PC V2.0 Storms Brewing Dev Diary

Novus25 said:
I can understand the game balance to sort of make character consume glass jar (though in earlier alphas jars could be reused as many times as possible) but making glass break mechanics as well as metal flask or other alternatives to store water could be more diversifying mechanics rather than limiting it to single use of a found jar. I think that having more options and mechanics rather than trying to cut or completely rework features will be a good idea.
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I wasn't criticizing any of Prebuilt's ideas. Only stating the truth that I haven't given any kind of rundown on how thirst and empty jars are going to work. I simply confirmed that jars are consumed upon use and explained my own opinion for why that is a good thing. I've read many cool ideas for water and I have nothing against doing a canteen or some other method of collecting and holding water-- and Prebuilt's ideas and suggestion sound fine to me-- they aren't new ideas and I've read them previously during the past couple of years.

TFP will make their own choice on how to implement it all and modders will take it into new directions which means everyone wins. No one implementation will please everyone so it is great that TFP allows and encourages modding. If Prebuilt takes his own alternate idea and makes a mod out of it I would probably give it a try for a different experience. I haven't tried his other mods yet but plan to as well as some others I've seen once we get to the last 2.x update while I'm waiting for 3.0.
 
IzPrebuilt said:
Hopefully this site has auto merging.

I'm telling you my opinion and giving the perspective of the thousands of people I hear from every day. If your idea of someone being king is essentially someone who gives criticism without glazing the devs then sure, I'm king. Lameass thing to be king of though.
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Sure yeh yeh. Everybody agrees with you. Especially those who follow your toxic i know it all streams. 🤷‍♂️
 
Fritzl said:
Sure yeh yeh. Everybody agrees with you. Especially those who follow your toxic i know it all streams. 🤷‍♂️
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I have no idea what his streams look like because I don't watch streams about this game. But your own post fits into the toxic category itself. Is being toxic or condemning someone the best way to respond to someone who does toxic streams (if that's even true for him)? Just something to consider.
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IzPrebuilt said:
Hopefully this site has auto merging.
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It does, but only if no one replies first and the new post happens within a certain time period (not sure how long that is, but it's at least a few minutes).
 
Fritzl said:
Sure yeh yeh. Everybody agrees with you. Especially those who follow your toxic i know it all streams. 🤷‍♂️
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I've never said everyone agrees with me. I'm quite aware they don't. There are still thousands that do. 7dtd has a big community and everyone gets to say what they like about it.

Don't know where you get the idea that my "streams" are "toxic" when I rarely stream in the first place but that's whatever. Toxicity is a very vague term but you'll find absolutely no racism,homophobia, sexism, transphobia, harassment, doxxing or any illegal content in my...content so I assume you mean toxicity as in me calling a company dumb for making decisions I disagree with? Cus that's true. I'm just making sure we're setting the record on what precisely you're talking about.
 
IzPrebuilt said:
...Your explanation of how the jars worked from your testing then? You explained to us how the jars will go away after use which is what I was referencing.
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Jars being used up after use is just one part. If I put too much meaning into "rundown" then I apologize. To me, a rundown is a full explanation and I haven't done that. faatal mentioned jars being consumed and then I gave my own perspective on that. At any rate, my thought is that most people will be glad to be able to collect water in jars at a water source. If you believe that they will be unsatisfied unless they also get the jar back that's also a possibility. But, that's what experimental is for. Once people play it and see how all the parts fit together they can give their feedback.

IzPrebuilt said:
Are you suggesting that I'm some puppet master warping the minds of the community against 7dtd? That sentiment is going to age very poorly in the next 7 days and you'll see why shortly. Hell, maybe word will make it through the grapevine to you and you'll see why before it happens. Regardless, You're MASSIVELY overestimating my community influence lmao, I have 77k subscribers not 1 million.
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Well I did say as far as your reach extends. I never said you were a puppetmaster of the entire community though you may mutter that to yourself while staring into your mirror each morning.... ;)

Yeah, I have no idea what you're talking about as far as something happening within the next 7 Days. Whatcha got planned?

IzPrebuilt said:
I'm not entirely sure what you think you're getting at here? Are you suggesting that I send anyone to this place for anything? Because I do not.
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I've seen a few of your streams. You've established your own persona and attitude towards TFP. You don't have to overtly send anyone anywhere but negativity and spite are the waters you like to swim in. <shrug> It's fine. You've found a niche that gets you views and subscriptions. It's funny how "influencer" is your proud job/hobby description until you don't want to be tied at all to the influence you exert.

At any rate, you have some good ideas and your mods have been well received so I appreciate the additive elements you have contributed to the game for the community. I think criticism and influence for change can be done in a respectful and nontoxic manner (which I know doesn't make for good tv) and unfortunately you've decided to go all in on toxicity.

I mean even your mod reveal videos which could have been really positive videos were full of slams and insults towards the very devs that made your modding possible to do. It's fine. It's your show.

IzPrebuilt said:
Um yeah I actually wrote a script that was playing devils advocate for the jars change which was related to the post you were responding to actually.
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huh...devil's advocate in FAVOR of the jar change? Give me the time stamp of that monologue and I'll give it a listen. :)
 
IzPrebuilt said:
I'm telling you my opinion and giving the perspective of the thousands of people I hear from every day. If your idea of someone being king is essentially someone who gives criticism without glazing the devs then sure, I'm king. Lameass thing to be king of though.
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Your opinion is valued and it was heard. You are afraid that only bringing back empty jars to let players gather their water from a source won't be enough to appease the majority of players who were angry when they were removed. You think that keeping them disappearing after use will make it so the larger portion of these people will remain angry. Your suggestion is to either bring back jars including their persistence after use or get rid of them completely and go to a new model where you can press E at a source and just get bottles of murk or perhaps a canteen or water vessel mechanic-- but in essence something completely different to get away completely from all the jar mess.

You expressed your criticism here without "glazing the devs" at all. You were to the point, didn't utter one disrespectful jibe. You didn't call them lazy, or stupid, or dumb, or dishonest at all. You also didn't stroke their ego or compliment them. You just gave your honest assessment and your suggestions. So if you can do what you did here without "glazing" then what do you call what you do in your videos? There is a huge continuum of behavior between being glazing and being completely toxic and you could improve the tone of your videos a fair amount without ever even being close to being accused of glazing them. You proved today you CAN criticize and make suggestions respectfully without it being glazing. The question is WILL you make that choice in your videos?

Probably not. You did want to quit playing 7 Days to Die altogether but felt you couldn't because of your audience expectations. How would you ever quit the insults and negativity if that is what your audience expects? The corners we paint ourselves into...
 
Roland said:
Jars being used up after use is just one part. If I put too much meaning into "rundown" then I apologize. To me, a rundown is a full explanation and I haven't done that.
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I assume I just used the word rundown wrong then. Apologies for that misunderstanding regardless. Yes I was referring to that piece of information about jars vanishing.
Roland said:
Well I did say as far as your reach extends. I never said you were a puppetmaster of the entire community though you may mutter that to yourself while staring into your mirror each morning.... ;)
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No but you did make insinuations that *I* think myself as someone capable of that influence when I don't particularly think I have a significant influence at all. When I say something about 7dtd I'm greeted with individuals who will agree or disagree. The ones that agree gravitate more to me. Which makes sense. And come now Roland you know I don't mutter that to myself while staring into the mirror each morning. I can't stand to look myself in the eyes, you know that.
Roland said:
I've seen a few of your streams. You've established your own persona and attitude towards TFP. You don't have to overtly send anyone anywhere but negativity and spite are the waters you like to swim in.
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My negativity stems from legitimate distaste for the changes. I dislike the insinuation that it's a fake persona. My spite stems from pattern recognition. However if you were more informed of my recent content you'd see some considerable changes towards apathy and cautious optimism more than spite or negativity. I've learned by now that spite and negativity is really just me getting annoyed at people who wouldn't care if I was hit by a train. Which is a bad use of one's mental resources.
Roland said:
Yeah, I have no idea what you're talking about as far as something happening within the next 7 Days. Whatcha got planned?
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7 Days give or take I'm not sure of the exact time it'll take. But I have something that I'm fairly certain nobody else has that may turn a lot of negative opinion on something into positive opinion. I don't want to get specific in case it falls through though. Counting eggs and all that.
Roland said:
It's funny how "influencer" is your proud job/hobby description until you don't want to be tied at all to the influence you exert.
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Influencer is NOT my proud job Roland. I make youtube videos. Influencers are 40 million follower instagram accounts selling make up. I just talk about a video game. Nor do I think i exert any particular influence at all. With the exception of the upcoming project all I'm doing is talking about my thoughts of a game and people come to me. There's no generation of influence with that. The upcoming thing's unique nature may actually be something that could be called "influential" but I still decline the title.
Roland said:
you've decided to go all in on toxicity.
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Then evidently we simply disagree on what toxicity is. Playground insults are not comparable to legitimate harmful behaviors which are what I would label as toxicity, as mentioned in an above comment nor am I in anyway inciting violence, hatred or anything like that against the devs. Any of the things that I would call "toxic behaviors" are things that would get me kicked off of youtube for breaking TOS but... I'm playing completely reasonably, if with childish insults sure. If you want to talk about toxic behaviors we can talk about the legitimate psychos I see from legitimately calling for death, violence or worse (yuck the internet) against the developers...for the crime of ....? Not being perfect at their jobs? Certainly I've never called for any kind of firings, any kind of boycotts, even against Blood Moons and the $10 skins I've only given my opinions and asked for my viewers opinions back.

Roland said:
huh...devil's advocate in FAVOR of the jar change? Give me the time stamp of that monologue and I'll give it a listen.
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I'm not sure what video I'm even gonna put this in but basically the rough idea is that I understand the desire to keep jars abstract and I understand the want to maintain some level of scarcity of water by not giving those jars back. I just don't think it's the best way it could have been handled though it's definitely an improvement over what we have now.
 
Roland said:
The question is WILL you make that choice in your videos?

Probably not. You did want to quit playing 7 Days to Die altogether but felt you couldn't because of your audience expectations. How would you ever quit the insults and negativity if that is what your audience expects? The corners we paint ourselves into...
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Roland I know it's stupid to expect you to watch my content but you could at least glance at the channel to see if I *have* made that choice.

The red marked out videos don't really pertain to criticism or opinion in anyway so ignore them. The green videos are ones where I either am positive about 7 days to die or discuss with relative maturity my issues with 7dtd. The bloodmoons video is a mixed bag it's pretty critical but in that I even say "I want to see this game succeed but only if it deserves it" and there's certainly no instances of me insulting the Illogika devs.

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Riamus said:
I have no idea what his streams look like because I don't watch streams about this game. But your own post fits into the toxic category itself. Is being toxic or condemning someone the best way to respond to someone who does toxic streams (if that's even true for him)? Just something to consider.
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It does, but only if no one replies first and the new post happens within a certain time period (not sure how long that is, but it's at least a few minutes).
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Just go and watch some yourselve. You ll get what i mean. The God of gamedesign putting his wrath on TFP. You re welcome.
 
Fritzl said:
Just go and watch some yourselve. You ll get what i mean. The God of gamedesign putting his wratch on TFP. You re welcome.
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Why? As I said, I don't watch streams or videos for this game and have no interest in doing so.

People are free to make whatever videos they want and to make them in any way they want. I may not like how they talk or act or what they say or believe, but that doesn't mean they don't have the right to do such videos or streams. I also have the choice not to watch them. But that doesn't mean we should be toxic towards someone because we don't like their content. Otherwise, we're just the same as them.
 
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Roland said:
I wasn't criticizing any of Prebuilt's ideas. Only stating the truth that I haven't given any kind of rundown on how thirst and empty jars are going to work. I simply confirmed that jars are consumed upon use and explained my own opinion for why that is a good thing. I've read many cool ideas for water and I have nothing against doing a canteen or some other method of collecting and holding water-- and Prebuilt's ideas and suggestion sound fine to me-- they aren't new ideas and I've read them previously during the past couple of years.

TFP will make their own choice on how to implement it all and modders will take it into new directions which means everyone wins. No one implementation will please everyone so it is great that TFP allows and encourages modding. If Prebuilt takes his own alternate idea and makes a mod out of it I would probably give it a try for a different experience. I haven't tried his other mods yet but plan to as well as some others I've seen once we get to the last 2.x update while I'm waiting for 3.0.
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I did not assume you criticized Prebuilt, I only expressed in respectful and polite way my personal vision of possible mechanics for the water usage and storage gameplay mechanics. I am thankful for your responce with detailed explanation of new features as well. I would like to try to collaborate with some modders or try on my own some of the game mechanics features implementations in the future when I have more free time.
 
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