Three points that will change the gameplay and replayability.

[Mr_Heavy]

Hello, my friends and I play 7 Days to Die and we've noticed a few things that slightly spoil the gameplay.

1. The trader, who showers you with rewards and turns survival into "just do all the trader's quests and you'll be fine."
2. The problem with barricades and traps—they are available everywhere, and this has more downsides than upsides. It would be nice to restrict their construction to the claim block territory and also limit the number of blocks to two per player, with a 30-minute placement penalty. Many players just rely on the spike mechanic and survive the first 20 days on them, and then their gameplay ends because they never really learned how to survive.
3. More of a wish than a call to action—I would like to change the behavior of the zombies so they don't head straight for the "thin platform of the zombie processing factory." I mean, a fortress with an obstacle course is fine, but the fact that it's impassable for zombies of any level just breaks the gameplay. For example, you could develop an optimal zombie pathing system so they would more often choose not to climb into the "meat grinder" but instead try to cross a moat and break down the actual building. The idea is for them not to group up in one spot but to attack from two or three sides simultaneously, preferring to break through the floor or a wall instead of the obvious death bridge. Maybe it makes sense to instill in them a reluctance to climb onto thin, 1-block-wide platforms.

In our own survival game, we try to build realistic fortifications, and the gameplay has become more difficult and interesting—we actually have to hold the line, and factors like supplies and unexpected breaches create great immersion. Perhaps my opinion will help improve the gameplay. If you're interested, videos about our experience will be coming out on my channel.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 2:27 AM

The trader's quests kill the gameplay with their huge rewards. It would be great if he occasionally rewarded you for reaching certain milestones, and instead of quests with insane rewards, he would simply give you map markers to interesting locations that might have cool loot.

 

[meganoth]

Is it possible that you simply play at an insufficient difficulty level?

Zombies already have a chance to attack a random block instead of following a path. But if that percentage were greatly increased, fans of tower defense would not be able to really make trap-infested paths and would constantly need to kill zombies attacking walls instead of targeting the paths they are supposed to come along.
Sadly their ability to break blocks, especially when grouping up, has been nerfed a lot in the last few years, to accommodate new players. But there is a config setting so that zombies do more damage to blocks, possibly you could turn that up as well as general difficulty, at least for your own game.
Also the setting how much damage zombies do when hitting a block together can be increased again, sadly only through a mod or editing xml

Preventing placement of traps would be a VERY controversial request though, many players are against artificial limitations, this genre mix is supposed to be a sandbox/open world as well. Just as an example, if someone wants to build a realistic fortification like you but also rely on traps for defense he would also need to place a lot more traps than someone employing a single access path and definitely more than any limit you might think of as effective limit.

A config setting to nerf the traders has been a top request on the forum for a long time, from me as well.

 

[Mr_Heavy]

Возможно, вы просто играете на недостаточно высоком уровне сложности?

У зомби уже сейчас есть шанс атаковать случайный блок вместо того, чтобы следовать по заданному пути. Но если этот процент значительно увеличится, поклонники жанра Tower Defense не смогут создавать ловушки на каждом шагу и будут постоянно вынуждены убивать зомби, атакующих стены, вместо того, чтобы целиться в те участки пути, по которым они должны идти.
К сожалению, их способность разрушать блоки, особенно когда они собираются в группы, была значительно ослаблена за последние несколько лет, чтобы соответствовать потребностям новых игроков. Но есть настройка, позволяющая зомби наносить больше урона блокам, возможно, вы сможете увеличить этот параметр, а также общую сложность, по крайней мере, для своей игры.
Также можно снова увеличить урон, наносимый зомби при столкновении блоков, к сожалению, только с помощью мода или редактирования XML-файла.

Запрет на размещение ловушек был бы ОЧЕНЬ спорным предложением, многие игроки против искусственных ограничений, ведь этот жанр, по идее, представляет собой смесь песочницы и открытого мира. Например, если кто-то хочет построить реалистичное укрепление, как вы, но при этом полагаться на ловушки для защиты, ему потребуется разместить гораздо больше ловушек, чем тому, кто использует один путь доступа, и уж точно больше, чем любое ограничение, которое вы могли бы считать эффективным.

Возможность ослабить торговцев — это давняя и одна из самых востребованных тем на форуме, и я сам её тоже давно хотел добавить.

I haven't been playing this game for long. I like its potential and flexibility. The in-game settings are set to maximum difficulty from the start—I haven't even tried the others. The point here isn’t to forbid doing something, but to limit stake spam and diversify interaction with the world. We don’t complete trader quests because they introduce significant imbalance; in the end, you become not a survivor but a hoarder.
It would be different if the trader simply shared interesting rumors with the player about locations in the style of: "I heard that workbenches/weapons/electronics were delivered to that warehouse," and so on.
As for stakes, a limitation is needed, but not an explicit one—for example, making their placement take longer, like an upgrade, 3–5 seconds. This wouldn’t hurt building and would reduce spam. People instantly chop down a tree and fill hordes with stakes, getting loot without any effort. But later, they either hide in a bunker or lose because all that time they weren’t really playing the game but trying to outsmart it.

 

[Mr_Heavy]

My experience is 150 hours. My settings are hardcore, blood moon every day +/- 1 day, death = reset. In the game, many people build bunkers that don't fall for 100 days even on hardcore—this is already both a plus and a minus of the game. The fact that on the first day you define yourself as a hamster in an aquarium, and stake spam creates a feeling of invulnerability.

My thought boils down to bringing defensive structures closer to their intended purpose. For example, you could make their placement require a blueprint first, then an upgrade with a stone axe to wood, and later to iron with an iron tool. This shouldn't be instant. Otherwise, I, as a player, will just run around, forget about the game, and go to a 5-skull area to spam stakes and kite zombies over them to get loot. Obviously, my current game stage wouldn't give me good loot, but the very fact that I can get a result without effort, only to find junk in the crate, is disappointing.

It's a different story if I can't spam instantly and have to use my wits and plan my adventure. A trader who gives hints based on rumors would complete the picture. There's no need to shower the player with treasures, vehicles, and top-tier loot for boring clearing missions—missions for which they'd get loot anyway.

 

[grz__]

Hello, my friends and I play 7 Days to Die and we've noticed a few things that slightly spoil the gameplay.

1. The trader, who showers you with rewards and turns survival into "just do all the trader's quests and you'll be fine."
2. The problem with barricades and traps—they are available everywhere, and this has more downsides than upsides. It would be nice to restrict their construction to the claim block territory and also limit the number of blocks to two per player, with a 30-minute placement penalty. Many players just rely on the spike mechanic and survive the first 20 days on them, and then their gameplay ends because they never really learned how to survive.
3. More of a wish than a call to action—I would like to change the behavior of the zombies so they don't head straight for the "thin platform of the zombie processing factory." I mean, a fortress with an obstacle course is fine, but the fact that it's impassable for zombies of any level just breaks the gameplay. For example, you could develop an optimal zombie pathing system so they would more often choose not to climb into the "meat grinder" but instead try to cross a moat and break down the actual building. The idea is for them not to group up in one spot but to attack from two or three sides simultaneously, preferring to break through the floor or a wall instead of the obvious death bridge. Maybe it makes sense to instill in them a reluctance to climb onto thin, 1-block-wide platforms.

In our own survival game, we try to build realistic fortifications, and the gameplay has become more difficult and interesting—we actually have to hold the line, and factors like supplies and unexpected breaches create great immersion. Perhaps my opinion will help improve the gameplay. If you're interested, videos about our experience will be coming out on my channel.

Post automatically merged: Yesterday at 2:27 AM

The trader's quests kill the gameplay with their huge rewards. It would be great if he occasionally rewarded you for reaching certain milestones, and instead of quests with insane rewards, he would simply give you map markers to interesting locations that might have cool loot.

I agree with the sentiment in general, but the problem is how to solve these issues without restricting the player. If you restrict construction only near a territory claim block, the difficulty would increase exponentially, which is fine, but the game is designed in such a way that the weight of the difficulty falls heavily on rock-hard zombies that can absorb a lot of damage, and you would end up going around in circles to kill a group of zombies, even though the territory claim block is actually cheap, the player would simply carry them around.


As for the trader and the rewards, it's true that they break survival a bit in the early game, but they add something to do in the late game. Perhaps a trust system with the trader that doesn't allow you to do missions until you earn their trust by doing small jobs with no reward could force you to survive on your own in the early game.



As for the anti-hordes, I more or less agree. Depending on how you build, the zombies will react differently. There are already things that can change the night horde and the strategy, such as the new zombies, the spitter and chuck, but they hardly ever appear on horde night and just run in a straight line like any other zombie, which takes away from their specialness. They could make Chuck and the Spitter launch their attacks from further away, destroying your base and forcing you to leave your safe zone to kill them,
but surely many people would think it's tedious or annoying and would end up nerfing it.

The game in general needs a hardcore mode that isn't afraid to explore concepts for fear of player reaction.

 

[Mr_Heavy]

I agree with the sentiment in general, but the problem is how to solve these issues without restricting the player. If you restrict construction only near a territory claim block, the difficulty would increase exponentially, which is fine, but the game is designed in such a way that the weight of the difficulty falls heavily on rock-hard zombies that can absorb a lot of damage, and you would end up going around in circles to kill a group of zombies, even though the territory claim block is actually cheap, the player would simply carry them around.


As for the trader and the rewards, it's true that they break survival a bit in the early game, but they add something to do in the late game. Perhaps a trust system with the trader that doesn't allow you to do missions until you earn their trust by doing small jobs with no reward could force you to survive on your own in the early game.



As for the anti-hordes, I more or less agree. Depending on how you build, the zombies will react differently. There are already things that can change the night horde and the strategy, such as the new zombies, the spitter and chuck, but they hardly ever appear on horde night and just run in a straight line like any other zombie, which takes away from their specialness. They could make Chuck and the Spitter launch their attacks from further away, destroying your base and forcing you to leave your safe zone to kill them,
but surely many people would think it's tedious or annoying and would end up nerfing it.

The game in general needs a hardcore mode that isn't afraid to explore concepts for fear of player reaction.

Well, regarding defensive structures, it's simple—they shouldn't be placed instantly. This would prevent them from being set up mid-combat and give the player a chance to prepare a retreat in advance, or else rely on their skills and weapons.

As for the trader, the trust system is an excellent idea. At the beginning, for example, he doesn't trust you because your game stage is low, so your reputation marks you as a novice. Later, he might entrust you with tasks, and eventually, even secrets.

The horde mechanics are developing well—after all, they're zombies. Introducing survivors, marauders, or military factions would be a nice addition to the gameplay, but that's more complex. Making barricade placement non-instant, however, is a simpler option to implement. Testing it wouldn't be difficult, and the gameplay would definitely change.

 

[grz__]

Well, regarding defensive structures, it's simple—they shouldn't be placed instantly. This would prevent them from being set up mid-combat and give the player a chance to prepare a retreat in advance, or else rely on their skills and weapons.

As for the trader, the trust system is an excellent idea. At the beginning, for example, he doesn't trust you because your game stage is low, so your reputation marks you as a novice. Later, he might entrust you with tasks, and eventually, even secrets.

The horde mechanics are developing well—after all, they're zombies. Introducing survivors, marauders, or military factions would be a nice addition to the gameplay, but that's more complex. Making barricade placement non-instant, however, is a simpler option to implement. Testing it wouldn't be difficult, and the gameplay would definitely change.

I would be completely in favor of the difficulty falling on the player's mechanical skill, reflexes, and reaction time, as well as having to think ahead. Unfortunately, the combat system is very simple, and I don't know to what extent they will be able to improve it. In addition, many of the mechanics and skill systems are designed to eliminate danger. For example, if you break your leg and are surrounded by zombies with certain death, you drink a megacrush and the problem is solved. But I like the idea of restricting construction to prevent nerdpooling and easily escaping from dangerous situations. Maybe not for everyone, but for a hardcore mode it would be great.


Also, for a supposed hardcore mode, remove buffs like the megacrush that basically eliminate all the difficulty of the game and the punishment for not playing well.


Supposedly, they are developing all kinds of options that will arrive in future versions. Also, with bandits, right now the only thing you can do is impose rules on yourself not to use those things or install mods such as increasing the number of zombies, etc.

 

[Mr_Heavy]

I would be completely in favor of the difficulty falling on the player's mechanical skill, reflexes, and reaction time, as well as having to think ahead. Unfortunately, the combat system is very simple, and I don't know to what extent they will be able to improve it. In addition, many of the mechanics and skill systems are designed to eliminate danger. For example, if you break your leg and are surrounded by zombies with certain death, you drink a megacrush and the problem is solved. But I like the idea of restricting construction to prevent nerdpooling and easily escaping from dangerous situations. Maybe not for everyone, but for a hardcore mode it would be great.


Also, for a supposed hardcore mode, remove buffs like the megacrush that basically eliminate all the difficulty of the game and the punishment for not playing well.


Supposedly, they are developing all kinds of options that will arrive in future versions. Also, with bandits, right now the only thing you can do is impose rules on yourself not to use those things or install mods such as increasing the number of zombies, etc.

With my settings, limited hours, and a few self-imposed rules—like realistic defense, traps only allowed at the base, no trader missions, no dealing fall damage to enemies, hardcore difficulty, death = reset, maximum zombies in settings, blood moon every day +/- 1 day, and the base in a pre-existing building—the game is holding up well. Progress moves forward on the edge of being wiped back to zero.

For the first 20 days, spikes and buffer rooms save you. But then the game hits you with four blood moons in a row, and the "timer to death" starts. You're forced to work on your tactics; you can't just plop a block in a doorway and call it a day. You experience all the genuine thrills of survival.

The reason I talk about limitations is simply because complete freedom kills immersion. It’s like playing with cheats or in creative mode. If building outside the base area were slowed down, and if constructing inside an enemy building alerted all zombies in the vicinity, people would start interacting more with the challenge of clearing areas that the developers designed—instead of just blocking entrances, placing a couple of blocks, and immediately carving out a room full of loot crates.

 

[Dead Smarty]

One of the issues with games and immersive is that this is completely subjective. I see your point of speedbuilding on the fly but on the other hand: A game day is not a real day. Also crafting in your inventory is not instantly so you need to prepare in advance if you want to trap on the fly. Time scaling is a strange beast...
Restricting traps to base only is realy unimersive to me, simple traps can be made from branches and twigs in the wild in real life so why not in the game?

 

[meganoth]

There were a lot of discussions on the forum about loot rooms being easily accessible if you know where they are. A lot of ideas like preventing nerd-poling were considered, by the developers as well. But ultimately the devs said they don't want to restrict lots of players that way as this is a sandbox game as well. And you should be aware that how you play is just one possibility of many. And changes to building will impact other players that don't treat this game as a shooter game.

I for example don't usually place traps in POIs I try to clear (mostly because I can kill the zombies without that and often forget that option in situations where I should do it). And I usually try to ignore information I have about a POI just because I played the game too many times. I never go directly for the loot room when doing quests. The game is partly a sandbox and because of this exploitable, you have the choice whether to exploit it and loose the fun in playing or don't do that.

There is a chance that specific game modes may ultimately be added to the game that would allow a lot more limitations.

 

[Riamus]

My overall opinion is simple. Let people play the way they want. Don't add restrictions just because of how you think they should play. If someone wants a ton of spikes, let them have them. No need for any delay. They might get easier loot, but they don't get any XP. It's really not a good way to do much more than slow things down or deal with screamers without having to actively deal with them. But if people want to use them, let them. It doesn't hurt your own game. As far as bases go, no matter what they do with the game other than having very different random ways that zombies can act so you can't plan for anything, some players will always find the best and safest base possible and use it. And even with different random zombie AI, there will still be certain builds that are just very strong. We have a lot of freedom in this game for building things, so it means we have freedom to make powerful bases. If players want to make those, let them. It isn't anyone else's job to control how they build. I prefer trying different things rather than using the same base every time, but others just want an easily defended base. And there isn't anything wrong with that.

Limiting speed for placing spikes also hinders players who play horde nights on the ground (no base). There are those who will drop spikes as they retreat to heal or regain stamina or whatever so it slows the zombies enough to get a second to do what they need to do. There are other ways they do this as well, but you'd entirely eliminate that option if they have to sit there for a few seconds until it can be placed.

If you want to remove freedom, that's what mods are for.

 

[Mr_Heavy]

I understand that we're in a sandbox and we all play according to our own scenarios. I simply pointed out the elements that introduce imbalance into the game—which, to some extent, can be a good thing. However, I singled out a few aspects that are relatively simple to address technically, yet impactful enough on gameplay to warrant attention.

I raised this issue in the discussion because I genuinely believe that these few points could significantly shape the gameplay experience. I think working on them could increase engagement, especially for new players.

I enjoy the freedom in this game, along with many other things, but the mediocre trader questline and the unbalanced placement of barricades bring the game closer to creative mode—if taken to the extreme, of course.

 

[Krunch]

The answer to almost all of this is and will probably always be, 'that's what mods are for'. That said, you mentioned the general Trader mechanics, that is one of the main things I would like to see dissected and rebuilt by TFP. More granular controls for traders, quest types, quest lines etc, all of those things could be easily managed through xml and a lot easier to manage, mod and control for player admins and overhaul geeks like us.

More control for player admins/modders over those features would allow for a lot more customization, which would lead to more variation in the different mods and overhauls people are able to create.

We are all on some level tied to this one mechanic is my main point here. The more options for moddable traders and quests, the more mileage everyone is able to get from the core features they provide for players and modders.

 

[Jost Amman]

My experience is 150 hours. My settings are hardcore, blood moon every day +/- 1 day, death = reset.

Sorry, I'm late to the discussion... I just wanted to say that I consider BM every day a setting that actually makes the game easier, not harder.

The reason is that, although it's a total rush having to defend through a BM almost immediately, as you said, if you start spamming spike traps and such, you can pull through the first days and, in the end, end up with A LOT of early loot that you wouldn't otherwise get with a normal gameplay.

My educated guess is (haven't tried BM every day myself) that you'll end up with a lot of weapons and armor and stuff, coming from dropped bags.
So, my suggestion is to try again with the same settings, but put back the Blood Moon every 7 days or so. I think it'll actually be harder that way.

What do you think?

 

[grz__]

With my settings, limited hours, and a few self-imposed rules—like realistic defense, traps only allowed at the base, no trader missions, no dealing fall damage to enemies, hardcore difficulty, death = reset, maximum zombies in settings, blood moon every day +/- 1 day, and the base in a pre-existing building—the game is holding up well. Progress moves forward on the edge of being wiped back to zero.

For the first 20 days, spikes and buffer rooms save you. But then the game hits you with four blood moons in a row, and the "timer to death" starts. You're forced to work on your tactics; you can't just plop a block in a doorway and call it a day. You experience all the genuine thrills of survival.

The reason I talk about limitations is simply because complete freedom kills immersion. It’s like playing with cheats or in creative mode. If building outside the base area were slowed down, and if constructing inside an enemy building alerted all zombies in the vicinity, people would start interacting more with the challenge of clearing areas that the developers designed—instead of just blocking entrances, placing a couple of blocks, and immediately carving out a room full of loot crates.

We have a similar philosophy when it comes to challenge. Unfortunately, the game is full of cheese tactics and OP items or weapons that take away from the experience and adrenaline rush of surviving on the edge. Technical limitations and performance issues don't help either. You can't have all the zombies in the POI alerted at the same time because you'd end up with 5 fps. I feel the same way about limiting certain things to increase the challenge and survival to a certain extent, in a separate difficulty mode. For now, we can only impose rules on ourselves and hope that the developers add new and interesting mechanics.

If you want to remove freedom, that's what mods are for.

that's what mods are for

I disagree. That's what mods are for. Game mechanics have already been changed or modified if you complain enough, which affects the freedom of how others play. In my case, I would do it in a separate game mode because I understand that we all have different tastes. Call it “hardcore” mode or whatever.