I gave storms a chance but im glad they are being changed

[Kyoji]

Also am I the only one who doesn't like the storm warning? One of the core principles in game design is "Show, not tell", I really hate this kind of handholding, it would be nice to have the storm visible in the distance that is approaching, but that would require some effort to do. I guess it could be still signaled to the player via loud thunders at least, it's just killing the immersion when you are basically a walking weather radar.

I agree, there are better ways to signal a storm approaching. I don't mind a timer warning based on some form of tech you could get from a trader, but that timer should be more discrete and off to the side instead of a massive warning in your face.

On another note, it would be nice to see variable storm intensity. Like perhaps a level 1 storm will be less impactful than what we currently have and every level 1 storm has a percentage chance to evolve into a level 2 storm (chance scaling with playtime perhaps?) which is about what we have now and then a level 3 storm where the effects are magnified.

The effects of the storm would be nice to see tied in with temperature so cold, overheating, and some other things for rain, smoke and radiation.

Was playing my vanilla-ish run yesterday and was on my way to Jen's for the first time. Dealt with her and was about to leave her place when the storm warning kicked in. Hopped on my minibike and took off thinking I could get back to the forest before it set in. Realized I wasn't gonna make it and I was one mushroom short of another serum so I knew if I stayed outside I would likely die when the biome hazard kicked in on top of the storm, so I ducked into a house I didn't recognize to get out of the storm. Stayed in there and cleared the basement area which was where the loot ended up being. By the time I did that and organized my stuff, the storm was pretty much over.

I really don't get the outrage. People just don't wanna have to adapt.

I don't think it's "hate" necessarily as much as it is trying to think of ways to improve upon it. For me what you stated is why I think it could be more than just a heavy DoT. You spent the time inside and missed out on the storm which in itself isn't bad but when it's the only feasible option, other than spamming medkits, then I think it would be nice to lower the DoT a bit but add other side effects to the storms that don't outright prohibit you from going outside.

 

[grz__]

I don't think it's "hate" necessarily as much as it is trying to think of ways to improve upon it. For me what you stated is why I think it could be more than just a heavy DoT. You spent the time inside and missed out on the storm which in itself isn't bad but when it's the only feasible option, other than spamming medkits, then I think it would be nice to lower the DoT a bit but add other side effects to the storms that don't outright prohibit you from going outside.

Well, “improving” it depends on who you ask.


And tfp is supposed to be adjusting the damage for future versions.


What is your vision or ideas for improving storms because some suggestions I've seen are horrible. For me, debuffs should be part of the temperature and intensify in the storm, which should have its damage effect. If you remove the damage, you remove the danger. It's that simple. Stamina and speed debuffs can also be counteracted with the drinks in the game. Have you thought about that? The result would be a watered-down storm that has no impact on the player.

spamming medkits

Spamming medkits could be replaced by personal protective equipment that mitigates damage, something I suggested since 2.0 came out.

 

[warmer]

Not giving players the option of adding mods to clothing to deal with the storms is a missed gameplay opportunity in my opinion. We used to have all of these things when individual clothing pieces vs armor sets was a thing.

 

[Mister Forgash]

What is your vision or ideas for improving storms because some suggestions I've seen are horrible. For me, debuffs should be part of the temperature and intensify in the storm, which should have its damage effect. If you remove the damage, you remove the danger. It's that simple. Stamina and speed debuffs can also be counteracted with the drinks in the game. Have you thought about that? The result would be a watered-down storm that has no impact on the player.

I know you're not really asking me.. but lets say for example.. you're getting the wet debuff during the storm, maybe after 30% wetness you're slowed by 5%, At 65% wet that's 10%, and at 100% wet you're 15% slowed until you dry off- easy and quick to fix with a little shelter and fire.

For the damage portion of the storm, I'm not suggesting it be removed, but lowered.. That said, while at work I was thinking about it a little.. what if staying out in the storm gave you increasing stacks of 'Storm exposure' .. it can be named whatever, anyhow though, I'd then expand that and say if you've only been in the storm for a little bit, your exposure stays low but say.. every ~5-10 sec you get another stack, increasing the damage you're taking from the storm.. so if you're outside running between homes and you're only outside 10-15 seconds.. you barely felt it. But if you've been out for say.. 30-40 seconds, that stacking damage is getting pretty mean by then, and you really don't want to get hit by the next tick of damage when it has a 5x multiplier on there.

Maybe there would be another debuff involved (Perhaps something tied in with each biome, making the storms feel a little more related to the location they're happening) but I think something like this would feel better. Particularly, having the damage start lower and potentially growing to ticks that are higher than they are now would keep the storm's approximate threat potential where its been, while giving the player more ability to reposition and maybe feel like they're still able progress towards what they were originally trying to do.

Alternatively, I also really like what was mentioned earlier with the storms having variable intensity throughout the duration leading to parts of it being mild, and an apex that is potentially very deadly.
.. but I think variable intensity storms would be more work to implement whereas adjusting the damage formula is probably a lot faster.

 

[grz__]

I know you're not really asking me.. but lets say for example.. you're getting the wet debuff during the storm, maybe after 30% wetness you're slowed by 5%, At 65% wet that's 10%, and at 100% wet you're 15% slowed until you dry off- easy and quick to fix with a little shelter and fire.

Feel free to share your thoughts, that's what the forum is for. I like the idea of debuffs that can complement each other, but the problem is that sometimes people don't think about the consequences. Let's say you have a wet debuff that affects your stamina and speed. What happens if you drink a megacrush? Basically, it would be like pressing a button to turn off the storm. If you base the storm solely on those debuffs, as has been suggested on occasion.

For the damage portion of the storm, I'm not suggesting it be removed, but lowered.. That said, while at work I was thinking about it a little.. what if staying out in the storm gave you increasing stacks of 'Storm exposure' .. it can be named whatever, anyhow though, I'd then expand that and say if you've only been in the storm for a little bit, your exposure stays low but say.. every ~5-10 sec you get another stack, increasing the damage you're taking from the storm.. so if you're outside running between homes and you're only outside 10-15 seconds.. you barely felt it. But if you've been out for say.. 30-40 seconds, that stacking damage is getting pretty mean by then, and you really don't want to get hit by the next tick of damage when it has a 5x multiplier on there.

Maybe there would be another debuff involved (Perhaps something tied in with each biome, making the storms feel a little more related to the location they're happening) but I think something like this would feel better. Particularly, having the damage start lower and potentially growing to ticks that are higher than they are now would keep the storm's approximate threat potential where its been, while giving the player more ability to reposition and maybe feel like they're still able progress towards what they were originally trying to do.

Alternatively, I also really like what was mentioned earlier with the storms having variable intensity throughout the duration leading to parts of it being mild, and an apex that is potentially very deadly.
.. but I think variable intensity storms would be more work to implement whereas adjusting the damage formula is probably a lot faster.

And I'm in favor of balancing the damage, perhaps with craftable protection, but we have to think carefully about how to avoid making the storm trivial by simply putting on armor, because you can make those dangerous situations where you have to react disappear.

I like the idea of phases and all that, but the only problem here is that, realistically, TFP isn't going to complicate things by doing something that's difficult to program, which is why my suggestions are based on the version we have. I wish there were new unique effects like radiation, where you need specific medication and specific protection, with some areas more radioactive than others and a radiation counter, but... you know, maybe we'll see a mod someday that does something like that.

 

[Mister Forgash]

What happens if you drink a megacrush?

This is a consequence of the megacrush existing, it will always be a benefit to have one if you expect you're going to need to make a fast get away. this power makes it valuable and if anything, giving it situations where it particularly excels adds another reason why it might deserve a spot in your vehicle or drone depending on how your inventory looks.
I'm not someone that advocates for removing the damage component completely, I wish I knew the right answer, I can only attempt to give good feedback. Even a stacking debuff is probably too much.
Maybe a simpler approach that still think moves it in the right direction.. Instead of 10..15? However much damage it is per tick, it's just moved to a simple
~7 Damage, +1 for each consecutive tick.
I think this stays true to the intention and remains very easy to tweak by raising or lowering the first number (Since other changes such as debuffs may be involved that make storms more dangerous) but is slightly more forgiving if you're outside for a few ticks of damage.
And then storm protection mods would just be like -1 or 2 storm damage per tick, perhaps having several of them would keep you protected from the storm entirely for the first few ticks before the damage adds up.

I like the idea of phases and all that, but the only problem here is that, realistically, TFP isn't going to complicate things by doing something that's difficult to program, which is why my suggestions are based on the version we have. I wish there were new unique effects like radiation, where you need specific medication and specific protection, with some areas more radioactive than others and a radiation counter, but... you know, maybe we'll see a mod someday that does something like that.

I know, asking for things like.. storm phases is a bit much.. I'm hoping we see some degree of biome specific storms.. even if it's just something like extreme heat/cold in the desert/snow

 

[Kyoji]

What is your vision or ideas for improving storms because some suggestions I've seen are horrible. For me, debuffs should be part of the temperature and intensify in the storm, which should have its damage effect. If you remove the damage, you remove the danger. It's that simple. Stamina and speed debuffs can also be counteracted with the drinks in the game. Have you thought about that? The result would be a watered-down storm that has no impact on the player.

An example for the cold biome:

• A simple reduction of the base storm DoT to make it more manageable.
• The cold biome would intensify the DoT based on temperature range.
• Things like eating food, having a torch, having insulation effects such as clothing or mods would offset some of the temperature.
• Falling behind the temperature scale you get into debuffs that scale with the temp range your player falls into. With small debuffs leading to larger debuffs like another small DoT.
• The cold debuff could increase over time in storms meaning the longer you are outside you will feel colder until you can get to a place indoors.
• The scale for ease of understanding is -50 to 50. The more things you do to warm up would push you closer to 50 while being outside longer or having fewer insulators, food, torch, etc would push you towards -50

Something along these lines may work with some tweaks since you didn't like the zombie increase, to which I can understand.

The specifics may be debatable, but the general idea is that you can still have a lot of danger with storms, but now you have made them more interactable. So much like you said about PPE, you have normal insulators that work in the snow biome but now can offer some benefit during storms. The idea is that storms are more deadly earlier in the game but become something you can slowly overcome to a degree with mid game insulators and food/torches. It allows players to be outside for longer periods of time while also having something to manage and watch.

 

[grz__]

This is a consequence of the megacrush existing, it will always be a benefit to have one if you expect you're going to need to make a fast get away. this power makes it valuable and if anything, giving it situations where it particularly excels adds another reason why it might deserve a spot in your vehicle or drone depending on how your inventory looks.

Yes, that's what that drink is for. In fact, I always carry them on my belt since I play with permadeath and it's basically a lifesaver. What I mean is that it could be too easy to cancel some debuffs and nullify the effect of danger.

I'm not someone that advocates for removing the damage component completely, I wish I knew the right answer, I can only attempt to give good feedback. Even a stacking debuff is probably too much.
Maybe a simpler approach that still think moves it in the right direction.. Instead of 10..15? However much damage it is per tick, it's just moved to a simple
~7 Damage, +1 for each consecutive tick.
I think this stays true to the intention and remains very easy to tweak by raising or lowering the first number (Since other changes such as debuffs may be involved that make storms more dangerous) but is slightly more forgiving if you're outside for a few ticks of damage.
And then storm protection mods would just be like -1 or 2 storm damage per tick, perhaps having several of them would keep you protected from the storm entirely for the first few ticks before the damage adds up.

Progressive damage could work well for that; it could be craftable protective equipment, allowing you to stay outside at first and then accumulating and becoming increasingly complicated.
It could replace burning bandages, but we would have to see how it balances and test it.

I know, asking for things like.. storm phases is a bit much.. I'm hoping we see some degree of biome specific storms.. even if it's just something like extreme heat/cold in the desert/snow

I'm not saying it's not possible, just that sometimes expectations exceed what is delivered.

 

[grz__]

An example for the cold biome:

• A simple reduction of the base storm DoT to make it more manageable.
• The cold biome would intensify the DoT based on temperature range.
• Things like eating food, having a torch, having insulation effects such as clothing or mods would offset some of the temperature.
• Falling behind the temperature scale you get into debuffs that scale with the temp range your player falls into. With small debuffs leading to larger debuffs like another small DoT.
• The cold debuff could increase over time in storms meaning the longer you are outside you will feel colder until you can get to a place indoors.
• The scale for ease of understanding is

That is, apart from the damage over time, this is how the temperature system should work, with or without a storm. However, when the storm begins, the effects of the storm combine with the temperature, which is how it should be, and as I have said in previous comments, the exact way in which it is implemented may vary.

My point is that you have to be careful when reducing damage, as some debuffs can be easily negated with drinks and other buffs in the game, resulting in you being able to ignore the storm.

Something along these lines may work with some tweaks since you didn't like the zombie increase, to which I can understand.

I'm not saying I don't like the idea of increasing the spawn of zombies in the storm; in fact, I use mods for that.

What I meant was that the storm has to have its own effects, cold wind, damage, etc. Zombies have nothing to do with a storm, that's what I meant. I understand that it's just one example among many other things.

The specifics may be debatable, but the general idea is that you can still have a lot of danger with storms, but now you have made them more interactable. So much like you said about PPE, you have normal insulators that work in the snow biome but now can offer some benefit during storms. The idea is that storms are more deadly earlier in the game but become something you can slowly overcome to a degree with mid game insulators and food/torches. It allows players to be outside for longer periods of time while also having something to manage and watch.

This is where balance is important, and I insist that you have to be careful not to reduce the damage too much, because if you think about it, storms are dangerous at first, but you can overcome them as you progress through the game, when your health bar is above 120 and you have a good supply of meds.

Now, is it strange to have to use bandages against a storm? Yes, but protective equipment would be a substitute for this.

 

[Motimus Prime]

We're all getting used to the new system. but its 13 damage every 13 seconds after like 70+ seconds of advanced warning. You have a ton of time to decide if you can make it home or where exactly you want to ride it out.

You actually have alot of choices. It's more than 60 seconds of full travel speed. My friend on a minibike made it almost from the forest biome to the mansion on top of the hill in the snow biome in Navezgane in that time. The only reason he died is that he stopped to bandage on the exact wrong stretch of the incline and his minibike didn't have the power to get going, and then he had to get off and kill a zombie, so he basically lost 15 seconds. Had he just powered through he would have arrived safely.

But along the way he passed several POIs and, failing that, he could have done the good ole minecraft pop up hut OR gone back to the forest biome. Or you could dig into the ground or a hill. You have options.

Un my example above I chose to keep doing active POIs with zombies in one of the most open large POIs (the Lumbermill) and was absolutely safe from the storm just by tackling it smartly. Now did I have a tense moment with aggro zombies around and a bear smashing on the building I was in while I couldn't go outside for long periods of time? Yes. But it was perfectly handable. The bear broke a block, I killed it while it was breaking more, and then I handled the zombies as they crouched through that block to go eat me lol. It created a memorable experience from the pucker factor lol.

View attachment 37024

I dunno what mods you use, and I cannot use them on console, but this HUD looks so great! Incorporated map on the top right, the data in the bottom right, the info in the top left.. I hope console gets something like this sometime.