My plea to the Fun Pimps

[Deo]

Although I emphatize with you missing old implementations, it is far from easy to just put things back in a separate mode.

Keep in mind, just because things exist in old code and/or existing mods doesn't necessarily make it an easy win.

We have the greater responsibility to ensure everything works across all platforms.

On the bright side, there has been many discussions on adding more simulation options down the road. It probably won't happen until we finish the remaining roadmap items (e.g. bandits, story, etc.) but at least that means there is a chance for alternate gameplay experiences.

With that said, what types of alternate game modes would people like to see?

Personally, I would love to see some type of perma item degredation mode so there is more value in attaining multiples of the same type of weapons and armor. This could create a similar feel to the old weapon parts system.

Isn't it obvious? We want alpha 11-16, namely the content that was removed and a return to gritty horror survival and immersion without magic yetis and magic candy. So if you implement that in your game mode or whatever then yeah...

 

[LittleRedSonja]

I think it is impossible to please everybody. Expecting TFP or any other game developer to suddenly change everything out of somebodies wishes or rants is unrealistic.

I think they are doing their best to develop the game following the road they have in mind for THEIR game while listening and making some changes out of constructive feedback from the community, if those fit in the general idea they have for THEIR game. Which I am sure is far from easy.

Personally, while there are some things I do not particularly like much or find slightly annoying, like yetis, or smoothies, I still enjoy the game a lot.
I am a relatively new player compared with many others, so I have not enjoyed (or most likely, suffer) older versions, so maybe that is why .

A lot of the things that are usual complaints or requests from older versions I would not like to have back, so not everybody wants empty jars back (please NO), or the absolutely horrendous clothes from older versions, or everything looking brown and muddy (leave my colors alone, please, I am happy with the game being more colorful). Just to name a few.
5 slots for armor though, that would be nice .

So see, it is impossible to please everybody, that is why mods exist, and why we have the possibility to play older versions. At least in pc, I understand it is more problematic in console, but in pc everybody can play the game EXACTLY the way they want.

Now I am not sure why I am writing this post, I might need more coffee , but maybe just to give my 2 cents.

 

[Roadkill115]

Frankly I suspect the best chance to get what you want is a mod. IF A16 is wanted by so many people, why isn't there an A16 mod available already? LBD for example is already implemented in Darkness Falls. Yes, there are details that are very difficult or impossible to get exactly like A16 again, but you don't expect to get an exact replica anyway, right? Otherwise download and play A16.

this sums up our complaints we don't want to never get new content because we are playing old versions for what was patched out; We (maybe not all of us but those of us complaining) want our survival sandbox back not this weird fortnightesqe dungeon crawler adjacent (why the sudden jump to looter shooter from sandbox?) its becoming and we want it to still benefit from updates

 

[meganoth]

this sums up our complaints we don't want to never get new content because we are playing old versions for what was patched out; We (maybe not all of us but those of us complaining) want our survival sandbox back not this weird fortnightesqe dungeon crawler adjacent (why the sudden jump to looter shooter from sandbox?) its becoming and we want it to still benefit from updates

I agree, going back to A16 isn't a full solution. But there still is no explanation of the mystery why there is no A16 mod. If so many players want that back there also should be modders among them and they should have produced one.

 

[Roland]

Hi community, I have posted the same thread in pimp dreams but with a different title to get more exposure for this post.

Make a classic version of 7 days to die. I think I speak on behalf of the OG community here. You have made a simplified version stripped of content for consoles and casual gamers. Financially this is understandable. I'm not here to spread negativity anymore. But I have a solution that will fix everything.

You can keep your current version of the game and work on it however you want. But there has to be compromise and fullfilment of what the vocal not so soon to be minority of people who want alpha16 and below in terms of gameplay. So I propose that you work on, or hire the best modders and have a portion of the team create a different version of the game. Both can be playable in the menu.

An immersive 7 days to die classic version. With all removed content put back in and a return to immersive horror gritty survival like in alpha 11-16.

This will satisfy us and you will be happy as devs and the community will be to.

It's not difficult to do. You could allocate a portion of the team or fans with coding knowledge and modders who are passionate for game, and even hire them to work on the alternative "game mode" or classic 7 days to die.

right now 7 days to die is a streamlined rpg dungeon crawler bordering on some kind of fantasy rpg. If we have both versions, everyone wins.

I dunno if that is true anymore. Storms and Biome hazards were made to be optional and people still freaked out and said they would uninstall until TFP removed those features. You could literally choose to play an enhanced version of 1.6 or play 2.0 and people still went out of their minds. Sure, some people liked the idea of storms and hazards but wanted adjustments (which TFP always does) but there were a significant portion of the critics who just wanted it all removed and telling them it was simply an option only made them angrier and accuse TFP of knowing their new features were trash ahead of time which is why they made them optional.

So I don't completely buy that having two options is going to make everyone happy.

 

[Deo]

I dunno if that is true anymore. Storms and Biome hazards were made to be optional and people still freaked out and said they would uninstall until TFP removed those features. You could literally choose to play an enhanced version of 1.6 or play 2.0 and people still went out of their minds. Sure, some people liked the idea of storms and hazards but wanted adjustments (which TFP always does) but there were a significant portion of the critics who just wanted it all removed and telling them it was simply an option only made them angrier and accuse TFP of knowing their new features were trash ahead of time which is why they made them optional.

So I don't completely buy that having two options is going to make everyone happy.

I understand. I saw your pat about them maybe maning a mode that's close to alpha 11. That would be cool. What I propeaes is two different versions of the game. The linear one now, and in the menu a separate sandbox and more immersive survival one. People might complain bu they will have the option between 4.0 and the other one...

 

[Caelynd Maclyrr]

I don´t think anything about this, that´s why i asked. I have no clue. I just know that those versions exists and that modders do use old systems in their overhauls.

It's likely gone, as in data structures for old functionality removed so as to reduce bloat, since they are trimming down to allow the new code to fit on consoles. Having lots of vestigial dead code in your product is never really a good thing. Yes, they likely still have the code since they probably use some form of code repository with proper versioning, but generally having code able to operate two different ways tends to triple the effort to develop, maintain and debug. Unless you plan to drop a few megabucks on them, it's not feasible for their small team.

 

[plzkthxbye]

No, hence why I said im no expert on game design...But thanks for pointing out the obvious..You must be an expert developer apparently...

Were you just trolling when you said this, then?

Actually it wouldn't be all that hard at all

Why would you make such statements when you know you don't know what you're talking about? What if a bunch of people, who also don't know what they're talking about, agree with you, and you all collectively conclude that TFP are just lazy devs, and you all then go review bomb the game on Steam when this change doesn't happen on the timescale that you admittedly-ignorant players have determined is appropriate?

 

[aceguy7]

Were you just trolling when you said this, then?

Why would you make such statements when you know you don't know what you're talking about? What if a bunch of people, who also don't know what they're talking about, agree with you, and you all collectively conclude that TFP are just lazy devs, and you all then go review bomb the game on Steam when this change doesn't happen on the timescale that you admittedly-ignorant players have determined is appropriate?

Actually you missed all my points, I do know what im talking about but the real question is do you know what you are talking about? lol and probably didn't even read half of what i said anyways...lol I have been praising the changes and the things Joel has been talking about on reddit...You can troll all you want...My earlier posts were totally misunderstood apparently. But I learned quickly any opinions here that differ from from the"mob regulars" get eatin alive as either you being a troll or an idiot that doesn't know anything about modding or codding...lol I really enjoy your worthless opinions...Thanks for the laugh

 

[Rabbitslovecactus]

Hi community, I have posted the same thread in pimp dreams but with a different title to get more exposure for this post.

Make a classic version of 7 days to die. I think I speak on behalf of the OG community here. You have made a simplified version stripped of content for consoles and casual gamers. Financially this is understandable. I'm not here to spread negativity anymore. But I have a solution that will fix everything.

You can keep your current version of the game and work on it however you want. But there has to be compromise and fullfilment of what the vocal not so soon to be minority of people who want alpha16 and below in terms of gameplay. So I propose that you work on, or hire the best modders and have a portion of the team create a different version of the game. Both can be playable in the menu.

An immersive 7 days to die classic version. With all removed content put back in and a return to immersive horror gritty survival like in alpha 11-16.

This will satisfy us and you will be happy as devs and the community will be to.

It's not difficult to do. You could allocate a portion of the team or fans with coding knowledge and modders who are passionate for game, and even hire them to work on the alternative "game mode" or classic 7 days to die.

right now 7 days to die is a streamlined rpg dungeon crawler bordering on some kind of fantasy rpg. If we have both versions, everyone wins.

They said they are going to make a sandbox mode with no need to use the trader. I think something is in the works. However, I really hope it has a hybrid levelling system that also uses LUBD for action skills.

 

[engineer]

Actually you missed all my points, I do know what im talking about but the real question is do you know what you are talking about? lol and probably didn't even read half of what i said anyways...lol I have been praising the changes and the things Joel has been talking about on reddit...You can troll all you want...My earlier posts were totally misunderstood apparently. But I learned quickly any opinions here that differ from from the"mob regulars" get eatin alive as either you being a troll or an idiot that doesn't know anything about modding or codding...lol I really enjoy your worthless opinions...Thanks for the laugh

Nobody is mobbing you but some people maybe could be a bit more respectful. You just very confidently said that certain programming / game development tasks are "not difficult" - "Actually it wouldn't be all that hard at all", and then proceeded to add a whole list of things that are an entire overhaul of the whole game. Not gonna lie, that comment actually made me shiver, lol.

I am a software engineer, not a game developer, I work with payments, credit cards, PoS terminals, transactions/settlements and all that jazz, so you or others can buy video games on credit and game studios can get their money through the many hoops of the financial system. What you wrote down is far from "not difficult", and I can try to respectfully break it down, making (hopefully) proper assumptions about the game and its current state:
1. "get rid of of the biome smoothies" - this is already implemented. Yay!
2. "just change the code to work as learn by doing" - this is a complete overhaul of the whole skills system, learn by doing was gone for many years and the code that was used is nowhere near compatible with the current version. TFP would need to essentially reimplement the whole thing from scratch. And knowing that skills are not an insignificant piece of the overall game, it would take months to even bring back the previous skill system, even more if you want to give an option to the player to follow one system or another. TFP would end up in if-statement hell all over the place.
3. "change the colors to be more gritty and less sunshine like days" - no idea. Might be easy, might be hard.
4. "open up the biomes to go where you want" - already in place as a customizable option, yay!
5. "add in water jars" - this one might not be very hard compared to the LBD as some modders were able to do it by themselves. Still would require some customization, changes to loot tables, recipes, etc.
6. "maybe add in a few older sound effects" - no idea.
7. "Bring back bears to the forest and dear to hunt during the day" - this one is probably easy.
8. "add in the 5 piece clothing and old clothing options" - this one is also very hard for the same reasons as LBD.

And finally, you made a statement "Your looking at 90% just coding changes alone", implying that "coding changes" are easy. They are not, and quite frankly that statement is a bit insulting.

Also bare in mind that there was such a switch (survival vs current or something), it would make every other iteration of the game more difficult to do, as now you are looking at 2 completely different gameplay options to test against and maintain. When Joel mentioned that they want to do a lot of customization options, I also wonder if it won't make their whole game just a huge bunch of if-statements all over the place, which is going to make further development way more difficult due to such branching.

Don't get me wrong - I would absolutely love to be able to customize my gameplay experience to the smallest details, including learn by doing, learn by perks, learn by reading, jars vs no jars, customize each zombie, their health, perks, dungeon/non-dungeon POIs, etc. That would be insanely cool! Unfortunately, it is not feasible, and TFP fellas have to try to make their best judgement in what to change, what to keep and what to make customizable. Resources are limited.

 

[AidenwithAnAxe]

A lot of the things that are usual complaints or requests from older versions I would not like to have back, so not everybody wants empty jars back (please NO), or the absolutely horrendous clothes from older versions, or everything looking brown and muddy (leave my colors alone, please, I am happy with the game being more

The clothing options in the latest release are quite disappointing. In the previous alpha versions, we had a lot more customization for our outfits. While I understand the need for the new armor system, I don’t see the reason to eliminate the old system. The colors in the current game are a lot better, as I do prefer more vividness. That said, I wouldn’t mind a darker and more horror-themed experience.

 

[aceguy7]

Nobody is mobbing you but some people maybe could be a bit more respectful. You just very confidently said that certain programming / game development tasks are "not difficult" - "Actually it wouldn't be all that hard at all", and then proceeded to add a whole list of things that are an entire overhaul of the whole game. Not gonna lie, that comment actually made me shiver, lol.

I am a software engineer, not a game developer, I work with payments, credit cards, PoS terminals, transactions/settlements and all that jazz, so you or others can buy video games on credit and game studios can get their money through the many hoops of the financial system. What you wrote down is far from "not difficult", and I can try to respectfully break it down, making (hopefully) proper assumptions about the game and its current state:
1. "get rid of of the biome smoothies" - this is already implemented. Yay!
2. "just change the code to work as learn by doing" - this is a complete overhaul of the whole skills system, learn by doing was gone for many years and the code that was used is nowhere near compatible with the current version. TFP would need to essentially reimplement the whole thing from scratch. And knowing that skills are not an insignificant piece of the overall game, it would take months to even bring back the previous skill system, even more if you want to give an option to the player to follow one system or another. TFP would end up in if-statement hell all over the place.
3. "change the colors to be more gritty and less sunshine like days" - no idea. Might be easy, might be hard.
4. "open up the biomes to go where you want" - already in place as a customizable option, yay!
5. "add in water jars" - this one might not be very hard compared to the LBD as some modders were able to do it by themselves. Still would require some customization, changes to loot tables, recipes, etc.
6. "maybe add in a few older sound effects" - no idea.
7. "Bring back bears to the forest and dear to hunt during the day" - this one is probably easy.
8. "add in the 5 piece clothing and old clothing options" - this one is also very hard for the same reasons as LBD.

And finally, you made a statement "Your looking at 90% just coding changes alone", implying that "coding changes" are easy. They are not, and quite frankly that statement is a bit insulting.

Also bare in mind that there was such a switch (survival vs current or something), it would make every other iteration of the game more difficult to do, as now you are looking at 2 completely different gameplay options to test against and maintain. When Joel mentioned that they want to do a lot of customization options, I also wonder if it won't make their whole game just a huge bunch of if-statements all over the place, which is going to make further development way more difficult due to such branching.

Don't get me wrong - I would absolutely love to be able to customize my game play experience to the smallest details, including learn by doing, learn by perks, learn by reading, jars vs no jars, customize each zombie, their health, perks, dungeon/non-dungeon POIs, etc. That would be insanely cool! Unfortunately, it is not feasible, and TFP fellas have to try to make their best judgement in what to change, what to keep and what to make customizable. Resources are limited.

Hey great... I build computers, im a networking engineer, and graphic design artist... I'm not a game developer....I have some experience in modding, am i an expert? no....But I do know how to do some things and edit the xml files to balance the game...I have personally made the weather system a more gritty darker feel it was easy to do (which i may try to release as a full mod in the future)....many of the points i brought up were very easy changes to make to game play. Change in some sound effects easy, jars again pretty easy to do, bears to spawn in the forest more often....pretty easy just change a couple numbers lol....

Now 2 things i don't know how to change is the clothing system, and change to learn by doing system. That is not something i will touch... Which many modders have already done such things...Yes, My point is if the modders can do these things, why is it so hard for the developers to revert back a few changes? Don't they have back up code? in case something new they want to try doesn't work out?...Joel has been talking about "putting the sand back in the box" if you read his reddit posts hes been talking about making some changes to the game adding more options..ect..... I don't know how my post got grossly misunderstood....I think some were trolling me....I was sharing my 5 cents and somehow everybody thought i said I was an expert in game design, and thinking I know how to do everything...lol Many people get ripped to shreds on this forum for sharing their opinion unfortunately...I wasn't even trying to make anyone look bad or even putting the fun pimps down in anyway... I was saying yes there are a lot of easy things you can change to balance the game, and yes there are hard things as well.... Somehow though that got translated into "I can change everything easy and rewrite all the coding and make my own game". LOL Got to love online forums....

 

[theFlu]

LOL Got to love online forums....

Heh, well; don't take it too seriously. But the OP was asking for an entire game's worth of "another mode to this game", and via replying to bdub's to comment you absolutely sounded like "it's no big deal". How else would we take? :

Actually it wouldn't be all that hard at all

It'd be a huge project, and coming in with that doesn't really respect the effort. But hey, it's just forum banter either way

 

[aceguy7]

Heh, well; don't take it too seriously. But the OP was asking for an entire game's worth of "another mode to this game", and via replying to bdub's to comment you absolutely sounded like "it's no big deal". How else would we take? :

It'd be a huge project, and coming in with that doesn't really respect the effort. But hey, it's just forum banter either way

Oh i respect the effort....But I may not have explained my point very well enough...so i apologize for that.... I wasn't taking jabs at anyone... just a simple yes there are some easy changes that can be made.....But sorry to interrupt the original topic with this unintentional banter nonsense....