PC V2.6 EXP

Roland said:
Such as...?
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As a wise man said: "Just don't mention...... jars".
The sawtable. Progression system. Temperature system. Clothing.
Some have returned, maybe slightly altered. Wich just proves it was cut without proper reasoning beforehand.
Also many things feel too systematic or just plain copy/paste, like the costs of armour: What do I need for 1 item?Ok, 4x for a complete set...
Or the tiers for weapons: No need to even look at the stats, just make next level. It's better with no penalty.
 
Roland said:
Oh, you never discerned that they changed the entire armor and clothing system as well as biome environmental effects and weather which was why the temperature mechanic went offline until they were ready to bring it back within the new system? I'm not pretending that removals never happened. But you and others need to stop pretending like you have any inkling why decisions are made and acting like you are so much in the know that if you personally can't grok why a change was made then it MUST have been a pointless indiscernable reason.

You should also try and discern that you are playing a game that is under active development and they allow us to play it while they develop so that you will often experience periods where this or that feature goes offline because they are working on a related feature that affects it. Nobody said you had to update to the newest version. If you were so married to the temperature feature you could have stayed with that version until they finally brought it back and then you could update and have uninterrupted temperature mechanics in your gameplay.

Next....
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1. Temperature being removed was never explained to the players. Thus MAKING it indiscernible to us BECAUSE we have no insider info.
2. The removal was completely unnecessary because all they had to do was tie temperature res to the quality of armor and then NOT literally disable the feature for no reason (that we were told anyway) later.
3. Temperature was NOT ■■■■ing added in the update where they were going to be doing weather and biome updates. It was added 6 months later AFTER community outcry.
4. 2 ■■■■ing years is far too long for a feature to dissappear from an early access game without so much as a whisper of why.

Also pretty bright to say I'm some AI slopper when I've been complaining about people posting ai generated images on these forums. Yeah i'm just asking Grok for why they keep removing ■■■■. Grok might actually hallicinate some plausible ideas though. Roland just defends every action they make even when they themselves show that it was a bad choice. Captain Jars-Are-Superfluous-Nonsense-Oh-Wait-Nevermind-Daddy-Joel-Put-Them-Back-In-He's-A-Genius-We-Are-Not-Worthy-To-Be-Allowed-To-Play-Such-A-Flawless-Game

And that's another thing Roland. Do NOT give me the "They allow you to play" ■■■■, we ALLOW them to have a development studio by buying their product and backing it on kickstarter. 7dtd would not BE developed if it was being held back privately until it was done because they wouldn't have the bloody funding to develop for 14 ■■■■ing years without a source of income i.e the people you endlessly ■■■■ talk and drive away from these forums. It's not a grace that TFP ALLOWS us to play an unfinished product it's a grace that they still have a community after approaching 14 years of not successfully finishing a single one. How's blood moons doing btw?

13 years
3 permanently unfinished products (7 days, Blood Moons, the original console port)
0 bandits

But they're geniuses and we should just shut up.
 
IzPrebuilt said:
Also pretty bright to say I'm some AI slopper when I've been complaining about people posting ai generated images on these forums. Yeah i'm just asking Grok for why they keep removing ■■■■. Grok might actually hallicinate some plausible ideas though.
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Just as an FYI, I'm pretty sure Roland was using the programmer/Unix slang version of Grok, which basically means grasp/understand, not referring to the "AI". Which is actually what the AI is named after, but that's neither here nor there.
 
Dead Smarty said:
Or the tiers for weapons: No need to even look at the stats, just make next level. It's better with no penalty.
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Can't blame TFP for that one. Quality levels and different tiers used to have a little overlap so you could get a Q5 being better than a Q6, or a Q6 being better than a Q1 of the next tier, for example. People hated it and so TFP removed that. I didn't really mind it that much. Would've been nice if they could've somehow kept that overlap for looted stuff but made it so crafted was clear cut as it is now. But that probably would've been a fair bit of work for not a lot of gain.
Dead Smarty said:
The sawtable.
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Just made building needlessly annoying. The only way I could see it making sense now is if we couldn't use all the shapes by default and needed to use that as a station to craft the shapes. Maybe restrict it to the default tab we have now that you can make by hand and all the rest have to be made at the saw. But I just don't see the point. It doesn't really add anything.
Dead Smarty said:
Temperature system. Clothing.
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As Roland stated before, these were removed as what we had wouldn't work with what we were getting. And were going to come back later anyway, but the mass hissy fits thrown caused it to get moved forward and now it's back. I think they probably should've focused more on temperature and had it ready to release alongside the storms as it just makes sense, but then that means you need the clothing and blah blah blah, so I can see why they held those out together. Either way, they were going to have to be reworked so what's your point? The old stuff was going to go no matter what. The only thing that really changed was the timeline in which they came back due to the naggers.
 
Roland said:
Not at all. Priority issues. TFP is always working on many aspects of the game. They never planned to permanently remove temperature. All the review bombing of 2.0 did was push them to reprioritize what they were working on so we got temperature back sooner than it was originally prioritized to happen in order to appease upset people.

I think it turned out great and I'm glad TFP got temperature back in the game sooner due to community pressure. But that doesn't mean there was no good discernible reason it was removed for a time while biome environmental effects and clothing and armor were being majorly overhauled. It astounds me that this was the example given for something that was removed for no discernible reason....
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Okay then they should tell us such things? Why do i have to rely on a forum moderator to hear about such things? Don't they have community managers? We always tell the community of our projects why we are or are not doing certain things. It's as simple as writing a small developer blog.
 
Kire said:
Okay then they should tell us such things?
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Why?

I mean, I always appreciate it when they give us insight into what goes on behind the scenes, because I like the game enough to find it interesting. That said, I've never felt entitled to such information, or feel like me personally knowing what's going on behind the scenes is somehow going to make the final product any better.

I guess I've generally been ok with the direction the game has been going since I really got into it (A20), and perhaps that's why I 'trust' TFP to continue updating the game in generally positive ways. The game is still unfinished, and until they call it finished, if it still doesn't have things I think it should have at that point, I'll express my frustrations then. I suppose I'm content with enjoying the updates as they are released.
 
Dead Smarty said:
The sawtable. Progression system. Temperature system. Clothing.
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I don’t dispute that these elements were changed or cut. What I dispute is your claim that they happened for no good reason. You might not like the reason or think it was a good enough reason and you are certainly entitled to express your opinion about that but the people behind these decisions are not making them in a vacuum and they always have what they believe to be a good reason for what they do.
 
IzPrebuilt said:
1. Temperature being removed was never explained to the players. Thus MAKING it indiscernible to us BECAUSE we have no insider info.
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Yes it was. I don’t expect you to have read every statement made by TFP, but it is just common courtesy to assume you missed something before accusing TFP of never explaining it. It’s your schtick to assume worst motives possible for any action and then rant for several episodes against that as though it were the actual truth.

IzPrebuilt said:
2. The removal was completely unnecessary because all they had to do was tie temperature res to the quality of armor and then NOT literally disable the feature for no reason (that we were told anyway) later.
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How do you know it wasn’t necessary? What? They just push the simple development button and everything just works the way you want it too? @faatal could you please just press the bandit button so we can get 3.0 this month please?

IzPrebuilt said:
3. Temperature was NOT ■■■■ing added in the update where they were going to be doing weather and biome updates. It was added 6 months later AFTER community outcry.
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You’re right. Just like every major update, adjustments and additions were made in the .x updates based on player feedback. I can tell you that temperature was planned to be added in even though it didn’t come by 2.0. The outrage definitely pushed them to prioritize things but it’s silly to think they weren’t going to ever add temperature until the bad reviews changed their minds.

IzPrebuilt said:
4. 2 ■■■■ing years is far too long for a feature to dissappear from an early access game without so much as a whisper of why.
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That’s just not true. Sorry you weren’t following the development to the degree that you read or heard it but it’s inaccurate to say they never addressed temperature or their plans to bring it back at all.

IzPrebuilt said:
Also pretty bright to say I'm some AI slopper
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I had no idea there was an AI called grok. It’s sad when a previously great word has to be abandoned because it has become a brand name. Just replace the word with “understand”. My comments had nothing to do with AI.

IzPrebuilt said:
And that's another thing Roland. Do NOT give me the "They allow you to play" ■■■■, we ALLOW them to have a development studio by buying their product and backing it on kickstarter.
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It’s both. It’s a symbiotic relationship. Also I was not saying we should be grateful for the grace they grant us to play their game while they develop it. I was saying we should be mindful that it is a game in the midst of active development and so there will be times when things go offline and online and there will be cuts and changes. Don’t inject that reality with some outrageous claim that I think we should worship TFP because they let us play their game.
 
I think that people who talk talk talk and blame TFP for this and that, they don't know much about the job of a game developer.
They think that since game X and Y have handled their development in a way, then all games should handle their business the same way.

But each game and each project is unique, in a way, and 7D2D especially, is one of a kind.

I remember a time when TFP were accused of scamming the players to run away with the kick-starter money.
Well, here we are, 13 years later, and they're still working h a r d on the game to finish it!

Even so, there'll always be people who won't trust them.
That's life.
 
Old Crow said:
They have pills for that!
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Adam the Waster said:
Just don't mistake them for pain killers, otherwise it's going to be awkward if your dying
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Two one liners back to back. Priceless.😂

That is so open to interpretation.

Whats it called when a stewardess catches a ride as a passenger to her connection point?

What do you say when you lob a ball to someone that isn't looking?

What's it called when stumble and fall rolling forward, while running?

What would you be called if you would died ingame, you'd be considered
a stiff stiff
.
Yall made me do it.
 
Kire said:
Okay then they should tell us such things? Why do i have to rely on a forum moderator to hear about such things? Don't they have community managers? We always tell the community of our projects why we are or are not doing certain things. It's as simple as writing a small developer blog.
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They did. You don’t have to rely on me. Just follow what developers say when they say it. Watch each dev stream. Read their forum comments. Follow them on X. You can be as involved as you want. But if you miss something please don’t just assume it was never said.
 
Roland said:
They did. You don’t have to rely on me. Just follow what developers say when they say it. Watch each dev stream. Read their forum comments. Follow them on X. You can be as involved as you want. But if you miss something please don’t just assume it was never said.
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In my opinion, everything they say should be on the forums. Some of us don't use Twitch/X/insert social media garbage here. They have an official forums. Things they wish to communicate to the player base should be posted on those forums.

Posting things on the steam page would also be acceptable.
 
Jost Amman said:
I've read at least two posts where you did that, and that's what my comment is based on.
Also, it was a comment in jest... but I see here people get offended easily even when just cracking a joke.


The difference is exactly that. YOUR reason to add/remove something is different than mine and some others, but you always tend to only consider "optimization" of the game, rather than fun. This is a game, a game must be fun. If you want efficiency go play Space Engineers.

The workbench is already doing the work of at least 3 other workstations that are more specialized and are not in the game right now.
Adding more specialized workstations would add more variety and open up more gameplay possibilities.

Why would you want to shut that down? :unsure:
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I'm not concerned specifically about optimization, and if you read what I said, my opinion is based on my fun in the game. I don't find it fun to have to build a lot of superfluous workstations and fill up my base with them just so that workbench stuff is made in different workstations instead of just the workbench. I prefer a clean base. I don't do what others do and stack workstations on top of one another and other crazy stuff like that. Adding more workstations makes it worse for me, not better. It has nothing to do with optimization or efficiency. I've played enough games that have a lot of workstations and they just get tedious.

Dead Smarty said:
As it is now I'm most of the time using the lowest tier block and then use nailgun to upgrade for the simple reason that this goes way faster than making steelblocks in the workbench. As I said before, the footprint should be lower and the speed should be higher since the workbench takes up 4 blocks in my base. This is also not realy a case of "adding more" as it used to be in the game before.
So I'm more interested if there was a good reason to remove it. I'm still quite new to the game but the deeper I get into it the more I get the feeling that there are quite a lot of features being changed or cut without good reasoning.

Also logic dictates that electric cooking is a luxury in an apocalypse since woodfires are easier to use in the middle of nowhere with an inefficient powergrid. If there's any grid at all.
Powertools on generators make more sense or fuel. Remember the days when you had those little grinders that allowed you to take 'm all appart and rebuild 2 working ones out of 3 broken, regardles of what brand they were. No way that will work with electric stoves.
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Jar Jar?
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They can make a workstation that makes steel blocks faster and most people who upgrade blocks will still do so. It gives experience and it lets you move things around if you misplace something without having to spend time destroying the steel block. And a saw table should take the same space as a workbench. I'm not sure if you've worked with woodworking in real life, but a table saw tends to be about the same size as a typical workbench (one the size of what is in the game) unless you're using one of those cheap home ones that aren't worth anything. So it shouldn't be smaller, imo.

Stoves are mostly for aesthetics (for me). Numerous have long complained about why they have to place a campfire in their base instead of using a stove. As far as realism goes, if you find an electric stove in a house in the apocalypse and you set up electric power as we are doing in this game, there's no reason you can't make that stove work.

IzPrebuilt said:
C'mon now Roland don't act like they didn't remove the entire temperature mechanic for 2 years for no discernible reason.
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No discernable reason? Are you being obtuse intentionally? They removed clothing, leaving far fewer mod slots available. Having to place enough mods in for temperature when there wasn't any other way to improve you temperature control would have cost way too many mod slots. Beyond that, they wanted to redo the temperature. So it was removed temporarily while they worked on redoing temperature and adding ways to manage your temperature. Seems discernable to me.
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Dead Smarty said:
As a wise man said: "Just don't mention...... jars".
The sawtable. Progression system. Temperature system. Clothing.
Some have returned, maybe slightly altered. Wich just proves it was cut without proper reasoning beforehand.
Also many things feel too systematic or just plain copy/paste, like the costs of armour: What do I need for 1 item?Ok, 4x for a complete set...
Or the tiers for weapons: No need to even look at the stats, just make next level. It's better with no penalty.
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No idea about the saw table. Progression was changed to what they wanted it to be, so there was a reason. Temperature was due to changes in clothing/armor and redoing how temperature worked, as I explained above, so again, there was a reason. Clothing was removed because of a variety of reasons, such as clipping when mixing and matching and just an overall poor look to the armor/clothing. Some people liked the old stuff, and there are certainly some things I miss (the trench coat), but the new armor looks much better. So again, there was a reason. Just because you may not like the reason doesn't mean there isn't one or that the reason isn't a good one.

As far as levels, have you seen the posts from people who complained constantly about making a higher quality weapon only to have it not be as good due to the RNG range (before they changed that)? Trust me when I say that making it so each level is better than the last was a good thing.
 
Vaeliorin said:
In my opinion, everything they say should be on the forums. Some of us don't use Twitch/X/insert social media garbage here. They have an official forums. Things they wish to communicate to the player base should be posted on those forums.

Posting things on the steam page would also be acceptable.
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Keep in mind that although you (and we) use the forum, many people do not. Many only see what is posted on social media or in the dev streams. Many don't even see that because they don't follow the game info and just see what they see when an update occurs. Their social media are just as official as the forum. And I'm saying that as someone who doesn't look at their social media pages unless someone posts something about it here to tell me to look there.

Could they be better at communicating? Talk to Hammer about that. The short answer is yes. The slightly longer answer is that although they can be better, they don't owe us better communication. We aren't entitled to it, regardless what people want to believe. They could choose to say nothing and just let us read patch notes whenever an update happens. That wasn't at all uncommon years ago. Just because things are far more "open" these days doesn't mean we're entitled to constant communication. It is nice when it happens, but it's up to the studios how much they want to provide. And considering all the backlash whenever they share things here, I'm not surprised they don't want to share more than they do. I mean, some people complain about communication even when they are communicating... that's how bad this entitlement has gotten.
 
Riamus said:
Keep in mind that although you (and we) use the forum, many people do not. Many only see what is posted on social media or in the dev streams. Many don't even see that because they don't follow the game info and just see what they see when an update occurs. Their social media are just as official as the forum. And I'm saying that as someone who doesn't look at their social media pages unless someone posts something about it here to tell me to look there.

Could they be better at communicating? Talk to Hammer about that. The short answer is yes. The slightly longer answer is that although they can be better, they don't owe us better communication. We aren't entitled to it, regardless what people want to believe. They could choose to say nothing and just let us read patch notes whenever an update happens. That wasn't at all uncommon years ago. Just because things are far more "open" these days doesn't mean we're entitled to constant communication. It is nice when it happens, but it's up to the studios how much they want to provide. And considering all the backlash whenever they share things here, I'm not surprised they don't want to share more than they do. I mean, some people complain about communication even when they are communicating... that's how bad this entitlement has gotten.
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I have no problem with the amount they communicate, really. I just hate that they have an official forums, yet don't post things here, instead posting it on social media that I refuse to use. But that's not specific to TFP. It applies to all developers, and has annoyed me for years. But I'm old. 🤷‍♂️
 
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