good balance. I'm kind of ambivalent on the dew collector requiring jars. I just assumed they did it because they didn't want there to be a way to passively generate jars? But you could be right and it was due to player feedback. I think I remember people speculating about it... I dont really remember people demanding it.

 

[seven]

Yup, 2.5 they added jars and I liked the way they implemented them. Jars weren't rare but they weren't abundant either. I thought it was a good balance. I'm kind of ambivalent on the dew collector requiring jars. I just assumed they did it because they didn't want there to be a way to passively generate jars? But you could be right and it was due to player feedback. I think I remember people speculating about it... I dont really remember people demanding it.

I'm guessing the 'jars as fuel' was implemented because it's just a variation on campfire or forges consuming wood, so quicker to get the code working. I'd prefer the dew collector stores water and then requires jars to collect water. It has a barrel to store water, or is that where the jars are stored?

 

[Kalen]

I'm guessing the 'jars as fuel' was implemented because it's just a variation on campfire or forges consuming wood, so quicker to get the code working. I'd prefer the dew collector stores water and then requires jars to collect water. It has a barrel to store water, or is that where the jars are stored?

I agree, I really wish we could store water in barrels like in VEIN.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

As far as I remember, TFP changed the game in 2.5 so that you could again collect water from lakes

Elegant solution. Except that's not all they did. They also added empty jars to the game world in loot, etc. Why? Who knows.* But that's set off complaints about empty jars being back in the game at all when they can be turned off with the refund slider...except for those they put in loot and, now, require for the dew collector.

*TFP's main worry all along has been that water (period) was too easy to come by, used for excessive glue manufacturing, etc. At least, that was their reason for removing natural water collection in the first place. Players were 'swimming in water," according to Rick. Did they think putting empty bottles in place of some filled bottles in the game world would put the survival back in survival when those empty jars could be filled just as easily as filled jars could be found? And how does "burning" empty jars in a dew collector fit in? (Fuel source? Seriously?) The result of adding empty jars to the game world rather than simply refunding them when drinking (if desired according to the setup slider) has resulted in a mess.

As dew collectors are right now, it doesn't make a lick of sense how they work. It was probably just easiest to put in a slot for "fuel" same as the campfire and forge. Obviously didn't matter to TFP if it made sense as long as those demanding jars be required for dew collectors, which also doesn't make any sense, shut up. Whatever the reason, it's a terrible reflection on TFP's ability to implement sensible systems.

Post automatically merged: Today at 1:02 PM

I agree, I really wish we could store water in barrels like in VEIN.

You can build a "barrel" to put it in.

 

[zztong]

Collecting water from a river is only a small part of it as that could have easily been done without jars. Click to get water and you have a jar of water without any jar required.

Yeh, that's what I modded into the game during those years that we didn't have empty jars. It was fine. The important part to me was being able to carry water from a water source. I limited it via stack sizes and the time it took to harvest the water. At 6 seconds per jar, nobody was going to bring back 100 water unless they used AutoHotKey and went to dinner. I didn't care if there were empty jars, or not. I don't mind dealing with empty jars either, nor do I mind having a dew collector in which to put them. But that's me and there's 2-3 different desires competing, which makes this a seemingly endless debate.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

Yeh, that's what I modded into the game during those years that we didn't have empty jars. It was fine. The important part to me was being able to carry water from a water source. I limited it via stack sizes and the time it took to harvest the water. At 6 seconds per jar, nobody was going to bring back 100 water unless they used AutoHotKey and went to dinner. I didn't care if there were empty jars, or not. I don't mind dealing with empty jars either, nor do I mind having a dew collector in which to put them. But that's me and there's 2-3 different desires competing, which makes this a seemingly endless debate.

Thus, my suggestion to keep it elegant. Were I TFP, I'd do just that: keep the slider; lose the empty jars in loot; restore the dew collector to its former glory; and ignore any further complaints.

 

[Kalen]

You can build a "barrel" to put it in.

I assume you're talking about using a bucket of water.... which is not at all what I mean. I'd like to see a container that can hold an amount of water that depletes as you use it. Maybe a barrel holds 100 jars worth of water.... so you fill 10 jars and now only have 90 left.

Using the bucket, I think its now an infinite supply? Thats not something I'd be interested in using.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

I assume you're talking about using a bucket of water.... which is not at all what I mean. I'd like to see a container that can hold an amount of water that depletes as you use it. Maybe a barrel holds 100 jars worth of water.... so you fill 10 jars and now only have 90 left.

Using the bucket, I think its now an infinite supply? Thats not something I'd be interested in using.

I know what you mean. Barrels like those you see in VEIN. Built cisterns in 7DTD do deplete the water as you use it, but don't show things like ml left of ml capacity. They're not as complicated because 7D2D is not going for realism.

 

[seven]

I know what you mean. Barrels like those you see in VEIN. Built cisterns in 7DTD do deplete the water as you use it, but don't show things like ml left of ml capacity. They're not as complicated because 7D2D is not going for realism.

So, I did a little test. I make a 1 block cistern and added 1 bucket of water. Perhaps it does deplete eventually, but I gave up after filling 360 jars of water. If one is going to make it that easy, why not just spawn in 1000 jars of water and skip the cistern?

Overhauls have had barrels that you can store water in, and act like Kalen described. In vanilla would be better.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

The ironic thing that I think about is how, a game that started as a zombie
apocalypse game, shifted over the years from, fear of the walking dead to
basically a watery simcity.

Imho, whether I can get 1 drink or a 1000 simultaneously, the thing that
should be my major concern is getting to and from the water source, or
getting to and from a poi that I want to loot.

That is why I have constantly upped the ante, the easier it became to get water.

Examples, modding POIWater blocks to be dirt or air blocks, in one move.

Increasing spawn count, lowering respawn timing to seconds vs days, rearranging
entity groups to make them more relevant. Meaning dogs, spiders, attack vultures,
dires. With increased severity as I progress from biome to biome. Having water
sources only in the wasteland. Having to go through the burnt and desert and snow
to get to the water, if I have a temp base in the forest. For me that changes the focus
a bit. Reducing the Key entities for biome progression, especially in the snow.

A circle of life hierarchy for the entities. So there are always fights and eating
sounds all around, day and night, even when minding my own business cooking at my camp.
Changing entity properties so that there are mob fights vs 1 v 1.

Without artificially raising speed or hp or damage dealt to or from entities. It
makes the environment feel more full, more complete.

Madmole posted before regarding vertexes and tris and polys rendered on the screen,
If the poly count on the zombies was reduced by 50% that would still be 2 and a half
times more detailed that the older variety. That would help allow the world to have
more in it, on pc and console.

 

[theFlu]

It was probably just easiest to put in a slot for "fuel" same as the campfire and forge.

Probably. The again, if they actually copied the forge mechanics, it'd make more sense than the forge itself
As in, over time, the "smelted metal" counter ticks up, representing the water gathered. You show up with jars and don't smelt them in, but craft one of the recipes the thing has, "Murky Water", or "Clean Water (Filter Required)". (That would differ from the forge a bit, requiring inventory mats, dunno if that's easy to code or not... prolly not impossible thou)