Zombies that actually act like zombies

Double G

Double G

Survivor
I understand and completely agree with why zombies need to path more "intelligently". But do all of them have to?

As someone that loves zombie movies and shows, it's very strange for me to see zombies get aggroed and look right at me as they proceed to walk away from me, because they're pathing to a ladder or a box to climb to get to me.

7 Days zombies don't really act like zombies.

In pretty much all zombie movies and shows, if a survivor is standing on a structure that puts them too high for the zombies to reach....the zombies will simply continue to reach for them.

I'm not mad that they're smart. Return of the Living Dead zombies were very smart. But can't most of them be dumb? Or what if you go the George Romero route and have them get progressively smarter as the weeks go on.

I just wish I could have more of a zombie experience.

At the very least, could some more aspects of the AI be moved over to the XMLs so we can mod them to be dumb? Right now, the AI pathing code in the XML does little to change their pathing behavior.

GOG2.gif
 
Since you mentioned that you mod. This may help a bit. The four main files used are
Entitiyclasses.xml Entitiygroups.xml Spawning.xml utilityai.xml.

In Entityclasses.xml copy and paste the zombie classes that you want to vary, and rename them,
basically it is cloning the renders. If you want a group of the zombies to be dumb, label them like
"zombieBowlerDumb". Then copy the <entity_class name="zombieTemplateMale"> class and adjust it

to specification. In the individual dumb zombies delete the ai structure and change the line for the zombie
to <entity_class name="zombieBowlerDumb" extends="zombieTemplateMaleDumb">. Just repeat and only adjust
the awareness and action parameters in each of the template types you make.

Add an entitydumbgroup to the entitygroups.xml, also add a few individuals to zombiesall group. Last add the
group to the spawning.xml

Note: you can also give them different weaknesses and strengths including the need for specific weapons to kill them,
since there is a finite set of models, unless you are paying attention to their exact response times, you won't know which
is which except if you are stationary and out of reach. The rest of the time it's random you can also do it for sleeper volumes.

It does work, I started doing it a few years back, I called mine PopTops, because I randomized the decapitation
and amputations, walk and run speeds. So in any ten generated they can look the same but react differently. If done
right you kind of form leaders, and followers. If you make the dumb headshot only but with higher resistance
they become relentless, slow followers, that may only be taken down by a bone knife or an arrow, kind of like the Walking
Dead.
 
I think if there was a chance for zombies to spawn with different behaviors would be cool
And you can tell by sound


  • Dumb zombies sound deeper and slower walk right towards you and deal more damage to you and have natural damage resistance
  • Standard: sound normal and act as they do now
  • Rage: sound higher pitch, and they go Argo breaking anything around them and deal more damage
Zombies would have new behavior too
  • Yelling: spawns a few zombies too aid them and a animation like the plauge spitter
  • Eatting (heals them and makes them go faster)
  • Tackling: they lung at you and will fall over if they miss but do damage if they dont
  • Ground pound (heavy zombies) do a aoe slam
  • Grab: insta stuns you and you gotta fend them off so you can tell if the melee is going to stun you
  • Dodging: Solders only can do this but they will dodge and weave
  • On fire they go faster but die faster
 
4sheetzngeegles said:
Since you mentioned that you mod. This may help a bit. The four main files used are
Entitiyclasses.xml Entitiygroups.xml Spawning.xml utilityai.xml.

In Entityclasses.xml copy and paste the zombie classes that you want to vary, and rename them,
basically it is cloning the renders. If you want a group of the zombies to be dumb, label them like
"zombieBowlerDumb". Then copy the <entity_class name="zombieTemplateMale"> class and adjust it

to specification. In the individual dumb zombies delete the ai structure and change the line for the zombie
to <entity_class name="zombieBowlerDumb" extends="zombieTemplateMaleDumb">. Just repeat and only adjust
the awareness and action parameters in each of the template types you make.

Add an entitydumbgroup to the entitygroups.xml, also add a few individuals to zombiesall group. Last add the
group to the spawning.xml

Note: you can also give them different weaknesses and strengths including the need for specific weapons to kill them,
since there is a finite set of models, unless you are paying attention to their exact response times, you won't know which
is which except if you are stationary and out of reach. The rest of the time it's random you can also do it for sleeper volumes.

It does work, I started doing it a few years back, I called mine PopTops, because I randomized the decapitation
and amputations, walk and run speeds. So in any ten generated they can look the same but react differently. If done
right you kind of form leaders, and followers. If you make the dumb headshot only but with higher resistance
they become relentless, slow followers, that may only be taken down by a bone knife or an arrow, kind of like the Walking
Dead.
Click to expand...
So this will guarantee they won't start searching for a ladder or something?
 
Adam the Waster said:
I think if there was a chance for zombies to spawn with different behaviors would be cool
And you can tell by sound


  • Dumb zombies sound deeper and slower walk right towards you and deal more damage to you and have natural damage resistance
  • Standard: sound normal and act as they do now
  • Rage: sound higher pitch, and they go Argo breaking anything around them and deal more damage
Zombies would have new behavior too
  • Yelling: spawns a few zombies too aid them and a animation like the plauge spitter
  • Eatting (heals them and makes them go faster)
  • Tackling: they lung at you and will fall over if they miss but do damage if they dont
  • Ground pound (heavy zombies) do a aoe slam
  • Grab: insta stuns you and you gotta fend them off so you can tell if the melee is going to stun you
  • Dodging: Solders only can do this but they will dodge and weave
  • On fire they go faster but die faster
Click to expand...
A16 has zombies in a good spot in terms of damage given and taken. They are easy to kill but mess you up something good if they hit you. You're stunned easily, they do a lot of damage and there's a high probability for infection.

I think standard zombies should be dumb and just push against obstacles like walls and fences, but cause damage / weaken the obstacles as they push. The more zombies, the more damage. I would reduce their chance of striking obstacles by 75 or 80% and they would never jump. Also, they would never seek out ladders but if they happen to walk into one or get pushed into one, then they'd start climbing it.

Ferals and up should be just as dumb but have a 100% chance of attacking obstacles and they will jump.

I think all zombies should start out as dumb, but as the weeks move on, some will start getting smart, like the Utility Worker, and seek more "intelligent" paths to you. That would fit in the Romero lore that zombies retain some of their past selves as well as they get more intelligent over time. And there could be "leader" zombies like Big Daddy from Land of the Dead. If dumb zombies get close enough to him they would start acting more intelligently, like how Big Daddy taught other zombies to use tools and use more effective means to get to the living.
 
Double G said:
A16 has zombies in a good spot in terms of damage given and taken. They are easy to kill but mess you up something good if they hit you. You're stunned easily, they do a lot of damage and there's a high probability for infection.

I think standard zombies should be dumb and just push against obstacles like walls and fences, but cause damage / weaken the obstacles as they push. The more zombies, the more damage. I would reduce their chance of striking obstacles by 75 or 80% and they would never jump. Also, they would never seek out ladders but if they happen to walk into one or get pushed into one, then they'd start climbing it.

Ferals and up should be just as dumb but have a 100% chance of attacking obstacles and they will jump.

I think all zombies should start out as dumb, but as the weeks move on, some will start getting smart, like the Utility Worker, and seek more "intelligent" paths to you. That would fit in the Romero lore that zombies retain some of their past selves as well as they get more intelligent over time. And there could be "leader" zombies like Big Daddy from Land of the Dead. If dumb zombies get close enough to him they would start acting more intelligently, like how Big Daddy taught other zombies to use tools and use more effective means to get to the living.
Click to expand...
Both You and @Adam the Waster have some solid zombie ideas...layered. Be fun to play against...not that what we have is not good enough, but, more fun is more fun.
 
Double G said:
So this will guarantee they won't start searching for a ladder or something?
Click to expand...
a few things to help with that
<property name="CanClimbLadders" value="true"/> change it to false and add it to the template you make
<property name="JumpMaxDistance" value="2.8, 3.9"/> change to 0 0 so no leap frog
<property name="MoveSpeed" value="0.08"/> <!-- Just shambling around --> Make sure this is move speed

When you copy the template, what ever you don't want set it to false, then adjust the other numbers to the speeds.

<property name="AITask-1" value="BreakBlock"/> you could remove for your setup, so they should come to the poi
but not hit the blocks. I posted something recently like this. I will find it and add it here for you.

Found it
MaxTunnerX said:
why do they have to make this so complicated?!
Click to expand...
Not that complicated.
1 need a text editor that recognizes xml formatting. like notepad++
2 Entitieclasses.xml go to replace and paste BreakBlock| repl with nothing then tap your cursor to the first line then replace all.
3 Entitieclasses.xml go to replace and paste DestroyArea| repl with nothing then tap your cursor to the first line then replace all.
4 Entitieclasses.xml go to replace and paste <property name="AITask-1" value="BreakBlock"/> replace with
<!-- <property name="AITask-1" value="BreakBlock"/> --> tap your cursor to the first line then replace all.
5 Entitieclasses.xml go to replace and paste <property name="AITask-2" value="BreakBlock"/> replace with
<!-- <property name="AITask-2" value="BreakBlock"/> --> tap your cursor to the first line then replace all.

Save the file

The reason for going to the top is replace starts from whatever line your cursor is on.

The result from a test; a few minutes ago. I spawned in 7 Boes. They did not touch the front door. So I let them in
and went to the bathroom which had a broken door. They hit it once, while they were bumping into each other.
Also if you are close to range to be hit, they will swing, and the zombie had will hit any object with a collider. Just
stay far enough away from the block and they just mill around outside the door, climbing on each other and trying
to crawl through one block area.

You will still have to do adjustments, comment out, or delete for zombies with projectiles, and maybe animals,
I don't know because I didn't test any. Be safe as houses while in houses.

Hope this helps. This was tested recently,
 
Last edited:
Double G said:
I understand and completely agree with why zombies need to path more "intelligently". But do all of them have to?

As someone that loves zombie movies and shows, it's very strange for me to see zombies get aggroed and look right at me as they proceed to walk away from me, because they're pathing to a ladder or a box to climb to get to me.

7 Days zombies don't really act like zombies.

In pretty much all zombie movies and shows, if a survivor is standing on a structure that puts them too high for the zombies to reach....the zombies will simply continue to reach for them.

I'm not mad that they're smart. Return of the Living Dead zombies were very smart. But can't most of them be dumb? Or what if you go the George Romero route and have them get progressively smarter as the weeks go on.

I just wish I could have more of a zombie experience.

At the very least, could some more aspects of the AI be moved over to the XMLs so we can mod them to be dumb? Right now, the AI pathing code in the XML does little to change their pathing behavior.
Click to expand...
I agree that zombies in this game dont act like zombies, and unlike you, Im absolutely offended by this fact. This game definitely needs a toggle for dumb and smart zombies (and an actual working run/not run toggle). Its super difficult to get any decent zombie experience in here, its all tower defense and Left4dead. The Walking Dead and Dying Light is what I want this game to feel more like.
 
Double G said:
In pretty much all zombie movies and shows, if a survivor is standing on a structure that puts them too high for the zombies to reach....the zombies will simply continue to reach for them.
Click to expand...
They behaved exactly like that back in A17. There's nothing good about it, blood moons were some kind of one-button clicking.
 
I wouldn't mind it being an option in the game. But I think I would quickly get bored if all I had to do was stand behind a bunch of blocks because the zombies couldn't figure out how to reach me other than to keep hiring what was in the way. That is so easy to deal with. Not that this game isn't already easy, but that just makes it easy too easy. I want zombies to find ways to reach me. I want them to explore my base weaknesses. In fact, I want them to explore my base weaknesses far more than they do now.

Sure that doesn't fit in with a lot of zombies movies, but since zombies aren't real, there isn't any reason not to allow them to be smart. Besides, are these supposed to be real zombies? That hasn't been made clear even though we call them zombies. The things that have been said indicate some kind of infection/virus type of thing. Zombies are dead that come back to life. These may not be that. These may still be living... at least in part. It would help to explain bleeding, though not entirely since bleeding doesn't happen all the time. So if they are still at least partly living, they may think just fine.
 
Riamus said:
I wouldn't mind it being an option in the game. But I think I would quickly get bored if all I had to do was stand behind a bunch of blocks because the zombies couldn't figure out how to reach me other than to keep hiring what was in the way. That is so easy to deal with. Not that this game isn't already easy, but that just makes it easy too easy. I want zombies to find ways to reach me. I want them to explore my base weaknesses. In fact, I want them to explore my base weaknesses far more than they do now.

Sure that doesn't fit in with a lot of zombies movies, but since zombies aren't real, there isn't any reason not to allow them to be smart. Besides, are these supposed to be real zombies? That hasn't been made clear even though we call them zombies. The things that have been said indicate some kind of infection/virus type of thing. Zombies are dead that come back to life. These may not be that. These may still be living... at least in part. It would help to explain bleeding, though not entirely since bleeding doesn't happen all the time. So if they are still at least partly living, they may think just fine.
Click to expand...
Don't get too lost in the sauce. They're zombies. They're the living dead. You start deviating too far from the base concepts of what something is, then it starts to become something else. There are plenty of other "something else" games out there. With a little extra thought and imagination a balance can be struck without violating what the concept of a zombie is, while also maintaining and even increasing the challenge. Most of the zombie game developers don't practice enough restraint and start turning zombies into more sophisticated goblins, alien-esque creatures or generic monsters, which isn't very interesting.
 
Double G said:
Don't get too lost in the sauce. They're zombies. They're the living dead. You start deviating too far from the base concepts of what something is, then it starts to become something else. There are plenty of other "something else" games out there. With a little extra thought and imagination a balance can be struck without violating what the concept of a zombie is, while also maintaining and even increasing the challenge. Most of the zombie game developers don't practice enough restraint and start turning zombies into more sophisticated goblins, alien-esque creatures or generic monsters, which isn't very interesting.
Click to expand...
As I said, having both options is the way to go I think. But you are exactly right, people keep calling these things zombies, even though they have nothing to do with them. Its more like resident evil monsters that are not even zombies anymore, just mutants basically. And I personally didnt come to this game to play X-men, I came for zombies.
 
Double G said:
Don't get too lost in the sauce. They're zombies. They're the living dead. You start deviating too far from the base concepts of what something is, then it starts to become something else. There are plenty of other "something else" games out there. With a little extra thought and imagination a balance can be struck without violating what the concept of a zombie is, while also maintaining and even increasing the challenge. Most of the zombie game developers don't practice enough restraint and start turning zombies into more sophisticated goblins, alien-esque creatures or generic monsters, which isn't very interesting.
Click to expand...
Yes, but like I said, we only assume these are "real" zombies. Without a story that explains what happened, we don't really know. It may be that they are, or they may be something else entirely. In any case, this is a game and not a movie. If you can easily walk away from zombies because they can only shamble along and all you had to do was barricade yourself somewhere for safety, it severely reduces the challenge and gameplay value of the game. Either way, if it's an option, that's fine. But I would definitely not like such a watered down game just for the sake of "realism."
 
I also think that some zombies could have special abiltys like thugs and bikers give consciousness more often, females give bleed more due to their nails
Post automatically merged:

Then again I would cut some zombies to be specials like bowlers would just blow up after they reach a set hp, hazmat are immuin to fire and electrical attacks
 
in my opinion i think its a compromise, between how zombies behave vs your base, to how they normally behave in the world, in the old alphas 16 for example the zombies were pretty stupid, which made building big and different bases worth it and was fun, now it's build a path for zombies with a box to kill at the end, the problem is that those zombies in the old alphas were too stupid outside of the bases and their defense, and didn't know how to reach the player properly, in any poi or in the world, which made it too easy and weird sometimes, like i said i think its a compromise, stupid zombies, better the tower defense aspect vs worse behavior in everything else,
 
grz__ said:
in my opinion i think its a compromise, between how zombies behave vs your base, to how they normally behave in the world, in the old alphas 16 for example the zombies were pretty stupid, which made building big and different bases worth it and was fun, now it's build a path for zombies with a box to kill at the end, the problem is that those zombies in the old alphas were too stupid outside of the bases and their defense, and didn't know how to reach the player properly, in any poi or in the world, which made it too easy and weird sometimes, like i said i think its a compromise, stupid zombies, better the tower defense aspect vs worse behavior in everything else,
Click to expand...
Yeah, the old way let you easily avoid them because they were so dumb. I think this is better, though I also think it is easy to exploit pathing still. I've made the suggestion in the past that there be a real mix to the zombies. Some that are smart (even smarter than now, targeting things like traps to get rid of them, or other things), some are average (what we have now), and some are dumb (what we had before). Have the mix start out more dumb in the early game and get smarter over time so you have to adjust your defenses to compensate for the change.

There could even be a game option to randomize that. Each horde night, the game randomly selected a ratio of the three intelligence levels so you never know if you will be defending against dumb zombies and need to focus on defenses from every direction or smart zombies and need to focus on defending against pathing, or a more average mix. And then that ratio lasts until the next horde night. It could make for very interesting horde nights
 
I don't mind "smart" zombies, i.e. zombies that can climb ladders, etc. Hopefully, the story mode will give us some indication of how it is they've turned from creatures with no higher brain functions into veritable structural engineers. I'd be focusing on the labs to explain that were I TFP. It's not like combat can be all souls-like. They're zombies. Ergo, I wouldn't have any better ideas about how to spice up combat beyond their constantly falling forward and bare flick of the wrist things and the like and I'd just as soon a quaitus be put on the idea of greater difficulty meaning bullet sponges.

Less palatable is the their wont to destroy blocks closest to the ground as opposed to "zombie eye and hand level," etc. introduced in the last patch. Want them to crawl through openings? They've done that anyway when you allowed too many to gather in one place. They've more or less clipped through obstacles in that event even when using some barrier to prevent it, e.g. specific blocks designed to guard a fight window and the like. What's changed about that? Nothing. Nothing at all. Bullet sponginess, otoh.... Well, I guess that gives you an excuse to use all those magical candies and such.
 
Riamus said:
Yeah, the old way let you easily avoid them because they were so dumb. I think this is better, though I also think it is easy to exploit pathing still. I've made the suggestion in the past that there be a real mix to the zombies. Some that are smart (even smarter than now, targeting things like traps to get rid of them, or other things), some are average (what we have now), and some are dumb (what we had before). Have the mix start out more dumb in the early game and get smarter over time so you have to adjust your defenses to compensate for the change.

There could even be a game option to randomize that. Each horde night, the game randomly selected a ratio of the three intelligence levels so you never know if you will be defending against dumb zombies and need to focus on defenses from every direction or smart zombies and need to focus on defending against pathing, or a more average mix. And then that ratio lasts until the next horde night. It could make for very interesting horde nights
Click to expand...
Yes, definitely a mix wouldn't be bad, and it would make the defense less predictable instead of the same as always, without breaking the difficulty of the other zombies, in normal fights, I would add that the zombies with mutilated legs don't go towards the player and start breaking the base, the ancient spiders that climb too, and more types of z that could be added that I can't think of.
 
Double G said:
Zombies that actually act like zombies
Click to expand...

This topic title gave me pause. I had to reflect on what I thought a zombie (outside the game) actually acted like, and I couldn't really come to a conclusion on that. I wanted to say "like the movies" and then "well, which movies" and then "all of them, kind of."

I don't really think there's a consensus on what a zombie does, but the movies that "World War Z" zombies are more like what I think of for a 7D2D horde night, though I find myself also thinking of "I Am Legend" and "The Omega Man" with "The Last of Us" and "28 Days/Weeks/Months/Years/Decades Later" being kind of neat too.

Double G said:
I understand and completely agree with why zombies need to path more "intelligently". But do all of them have to?
Click to expand...

I can get behind the idea of several different behaviors, then maybe some toggles to turn on/off those behaviors.
 
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