PC Simple question about charging batteries

[bobrpggamer]

So I did some searching and it seems that a level 6 battery takes a little less than 20 minutes to charge. Well this is all fine but is it 20 minutes game time or 20 minutes real time?

I am guessing real time. Which will take a day in game time to recharge all 6 level 6 batteries in a battery bank.

 

[ALEXZANDER]

So I did some searching and it seems that a level 6 battery takes a little less than 20 minutes to charge. Well this is all fine but is it 20 minutes game time or 20 minutes real time?

I am guessing real time. Which will take a day in game time to recharge all 6 level 6 batteries in a battery bank.

Of course real time! And it will take in game 2 days to recharge 6 batteries level 6 if they charge 20 min

 

[theFlu]

Hmm, they may have changed this, or I have used plenty of triggers in my setups before.

I did a little testing (accuracy of a lazy hand measure):

100 W drain for 5 mins (300s)

Measuring in sell price
Q6 (200$ fully charged)
Drained a battery from 200 to 163 = 37 "charge"
Charging that back up took 5:30 (330s)

Some math later, a fully drained Q6 would charge in about 30 mins (real time)

Q1 (100$ fully charged)
Drained a battery from 100 to 60 = 40
Charging that back up took 5:30 (330s)

The full charge is 2.5 times that, about 14 minutes.

Side note, when fully charged, a battery bank no longer consumes power (my test setup lit up an extra light bulb as the battery filled up)


So, charging time is equal to about "90W of consumption" -time. If you can drop your "active" consumption down to 9W (everything behind a camera, or some such), you get 20 hours of uptime in 2 hours of charge time. (didn't Really test that part, but that's how I think it should work).

Basically, charging costs 5 W, and the effective charge rate is 90W, that's where some magic happens

 

[Suxar]

Basically, charging costs 5 W, and the effective charge rate is 90W, that's where some magic happens

I noticed this feature. At night (30 minutes) the battery powers a bunch of electrics at almost 150 watts, and then in half a day (45 minutes) it is fully charged, consuming only 5 watts.

 

[bobrpggamer]

My solar bank with max watts at 60 and even my generator bank with max watts of 300 end up charging the batteries with an output of 7 watts to the battery bank. Why only 7 watts no matter how powerful my solar and generator banks are?

I am sure the game design does not want charging of the batteries too fast just to balance gameplay, but it is still just a little strange that a 300 watt generator outputs 7 watts to charge batteries.

Worst part is I am having a heck of a time trying to get a solar bank to automatically charge my battery bank when the batteries drain but instead of just charging the batteries the solar bank (even with a timer relay turning it off) keeps providing power to the electric items I have and bypassing the battery bank all together. I have to manually turn off the solar bank with a switch to get the battery bank to kick on. So much for automated solar + battery bank power. I was really looking forward to that in my base.

I found a video on YouTube that confirmed that the automatic solar bank to battery bank even with timer relays is really buggy. So its not just me.

I have 24 hour turrets and 4 sets of 24 hour electric fences. The only way I can think of this working with solar is to buy enough solar cells to power the entire system with just the solar bank and the have battery banks (hopefully) kick on between 22:00 and 4:00 or what ever time the solar shuts down. This may not even work. I just hope when the solar turns off itself (without the use of a timer relay) the battery bank will continue to power the electric components. This is going to take forever to get enough dukes to buy a massive amount of solar cells and testing that can only be done about 21:45 every time I test the system. I know I can use the creative mode in the settings, but spoils the fun of the game for me.

Thanks for the replies guys.

 

[theFlu]

Why only 7 watts no matter how powerful my solar and generator banks are?

Seems to be a design choice; nothing is "adjustable", only on or off. So even the battery bank only charges at a fixed rate. If you want, you can charge multiple batteries from one generator by having several battery banks connected from it (each will charge one battery at a time). Whether in the form of a separate "charging station", where you manually move batteries in and out of the banks, or just a part of your permanent setup.

In a permanent setup it will become a "load balancing" issue, as each battery bank will have to drive its own circuit and the charging generator might not enough power to run all of them while charging. You might need timers after each battery bank to ensure the power goes to the battery banks and not the circuit after the banks.

 

[theFlu]

I have 24 hour turrets and 4 sets of 24 hour electric fences. The only way I can think of this working with solar is to buy enough solar cells to power the entire system with just the solar bank and the have battery banks (hopefully) kick on between 22:00 and 4:00 or what ever time the solar shuts down.

Yes, If you want ANYTHING to run 24/7, you'll need enough power in your charging side (engines or solar) to run it while charging.

But I doubt they're in use 24/7? That'd be quite the screamer farm
As an option, you could "double up" your 24 circuits:
Connect another battery bank to your solar, and move half of your defenses to be powered from there. Or double up on defenses if you feel you need what you're running now all the time.
Set the charging timers for each bank so that they Don't charge at the same time, (9:00 to 15:00 and 15:00 to 21:00).

That way one of them should be up all the time, and both for the nights.

I haven't done any complicated setups lately, so I can't comment on any bugs, but that Should be achievable pretty "linearly". Even adding a "backup switch" turning off the charging to activate the other circuit during charging.

 

[bobrpggamer]

I have thought of having switches after the solar just to turn on and charge the battery bank only when the components from the battery bank are off. This will work with lights for the most part as I only have them on from 20:00 - 5:00. It would be better than gassing up generators all the time I guess, but I thought the point of the solar bank and battery bank was to have everything working without the need to adjust anything at all.

The 24 hour components, I have not figured out in my brain how to do it yet, and need a lot of testing, and unfortunately testing this has to be just before solar dies at 22:00 to 4:00 each time I test. That's 1 test time every day, right before the solar goes off at 22:00. I could be wrong, but I believe the solar does not charge the batteries when the battery bank is powering components. You would think that if your battery bank is using 100 watts and the solar bank has 120 watts, why won't the solar bank spend the extra 20 watts to charge the batteries as they are being used, It does not make any sense.

Sorry if this does not make a lot of sense, but the solar to battery bank right now does not make much sense either.

 

[theFlu]

I have to completely turn off the solar bank or use a switch to stop it - even when the timer is supposed to stop it - before the battery bank to kicks on.

That sounds weird.. I'll give it a test in a bit.

If indeed Solar -> Timer -> Battery doesn't work, but Solar -> Switch -> Battery does; maybe Solar -> Timer -> Relay -> Battery might as well? The relay should be in the same category of things as the switch, maybe the timer is a trigger-component and for some reason the battery bank uses the "trigger signal passthrough"* to choose the powered state. Not that that would make much logical sense, but it might explain the behavior.

* A whole can of worms...

 

[Riamus]

I have thought of having switches after the solar just to turn on and charge the battery bank only when the components from the battery bank are off. This will work with lights for the most part as I only have them on from 20:00 - 5:00. It would be better than gassing up generators all the time I guess, but I thought the point of the solar bank and battery bank was to have everything working without the need to adjust anything at all.

The 24 hour components, I have not figured out in my brain how to do it yet, and need a lot of testing, and unfortunately testing this has to be just before solar dies at 22:00 to 4:00 each time I test. That's 1 test time every day, right before the solar goes off at 22:00. I could be wrong, but I believe the solar does not charge the batteries when the battery bank is powering components. You would think that if your battery bank is using 100 watts and the solar bank has 120 watts, why won't the solar bank spend the extra 20 watts to charge the batteries as they are being used, It does not make any sense.

Sorry if this does not make a lot of sense, but the solar to battery bank right now does not make much sense either.

It is just how they have charging set up. Now, here's the thing... In a normal setup, you put a full solar bank and a full battery bank and then your circuit. If they are full (you can have less on batteries, but I always do full), you can power the entire circuit 24/7 without ever running out of power. If you need more power than the single solar bank can produce, you add more solar banks with battery banks as needed. It really is a set and forget system if you set it that way. No need for timers. No need for figuring out watts used. Build your circuit up until you reach full usage and then start another if needed.

 

[theFlu]

The 24 hour components, I have not figured out in my brain how to do it yet, and need a lot of testing, and unfortunately testing this has to be just before solar dies at 22:00 to 4:00 each time I test.

Oh me, oh my ... this situation seems to be a mess atm. I have notes for a dozen tests and the results are ... bah. None of it actually works well, and makes even less sense. Solar shutting down (at 22:00) behind anything more complicated than a Relay messes up the state of the Battery Bank.

Here's the only setup that I can describe as "somewhat works":
Solar -> Timer -> Battery -> Timer2 (Off between 21:30 and 22:00) -> Blade
The first timer is the charge timing, of course.
The second timer, the Timer2 there manages to somehow re-wake the battery bank, after the solar goes to sleep. It will need to turn off power to the blade right before 22:00, until 22:00; makes it less than ideal, but it's the closest to a working solution I have atm. At least they'll run for the night.

My testing nonsense in a spoiler, in case someone wants to see what I tried:

Spoiler: Testing

Bug:
Solar power Lost power at 22:00, timer to Battery Bank was already off, but the Blade Trap being powered by the Batteries stops running. Still looks to be consuming power at the Battery, showing 20W.
Solar -> Timer -> Battery -> Blade

Tests:
1) To see if a relay helps to stop the "drop-out" effect:
Solar -> Timer -> Relay -> Battery -> Blade
Same deal.

2) To confirm the default case
Solar -> Battery -> Blade
Works fine, Battery takes over at 22:00, Blade keeps running.

3) To see if another timer can be used to alleviate the issue
Solar -> Timer -> Relay -> Battery -> Timer2 (Off between 21:30 and 22:30) -> Blade
Weirdly, works fine (an hour gap in the blade running, of course). The start at 22:30 turns the blade on.
Timer2 from 22:00 to 22:00 is always off, bah.
Timer2 from 22:00 to 21:30 works (the blade is off for the half hour leading to 22:00)
Timer2 from 23:00 to 22:30 ... fails at handover at 22:00. Mystically regains power from Battery Bank at the moment of turn off (22:30) Turns on the blade trap at 23:00.


4) If timer works, how about triggers: Trip Wire
Solar -> Timer -> Battery -> Trip Wire setup -> Blade
Same buggy deal, Trip Wire loses power and doesn't react


5) If timer works, how about triggers: Trigger plate
Solar -> Timer -> Battery -> Trigger Plate -> Blade

Base test after charging timer turns off doesn't work. Toggling stuff around, only detaching the charging timer reset the battery to normal?!?
Retry, same result ... turning the Solar Bank off and on restores battery function.
Another timer on THAT side?

Anyhoo, base test at 22:00.. standing on the trigger at 22:00, blade turns off. Stepping off and on, blade runs again..
50% success?


6) Another timer...
Solar -> Timer3 (Off at 22:00 for the handover, on whenever) -> Timer1 (Main charge) -> Battery -> Trigger Plate -> Blade
Sadly, doesn't work, blade still stops.
Swapping the order of the timers, and fiddleing with times, nope. The timers don't have power so they don't do much.


7) Just to see if the "Solar off" -signal passes through a trip wire.
Solar -> Timer -> Trip Wire setup -> Battery -> Blade
It does. Same buggy deal.

8) Just out of curiosity, do other components between Solar and Battery break the 22:00 handover?
Solar -> SOMETHING -> Battery -> Blade
Relay? Works fine.
Trigger Plate?
Not standing on it, no power flowing from Solar to Battery => Fails the handover.
Standing on it => Handover works. Stepping off of it though, turns off the blade.. that is AFTER the battery bank! => Fails the handover AFTER the handover ..?

 

[bobrpggamer]

3) To see if another timer can be used to alleviate the issue
Solar -> Timer -> Relay -> Battery -> Timer2 (Off between 21:30 and 22:30) -> Blade
Weirdly, works fine (an hour gap in the blade running, of course). The start at 22:30 turns the blade on.
Timer2 from 22:00 to 22:00 is always off, bah.
Timer2 from 22:00 to 21:30 works (the blade is off for the half hour leading to 22:00)
Timer2 from 23:00 to 22:30 ... fails at handover at 22:00. Mystically regains power from Battery Bank at the moment of turn off (22:30) Turns on the blade trap at 23:00.

This is good to know and I have an idea to charge the batteries with a generator during the 1/2 hour or hour that timer2 is off. Have the generator on a timer of the hour the battery bank is off with timer2 but not completely turned off. I do not know If I can have a solar and regular generator hooked up to the 1 battery bank. I usually get the "a parent cannot be hooked up to another parent" or something like that when I try this kind of thing.

I really thank you for the testing.

 

[theFlu]

I do not know If I can have a solar and regular generator hooked up to the 1 battery bank. I usually get the "a parent cannot be hooked up to another parent" or something like that when I try this kind of thing.

That's something we all try at some point, and sadly, no. You can't have two inputs to anything, and generators and solars can't have inputs at all. So you can only either go Solar + Batteries or Generator + Batteries in any one circuit. Never two generators, two solar banks or any combo of those.

I haven't actually tested if a battery bank can work as input for a battery bank; but I doubt it. That'd produce unlimited power with a bit of manual juggling, just from batteries.

 

[bobrpggamer]

I haven't actually tested if a battery bank can work as input for a battery bank; but I doubt it. That'd produce unlimited power with a bit of manual juggling, just from batteries.

I have so many powered components all over my base, I am trying to keep from gassing up every night to conserve fuel. I also do not want to juggle batteries either I don't have to.

It is just how they have charging set up. Now, here's the thing... In a normal setup, you put a full solar bank and a full battery bank and then your circuit. If they are full (you can have less on batteries, but I always do full), you can power the entire circuit 24/7 without ever running out of power. If you need more power than the single solar bank can produce, you add more solar banks with battery banks as needed. It really is a set and forget system if you set it that way. No need for timers. No need for figuring out watts used. Build your circuit up until you reach full usage and then start another if needed.

That is if the batteries are also being charged by the solar bank while the batteries are being used and are draining. I do not think the solar bank charges the batteries when the batteries are actively powering components. But I could be wrong, I don't know.

 

[theFlu]

That is if the batteries are also being charged by the solar bank while the batteries are being used and are draining.

They're not; if batteries are being charged, they don't power anything. So, in daytime you're powered entirely by solar, at night entirely by batteries. The max power you can pull from that is then obviously the smaller of the two, batteries can go to 300W, not sure of solar, might be a little less - but for sure more expensive / late game.

For the charging; nighttime is 6 hours (I think), so you have 18 hours to charge the 6 hours spent. As I estimated from my first test here, you charge at about 90W. Max you can discharge is 300W. That ends up pretty close to the same ratio, full 300W 6 hour discharge would need 100W of charge for 18 hours, we're just 10W short. So running at an average of 270W should be recoverable during a day.

 

[bobrpggamer]

The solar banks with 6 level 6 cells is unfortunately 180 watts max. Still have to power down

For the charging; nighttime is 6 hours (I think), so you have 18 hours to charge the 6 hours spent. As I estimated from my first test here, you charge at about 90W. Max you can discharge is 300W. That ends up pretty close to the same ratio, full 300W 6 hour discharge would need 100W of charge for 18 hours, we're just 10W short. So running at an average of 270W should be recoverable during a day.

The thing is the 18 hours charging the battery bank means the battery bank needs to be off (not powering anything - not turned off completely) 18 hours. So in general solar to battery bank means 18 hours downtime to recharge and only 6 hours use, which does not seem worth it. I more than likely misunderstood. If I did I'm sorry.

I could just have 2 solar banks and 2 battery banks and use the wire tool to switch between them. Better than using so much gas all the time anyway. I have a lot of components that add up to over 180 watts on some generators. I have to bring them down to 160 or something to run off the solar bank. I will just get creative with relays and my wire tool.

 

[theFlu]

So in general solar to battery bank means 18 hours downtime to recharge and only 6 hours use, which does not seem worth it. I more than likely misunderstood. If I did I'm sorry.

No, I think you got it right. I'll paraphrase a couple examples:
1) Max Power
Solar (200W) -> Battery (300W) (6x Q6) -> Load (300W)
If you run this setup, on daytime, only 195W worth of the Load is active. "Which part" is a bit hard to guess, but the 195 is max while the Battery is charging. In the night, the full drain goes on; if the batteries were 100% full, you'll go through the night easy. During the next day, you don't quite get topped up, so over time you'll end up empty. From there, with no changes, you'll charge up to that 90Wx18h in the day, so every night you'll be out of juice for 10% - roughly half an hour. Just a little less load will sort that out.

2) "Little less load"
Solar (200W) -> Battery (300W) (6x Q6) -> Load (100W) -> Camera -> 200W of turrets
Since the Cameras can be set up to see what the turrets see, you can save most of the price of the turrets. Now the setup is always functional, but in the daytime, only 100W of turrets will activate as the power isn't enough. But it will never drain the batteries dry.

3) Smarter loading (I hope the space-bar-spacing works, but you'll get the idea. parallel cameras):

Solar (60W) -> Battery (200W) (4x Q6) -> Camera1 -> 40W of turrets
                                      -> Camera2 -> 40W of turrets
                                      -> Camera3 -> 40W of turrets

As long as the "daytime traffic" doesn't need all turret setups firing at once, you're always just straight up good, saving plenty of solar panels. And horde nights happen at night, so all of the turrets are up for those.