*Realistic* Learning

[KeithFromCanada]

Bottom line regarding learning: In actual reality, skill progression is in the form of a tree, where you alternate between theory and practice, and, while you can choose only to follow the main trunk, you can *also* spend time exploring its many, MANY branches that fractally subdivide and take you to some pretty interesting places once you have the prerequisites down pat.

Ignoring either theory OR practice while giving players mastery of a subject just doesn't work, as the sheer volume of bitter complaints has made perfectly clear. It isn't realistic OR believable, and we all know it.

What's more, most magazine articles only explore a tiny bit of one of the more interesting branches, and are only suited for those who already have some familiarity with the subject. If you actually want to *LEARN* about it, you need a textbook series that lays out the whole tree--or at least the main trunk--and you need to go through them in order to actually grasp what is being taught. (Yes, you can attempt to figure out calculus while you are still learning the basics of algebra, but you won't get very far, and you will be stumped very hard, very fast.)

PLEASE spend some time considering how to accurately reflect real-life learning in the game.

 

[JonM]

Ever play CDDA? It has pretty much what you're describing. Every skill has a 'theory' and 'practice' level. Theory is developed almost entirely through reading, practice is developed through doing. Theory dictates what you can attempt, practice dictates how good your attempt is. Practice level cannot go above theory level, and practice is subject to skill degradation if a skill isn't used for a long time however practice exp is given a generous buff whenever it is lower than theory exp, making it easy to recover. The result is that the optimal way to level is to spend time reading about a skill, and then spend some time putting what you've read into practice. If you're about to do a high value craft or use a skill in combat and you've not used the skill for a while, it pays to spend an in-game hour or 2 practicing to refresh yourself on it. To complement this, the game has 'practice recipes' for various levels of each skill which were added to replace the 'craft a bunch of useless crap to level up' problem. Practice recipes are far more material efficient, many of them having no material cost, and they give no output - they simply serve to provide a means to practice a skill (soldering simple circuits, operating lab equipment, carving a stick, etc).

For the 'branches' you're describing, it has proficiencies - more specialised aspects of skills that vastly improve the related actions once you master them. So in tailoring you only need a given skill level to make a pair of socks, but you'll do it a lot faster if you're proficient in stretch fabric working, sewing, articulated joints, etc. For smithing you have proficiencies in toolsmithing, blade smithing, redsmithing, blacksmithing, etc. None are necessary, but they make a big impact on crafting times to any item with a matching proficiency tag.

The system sounds kinda complex when typed out, but the way it works in game is very intuitive since it maps so well to how real-life learning works.

 

[Jost Amman]

No, please, it's a game, we don't need any "realistic" and tedious crap.
If you like that either download a mod, or play a simulation game, you'll be happier.

 

[Syphon583]

While I think the game could use a more dynamic way of learning, please for the love of god, DO NOT make it realistic. I do not want to read a series of *books* in a certain order to learn something. That sounds tedious as hell. I also think you're getting hung up on semantics. Yes, in the game they're referred to as crafting magazines, but think of them any way you want. They work perfectly well they way they are.

If I were to suggest a change, it would be that magazines (or whatever the hell you want to call them) would help the player learn recipes, and reading additional magazines could increase your skill incrementally or be required to advance to the next tier. However, actually crating said item would be an alternate way to increase your crafting skill. Both are valid, and it could be made so that crafting would increase your skill a bit faster than reading. I still like the magazines for actually learning the recipe for each item/tier. Simply crafting a double barrel shotgun over and over again should NOT unlock the recipe for a pump action, for example.

 

[stallionsden]

Bottom line regarding learning: In actual reality, skill progression is in the form of a tree, where you alternate between theory and practice, and, while you can choose only to follow the main trunk, you can *also* spend time exploring its many, MANY branches that fractally subdivide and take you to some pretty interesting places once you have the prerequisites down pat.

Ignoring either theory OR practice while giving players mastery of a subject just doesn't work, as the sheer volume of bitter complaints has made perfectly clear. It isn't realistic OR believable, and we all know it.

What's more, most magazine articles only explore a tiny bit of one of the more interesting branches, and are only suited for those who already have some familiarity with the subject. If you actually want to *LEARN* about it, you need a textbook series that lays out the whole tree--or at least the main trunk--and you need to go through them in order to actually grasp what is being taught. (Yes, you can attempt to figure out calculus while you are still learning the basics of algebra, but you won't get very far, and you will be stumped very hard, very fast.)

PLEASE spend some time considering how to accurately reflect real-life learning in the game.

sheer volume???

a handful i would more say and that handful could be 10000 players but there are 25 million players whom dont want it... so your sheer numbers become irrelevant

 

[SabinSnake]

While I think the game could use a more dynamic way of learning, please for the love of god, DO NOT make it realistic. I do not want to read a series of *books* in a certain order to learn something. That sounds tedious as hell. I also think you're getting hung up on semantics. Yes, in the game they're referred to as crafting magazines, but think of them any way you want. They work perfectly well they way they are.

If I were to suggest a change, it would be that magazines (or whatever the hell you want to call them) would help the player learn recipes, and reading additional magazines could increase your skill incrementally or be required to advance to the next tier. However, actually crating said item would be an alternate way to increase your crafting skill. Both are valid, and it could be made so that crafting would increase your skill a bit faster than reading. I still like the magazines for actually learning the recipe for each item/tier. Simply crafting a double barrel shotgun over and over again should NOT unlock the recipe for a pump action, for example.

Yeah really. There's probably many kids that play this game and they wouldn't be able to understand stuff like what he's purposing. Not to mention it'd take forever to get anywhere.