Tutorial

[InfiniteWarrior]

What do you think of splitting up the tutorial into two parts: one for basic gameplay and one for building?

I'm still running into the game/tutorial breaking issue of the game getting confused if the initial buried supplies job isn't finished before the tutorial is finished in my testing. If you do finish the odd job, the tutorial disappears with unfinished objectives, e.g. setting down a land claim block, building and upgrading a block, etc. They're still highlighed in the challenges menu, but the prompts disappear.

The beginning tutorial should be as short and sweet as possible, imo. Just the making tools/weapons/armor and harvesting intitial resources, etc., is enough, I think. The only obstacle to initializing a secondary tutorial for building is that the only trigger I can think of right off hand would be to trigger it when the player puts down a land claim block, which they probably won't even know to do, if a new player, or want to do, if a veteran player, until they've staked out a place they want to call home. So, there would have to be some other kind of trigger for the secondary tutorial.

Personally, I think the building portion is superfluous and unnecessary. Why am I placing a door if I haven't even built a wall? Why am I being asked to craft and place spike traps when there's nothing to trap? Won't most players just want to get on with playing the game already?

How about a dismissable UI message prompting players to consult the game's help system if they want to learn about building and trapping and yada-yada-yada?

Thoughts?

 

[ALEXZANDER]

Imho, current tutorial should go away from the game (tutorial achivements and etc)! Player should experience game himself!

For adequate tutorial, i could suggest to just make it skippable as option and make seperate special small world for it where u would learn everything u need!

 

[theFlu]

Personally, I think the building portion is superfluous and unnecessary. Why am I placing a door if I haven't even built a wall? Why am I being asked to craft and place spike traps when there's nothing to trap? Won't most players just want to get on with playing the game already?

I think the intent is to ignore that part, once you know what's up. The initial tutorial sorta makes sense, gets you the starting skill points and points you to the trader loop. Only the club is a waste half the time...

The base building stuff is more of an actual tutorial, doesn't give you all that much and gets replaced in the tracking by the quest loop. I do usually get it over with when running to/from the trader, all it means is there's a pointless land claim somewhere in the world, and a door, and a spike trap ... But I do it just to satisfy the optimizer in me, it's a bit of free XP, I honestly should just ignore it - but it's not like I have a better use for the time between the trader and the quest...

Overall, it feels a little clunky, but I'm not that bothered by it; at least it goes away and doesn't litter my screen with icons if I don't choose to opt in.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

Overall, it feels a little clunky

It's been more than just a little clunky in my experience. I'd have to test again (because no one seemed very interested in the phenomenon at the time), but my game crashed when (I think it was) I accepted the odd job, but didn't complete it and went ahead with getting those other objectives out of the way. It crashed when I tried to place the spike trap. If you complete that odd job before doing the building tutorial, the objectives just disappear from the UI while they remain highlighted in the challenges window.

Veterans know what to do out of the gate, of course, which is why I think the building tutorial superfluous at the very start of the game.

Thanks for the thoughts. This really needs attending by TFP, I think.

 

[Riamus]

The issue you're describing is due to there only being one tracked thing at a time. It doesn't matter if you are tracking a quest or a recipe or a challenge (including the "tutorial"). Only one thing can be tracked at a time. If you track something else, you'll replace what's already being tracked. You then have to track the original thing again if you want to see it again. I'm sure they could make it so you could track one of each item (one quest, one recipe, one challenge) at the same time. Shrink the font size a bit so you have more room to add a few things. If people aren't tracking anything except a quest, they won't notice any difference beyond the font size. For those who don't want to keep swapping back and forth when tracking different things, it will be an improvement.

As far as the "tutorial" goes, it's greatly improved over how it used to be, imo. It's still a bit of a nuisance for anyone who has played the game at least once, but I can complete the entire first section of challenges (the "tutorial") in a few minutes, not counting the time it takes to reach the trader. As far as the other "tutorial" challenges that aren't part of that initial group (such as placing a door), those I just do whenever I get around to it. In reality, half the challenges (rough estimate) are pointless since there isn't any actual challenge to them. Placing a door, upgrading a block, placing various workstations, etc. And some of those like placing workstations are just a pain in multiplayer because the only way to place them is either read a lot of the magazines that the main crafter needs or else every person dropping a land claim and moving a workstation, then removing the land claim so the next person can do so. It's a waste of time. They really should just add more things that take some actual effort to accomplish.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

The issue you're describing is due to there only being one tracked thing at a time. It doesn't matter if you are tracking a quest or a recipe or a challenge (including the "tutorial"). Only one thing can be tracked at a time. If you track something else, you'll replace what's already being tracked. You then have to track the original thing again if you want to see it again. I'm sure they could make it so you could track one of each item (one quest, one recipe, one challenge) at the same time. Shrink the font size a bit so you have more room to add a few things. If people aren't tracking anything except a quest, they won't notice any difference beyond the font size. For those who don't want to keep swapping back and forth when tracking different things, it will be an improvement.

As far as the "tutorial" goes, it's greatly improved over how it used to be, imo. It's still a bit of a nuisance for anyone who has played the game at least once, but I can complete the entire first section of challenges (the "tutorial") in a few minutes, not counting the time it takes to reach the trader. As far as the other "tutorial" challenges that aren't part of that initial group (such as placing a door), those I just do whenever I get around to it. In reality, half the challenges (rough estimate) are pointless since there isn't any actual challenge to them. Placing a door, upgrading a block, placing various workstations, etc. And some of those like placing workstations are just a pain in multiplayer because the only way to place them is either read a lot of the magazines that the main crafter needs or else every person dropping a land claim and moving a workstation, then removing the land claim so the next person can do so. It's a waste of time. They really should just add more things that take some actual effort to accomplish.

I hadn't changed which objective was tracked when my game crashed while setting a spike trap. That's why I think TFP need to take a look. Don't want any crashing, especially.

Don't get me started on the challenges window. ; ) The whenever-you-get-around-to-it approach is just natural gameplay. Those "challenges" are completed during the course of normal gameplay...unless you're the kind of player who wants to log in every day to complete daily and weekly "challenges" as though it's a live service game*. The two "scoreboards" I completed in FO76 I completed just playing through the game's content without ever once "kill(ing) a Wendigo while wearing a clown suit."

S'okay. The challenges window is there and easily accessible. So I'm leaning toward a dismissable UI pop-up that just directs players to that window after the initial armor/weapons/harvestables tutorial.

*Is it being turned into a live service game? Sure seems like it to me. And we all know what happened to that.

 

[Riamus]

I've had the game crash once since 2.0, but that could be for any number of reasons and it definitely wasn't while doing the intro challenges. Unless you share the log and event viewer log in the support forum so someone can try to track down the problem, there's little reason to think it really had anything to do with the challenges.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

How about a "Play Tutorial? Yes or No" pop-up when you first spawn in and no tutorial unless the player selects 'Yes'? 'Yes' would include all the objectives TFP feels are absolutely necessary that must be completed before the "head to settlement" objective. Then, that game crashing bug -- set up by interruption of the tutorial by that initial "buried supplies" odd job -- won't even be an issue because you won't even have been directed to the trader yet.

Elden Ring's tutorial is among the best I've ever seen. Just a little drop into an area designated for tutorial easily skipped. I don't think @ALEXZANDER's seperate, special small tutorial world would be necessary, though.

I understand the temptation to try to teach new players how and when and where to use everything in the game, which is where I think the build tutorial came from. TFP has no doubt been swamped with feedback requesting a tutorial about features and mechanics new players are utterly unfamiliar with, but new players really only need be directed to the challenge window somehow and given the opportunity to experiment and learn the game and its systems on their own.