Auto turrets (ie smg and shotgun turrets) now trigger demolisher bombs

[Abrogator]

Version

2.5 b32

Platform

Windows

In previous versions, the powered turrets that you could wire up (not the junk turrets under robotics skill) were safe to use against demo zombies. It was my understanding that this was intentional game design, and I was able to use them without issue before. Now however (v 2.5), this does not seem to be the case. Using smg turrets against demos now results in triggering of the bombs.

I didn't see anything in the patch notes about this. Is this intentional, or an unintended consequence of some other change?

 

[AWESOMELANDO]

Hi there, the auto turrets were always intended to target the demo zombies but it was possible to position them to avoid hitting the detonator in the past. The targeting angle has been modified so the chance to hit the detonator is higher now than before.

 

[Abrogator]

Ah, so the turrets are supposed to be useless. Fun.

 

[Old Crow]

Hi there, the auto turrets were always intended to target the demo zombies but it was possible to position them to avoid hitting the detonator in the past. The targeting angle has been modified so the chance to hit the detonator is higher now than before.

Well, that's disappointing for those who use them for horde bases.

 

[Riamus]

If that's how they want it, I don't really mind. It just means adjusting how you place turrets. It's still easy enough to place them in positions where they won't trigger the demolition zombies. Whether that is by placing them so they shoot the zombies in the backs instead of the fronts or placing them higher so they shoot down at the zombies or even off to the sides. So far, I haven't had any of them get triggered by my turrets, but my current base is only using 2 turrets on the roof and I'm usually trying to trigger the demolition zombies myself unless they get into my defenses before I can do so and then I just headshot them.

 

[Old Crow]

If that's how they want it, I don't really mind. It just means adjusting how you place turrets. It's still easy enough to place them in positions where they won't trigger the demolition zombies. Whether that is by placing them so they shoot the zombies in the backs instead of the fronts or placing them higher so they shoot down at the zombies or even off to the sides. So far, I haven't had any of them get triggered by my turrets, but my current base is only using 2 turrets on the roof and I'm usually trying to trigger the demolition zombies myself unless they get into my defenses before I can do so and then I just headshot them.

I never use them for horde bases anyway. My group and I use them strictly for home base defense.

 

[bdubyah]

Ah, so the turrets are supposed to be useless. Fun.

How does that make them useless, exactly? I think you meant to say something like "Ah, so the turrets aren't supposed to be OP." Have you ever looked close at the turrets? They are obviously meant to be a cobbled together thing, so what makes you think they wouldn't trigger a demo? If they didn't before it sounds like you just got lucky as it makes perfect sense that they should. Why would bullets fired from them magically not be able to hit their trigger?

 

[meganoth]

How does that make them useless, exactly? I think you meant to say something like "Ah, so the turrets aren't supposed to be OP." Have you ever looked close at the turrets? They are obviously meant to be a cobbled together thing, so what makes you think they wouldn't trigger a demo? If they didn't before it sounds like you just got lucky as it makes perfect sense that they should. Why would bullets fired from them magically not be able to hit their trigger?

Because its a game. In a game with zombies and people lifting 6000 concrete blocks turrets could magically not hit a trigger.

I am not saying they should or shouldn't though. For game balance there are arguments for and against it:

For: turrets could be viewed as op. Ranged auto-targetting "traps". Their only downsides are their fragility and limited ammo capacity if you can't refill them. And you even could arrange them so that they deliberately trigger demos, though that can get expensive

Against: If your base can't afford a dozen demos to explode the supposedly end game most powerful traps are a trap for the player, i.e. unless he knows the specific ways to incorporate them they are more likely to kill than help him. Though that isn't unheard of in other games: Factorio has a nuclear rocket and there probably exists no player using it that hasn't also died because of its huge blast radius

 

[bdubyah]

Because its a game. In a game with zombies and people lifting 6000 concrete blocks turrets could magically not hit a trigger.

I am not saying they should or shouldn't though. For game balance there are arguments for and against it:

For: turrets could be viewed as op. Ranged auto-targetting "traps". Their only downsides are their fragility and limited ammo capacity if you can't refill them. And you even could arrange them so that they deliberately trigger demos, though that can get expensive

Against: If your base can't afford a dozen demos to explode the supposedly end game most powerful traps are a trap for the player, i.e. unless he knows the specific ways to incorporate them they are more likely to kill than help him. Though that isn't unheard of in other games: Factorio has a nuclear rocket and there probably exists no player using it that hasn't also died because of its huge blast radius

Sure, but TFP responded saying it works as intended. So what's the point of discussing it further? I seem to remember them repeatedly saying they don't want the player to ever feel truly safe, so this falls in line with that. Being able to plop down a couple turrets and ignore a horde is dumb. If you don't wanna deal with them then turn them off. Besides, if you use your brain and setup your base in a sensible manner, turrets can still kill demos before they can explode. I'd have to imagine using AP ammo makes that even easier now, especially if you aren't AFKing the horde and helping them out.

And my comment was more towards that person saying the turrets are now useless. That's an idiotic statement to make regardless of whether you feel they should have magical trigger avoidance or not.

 

[Riamus]

Sure, but TFP responded saying it works as intended. So what's the point of discussing it further?

I agree with what you were saying, but as far as this one part, there's no reason not to discuss it further if people don't like the change. TFP does listen to people's opinions and sometimes changes or adjusts things based on those, though discussions are more likely to be noticed in the General Discussions or Pimp Dreams forums. I'd say that if the OP or others have concerns about it, that creating a new post in either location, depending on whether the post is discussion or request, would be a good option rather than continuing it here.

 

[bdubyah]

I agree with what you were saying, but as far as this one part, there's no reason not to discuss it further if people don't like the change. TFP does listen to people's opinions and sometimes changes or adjusts things based on those, though discussions are more likely to be noticed in the General Discussions or Pimp Dreams forums. I'd say that if the OP or others have concerns about it, that creating a new post in either location, depending on whether the post is discussion or request, would be a good option rather than continuing it here.

Yeah, downside to the town hall stuff is now everyone thinks if they cry enough TFP will cater to them. I'm afraid this push to add 1000 options to the game is just gonna make it more of a mess. Hopefully I'm wrong though. But yeah, this isn't the place for that discussion either way.

 

[meganoth]

Sure, but TFP responded saying it works as intended. So what's the point of discussing it further?

Did you ask yourself that before you posted your reply one day after TFPs statement?

I seem to remember them repeatedly saying they don't want the player to ever feel truly safe, so this falls in line with that. Being able to plop down a couple turrets and ignore a horde is dumb. If you don't wanna deal with them then turn them off. Besides, if you use your brain and setup your base in a sensible manner, turrets can still kill demos before they can explode. I'd have to imagine using AP ammo makes that even easier now, especially if you aren't AFKing the horde and helping them out.

And my comment was more towards that person saying the turrets are now useless. That's an idiotic statement to make regardless of whether you feel they should have magical trigger avoidance or not.

How can a realism argument help a person that thinks turrets are useless in the game? I read your post again and expect for saying they are not useless (without any explanation) all your arguments were about realism. Not saying you are wrong, but it seems in all the haste of replying you totally forgot to say what you just said here in the quote above.

 

[bdubyah]

Did you ask yourself that before you posted your reply one day after TFPs statement?

I wasn't discussing TFP's decision though, just the user's opinion that they are useless because of that decision. Not quite the same.

How can a realism argument help a person that thinks turrets are useless in the game? I read your post again and expect for saying they are not useless (without any explanation) all your arguments were about realism. Not saying you are wrong, but it seems in all the haste of replying you totally forgot to say what you just said here.

When did I mention realism? All I said was expecting turrets to magically target everything except one area of one enemy is silly. You were the one that went to the tired "but you can carry lots of stuff" nonsense, which has nothing to do with the topic. And do I really need to explain how they aren't useless? Really? They don't kill things anymore? What did I forget to say, exactly? My original post was just asking them why they thought the turrets were now useless, and you jump in with all this crap.

 

[meganoth]

I wasn't discussing TFP's decision though, just the user's opinion that they are useless because of that decision. Not quite the same.

Ok, correct. I added the turret-discussion to show that my objection wasn't about the turrets hitting demos itself. And to show the OP that there exist arguments for both ways.

When did I mention realism?

You're not serious, right? Just because you didn't use the word itself doesn't mean your argument wasn't all about realism. The antonym of "magic" is "science" by the way i.e. the same thingy that would tell you that carrying 6000 concrete blocks would be unrealistic and that a cobbled together turret can't avoid hitting a red button on a fast moving target. Except in movies and games where realism often plays second fiddle.

All I said was expecting turrets to magically target everything except one area of one enemy is silly. You were the one that went to the tired "but you can carry lots of stuff" nonsense, which has nothing to do with the topic. And do I really need to explain how they aren't useless? Really? They don't kill things anymore? What did I forget to say, exactly? My original post was just asking them why they thought the turrets were now useless, and you jump in with all this crap.