PC V2.0 Storms Brewing Dev Diary

FranticDan said:
In my experience with the water change since A21, I went almost all of A21 without a dew collector (as I don't like using traders) and in V1 and V2 I rarely use them. I find more than enough water and glue/tape in loot to not need to worry about water, the only time I need the extra water is when I want to use the rocket launcher, or I play with 25% loot.

I'd be happy if there was two kinds of water. Murky water, collected with a jar from various blocks around the world, like sinks, toilets, water coolers, etc. Can be boiled for safe consumption. You get the jar back in crafting and consumption.

Infected water, gathered from open water sources like in the old days, can be consumed for hydration but infects you plus the other normal murky water debuffs, but can only be used for glue production. You won't get the jar back this way, (or you get a dirty jar that can never be used for potable water)

This will bring back water survival and make jar economy a balancing act.


As for food, I hope food gets addressed at some point soon, for the last few years, food has been 100% optional, you can literally survive indefinitely without every eating a single thing, and v2.x doubled done of this. It makes zero sense for a game that is supposed to be a survival game for food to be a "nothing burger", pun very much intended.

I proved this fact in v2.0 where I survived for about 26 real hours, day 25, without eating anything. I died from zombies and not starvation.
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Yes, and you also play insane and think it is too easy. At zero food you have almost no stamina AFAIK. A normal player will be killed by any 2 zombies he can't kill in ranged combat. And he won't have the ammo to do ranged combat all the time.

Someone played some souls-like game with a spoon instead of his hands (or something similar). The developers of that game didn't change the balance because he could do that. ;)
 
Suxar said:
Honey is already quite plentiful mid-game. Once you find a book that allows you to harvest honey from trees, you'll have nowhere to put it.
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The balance of infection in the game has been always like that. Infection is, like food and water, a problem you have to manage in the first week, then you can ignore it. Because better armor decreases infection rate greatly, but sources for honey and pills increase.

They can't make honey generally more difficult to get because novice players would die continuously from infection and trying to search for honey at the start of the game. The only thing they could do would be to make players with tier0 armor less prone to get infected and players with higher tier armor more prone to get infected.
 
faatal said:
With the 2.0 release schedule being what it became, I always figured 3.0 would be 2026 as I know bandits will be a lot of work and I still plan on improving other areas while I work on bandits. Not that much of a difference to the schedule.
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smh

Is 2.5 finally going to finish the 2.0 content? or are there more 2.x required?
 
meganoth said:
The balance of infection in the game has been always like that. Infection is, like food and water, a problem you have to manage in the first week, then you can ignore it. Because better armor decreases infection rate greatly, but sources for honey and pills increase.
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At the beginning of the game, honey is in reasonable quantities, not too much and not too little. But by mid-game, it's unclear what to do with it. In a previous version, it was part of a drink that provided additional experience, and it was sometimes consumed. Now, it's not part of that drink. As soon as the herbal antibiotic appears, honey becomes useless.
 
Old Crow said:
I mean, I think we all knew there was no way bandits were coming this year anyway.
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When version 1.0 was released 15 months ago, and I learned that bandits were planned for version 3.0, I found it amusing.
My initial reaction was that it was a joke that it would require at least 2-3 years to incorporate bandits.
There are numerous reasons for this but primarily the game is not sufficiently optimized to introduce them,
given that 7 Days to Die operates on single-core coding.
In my opinion it would necessitate a significant rewrite of the code to accommodate the additional entities.
Therefore, despite the ongoing plans for their inclusion
I would be surprised if they are implemented any time soon in the near future.
 
meganoth said:
The balance of infection in the game has been always like that. Infection is, like food and water, a problem you have to manage in the first week, then you can ignore it. Because better armor decreases infection rate greatly, but sources for honey and pills increase.

They can't make honey generally more difficult to get because novice players would die continuously from infection and trying to search for honey at the start of the game. The only thing they could do would be to make players with tier0 armor less prone to get infected and players with higher tier armor more prone to get infected.
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Yes, that's definitely how it is, and getting an apiary (presumably in the mid, mid-late game) will really only exacerbate this. I think we can use a reason to be getting infected more often in the mid, mid-late game.

I somehow doubt we'll be limited to crafting just 1 apiary and players that struggle with infection rates may even have to craft multiple until they have a more suitable armor set.

While I understand the thought process of making T0 armor have better infection resist and high end armors poorer resist.. that just.. sounds so backwards..
Coincidentally, as the apocalypse progresses and we fill in our armor slots with gear that has bigger numbers, we also see more radiated.. I think buffing infection rates on the greenies 'n such would keep meds still-relevant later on while leaving the lowbies out of it.. (Maybe not if they're trying for early infested quests.. but even then, maybe higher likelihood of getting beat up should be a consideration) Those that struggle can simply grind out extra mats for a couple extra stations.

I expect the apiary has a somewhat limited time to shine since we probably can't craft it too early, but once we've got access to a chemistry station and some medical crafting skill, we'll have less and less need for it.
 
HammerDano said:
smh

Is 2.5 finally going to finish the 2.0 content? or are there more 2.x required?
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They are still adding new stuff in these rather than just bug fixes. Those will likely introduce bugs that will need to be fixed sooner rather than later, so it's very likely that there will be at least one more version. It doesn't really matter.

Suxar said:
At the beginning of the game, honey is in reasonable quantities, not too much and not too little. But by mid-game, it's unclear what to do with it. In a previous version, it was part of a drink that provided additional experience, and it was sometimes consumed. Now, it's not part of that drink. As soon as the herbal antibiotic appears, honey becomes useless.
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I've never made herbal antibiotics and likely never will. They aren't worth it. By the time you can make those, infection rates are extremely low. And I can easily grab a honey from a stump if I need to. I rarely even make regular antibiotics because they just sit in a crate and aren't ever used. And I play almost entirely melee.

Laz Man said:
It might be delayed but Bandits will definitely come despite popular belief...

We have designs cooking and I also have bandit POI designs already pre planned....😎
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Confirmed: Bandits are cooking
New enemy: Bandit Chef
Weapon: Spatula
Armor: Apron

New enemy variant: Bandit Sushi Chef
Weapon: Extremely Sharp Knife

:D
 
Mister Forgash said:
Yes, that's definitely how it is, and getting an apiary (presumably in the mid, mid-late game) will really only exacerbate this. I think we can use a reason to be getting infected more often in the mid, mid-late game.

I somehow doubt we'll be limited to crafting just 1 apiary and players that struggle with infection rates may even have to craft multiple until they have a more suitable armor set.

While I understand the thought process of making T0 armor have better infection resist and high end armors poorer resist.. that just.. sounds so backwards..
Coincidentally, as the apocalypse progresses and we fill in our armor slots with gear that has bigger numbers, we also see more radiated.. I think buffing infection rates on the greenies 'n such would keep meds still-relevant later on while leaving the lowbies out of it.. (Maybe not if they're trying for early infested quests.. but even then, maybe higher likelihood of getting beat up should be a consideration) Those that struggle can simply grind out extra mats for a couple extra stations.

I expect the apiary has a somewhat limited time to shine since we probably can't craft it too early, but once we've got access to a chemistry station and some medical crafting skill, we'll have less and less need for it.
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Just to make that clear: It is not about making high end armors give you less resist than t0 armor, it is about making the difference less.

AFAIK the infection rate also depends on the amount of damage getting through. That means better armor profits from being more damage resistant AND having higher inherent infection resistance (checked this right now in XML). And that seems subjectively too much.

Maybe just the damage reduction from armor would suffice.
 
faatal said:
Now that the cat has left the bag, I will say that Allan and I have the new smell system mostly done, so I hope it will be in 2.5.

It works how sound does, with zombies or animals investigating near you, except is emitted by carrying raw meat. The range grows or shrinks over time based on how much raw meat you carry up to the cap and meat can be wrapped to stop it smelling. The old smell system was still actually in the code and updating but nothing used the data, so we end up at about the same performance level with the new system replacing the old.

We are also emitting smell when eating smelly food, which stacks, has a cap and fades away fairly quickly. Immersing yourself in water clears it, but meat would still stink when you surface. You cannot stealth away your smell, but its range is greatly reduced when sheltered.
Post automatically merged:
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With the return of Smell and Jars, you should really be considering including the ability for players to combine these two features into a stealth asset. The workflow could look like this:

  1. Drink murky water to deliberately get dysentery
  2. "Fart" into an empty jar to store the smell there
  3. In a stealth situation place the open jar on the ground in a good ambush point
  4. Move to your hide
  5. Ambush the zombies that come to investigate the "bait"
 
meganoth said:
Yes, and you also play insane and think it is too easy. At zero food you have almost no stamina AFAIK. A normal player will be killed by any 2 zombies he can't kill in ranged combat. And he won't have the ammo to do ranged combat all the time.

Someone played some souls-like game with a spoon instead of his hands (or something similar). The developers of that game didn't change the balance because he could do that. ;)
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Stage 1 dehydration is at least 3 times more punishing than stage 3 starvation. It takes a long time to die from starvation, and stamina isn't even at issue if you have good stamina management, but stage 1 dehydration even with the skills to manage stamina, not even I can last very long.

There are so many ways to heal while starving.
 
Sapient6 said:
With the return of Smell and Jars, you should really be considering including the ability for players to combine these two features into a stealth asset. The workflow could look like this:

  1. Drink murky water to deliberately get dysentery
  2. "Fart" into an empty jar to store the smell there
  3. In a stealth situation place the open jar on the ground in a good ambush point
  4. Move to your hide
  5. Ambush the zombies that come to investigate the "bait"
Click to expand...
1759421484552.png
 
Adam the Waster said:
I kinda hope the smell system works for more then just raw meat. Cooked meats, stews and rotten meat.
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The smell system will work on more than just raw meat.
@faatal wrote:

"We are also emitting smell when eating smelly food, which stacks, has a cap and fades away fairly quickly. Immersing yourself in water clears it, but meat would still stink when you surface. You cannot stealth away your smell, but its range is greatly reduced when sheltered."
 
Laz Man said:
It might be delayed but Bandits will definitely come despite popular belief...

We have designs cooking and I also have bandit POI designs already pre planned....😎
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Will some of the existing tier 0 POIs be converted into bandits camps, like Rogue Nerds Refuge, Navezgane Outlets and Montgomery Public School?
 
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