Recapturing the survival element in 7D2D

[Dark Sun]

7D2D has in my opinion lost much of its grit and grime over the years, and recently I'd found fault with many of the "carrot on a stick" incentives the game pushes/heavily encourages nowadays, more detail of which is covered down below. On a quest to recapture some of the old school survival elements that might be lurking below the surface, I took the time to evaluate my playstyle on a notepad document and decipher what exactly was harming my experience long-term, and how I could make it better. Maybe this will provide some inspiration to those seeking it!

1) Traders - It is very easy to fall into the trader loop, questing once per day minimum, and it made me feel like I was acting as an errand monkey or post apocalyptic delivery person. For now, I've prohibited questing, although I *may* reintroduce it in the future, albeit at a much more limited scale. Bartering is still permitted, but only for certain items, including solar banks & cells, dew collector mods, and perhaps shotgun/SMG turrets and other hard-to-get items, and not common items including magazines, resources, etc.

Additionally, I no longer loot trader compounds (it feels a bit silly we are able to do so and no be penalized for it), and upon completing the tutorial quest line, I cancel the locate trader mission. Speaking of...

2) Challenges - As someone who doesn't like freebies or feel like I'm being pulled on a leash for a free reward, I've cut out focusing on the challenges entirely (including handing them in for XP), save for the tutorial challenges.

3) None of the following here is new for me, but I prefer a longer 50-70 hour game. As such, minmaxing perk points (ex. rushing to get Bookworm and Photographic Memory, only to respec later) is off the menu, the nerd outfit is forbidden, and I don't scour nearby towns for every bookstore, mailbox, and newspaper stand I lay my eyes on. I progress far more organically this way.

4) I take it slow. Running is kept to a minimum, replaced instead by walking from point A to point B, carefully making my way through POI's, and roleplaying as a real survivor. I do some roleplay like I'm a day 1 player again, spending the first day or two at spawn cutting down trees, smashing rocks, taking over and fortifying a nearby cabin.

Side note: I posted this topic on the subreddit this morning, and it received over 40 downvotes and dozens of people whining about jars and bandits in the comment section. lol I shouldn't have expected anything less. Perhaps the forums will be kinder... maybe?

 

[Roland]

1) Traders - It is very easy to fall into the trader loop, questing once per day minimum, and it made me feel like I was acting as an errand monkey or post apocalyptic delivery person. For now, I've prohibited questing, although I *may* reintroduce it in the future, albeit at a much more limited scale. Bartering is still permitted, but only for certain items, including solar banks & cells, dew collector mods, and perhaps shotgun/SMG turrets and other hard-to-get items, and not common items including magazines, resources, etc.

I select the 1 job per day option, usually get it done in the morning and then spend the rest of the day following my own objectives. I self restricted myself to that before the option was added and now just keep that option setting whenever I play solo. My family likes questing together so that's a different story. I don't mind bartering. I don't min/max harvesting and selling to be a duke millionaire so I'm always tight on money and have to make choices for what I want to buy.

Additionally, I no longer loot trader compounds (it feels a bit silly we are able to do so and no be penalized for it), and upon completing the tutorial quest line, I cancel the locate trader mission. Speaking of...

2) Challenges - As someone who doesn't like freebies or feel like I'm being pulled on a leash for a free reward, I've cut out focusing on the challenges entirely (including handing them in for XP), save for the tutorial challenges.

I shamelessly loot the trader compounds but I do hope they add faction rep consequences for doing it in the future. I like the challenges. I wish they had a randomly generated challenge set that renewed every once in awhile. Turning them in for xp is fine in my mind because earning xp progresses the world difficulty curve as well.

3) None of the following here is new for me, but I prefer a longer 50-70 hour game. As such, minmaxing perk points (ex. rushing to get Bookworm and Photographic Memory, only to respec later) is off the menu, the nerd outfit is forbidden, and I don't scour nearby towns for every bookstore, mailbox, and newspaper stand I lay my eyes on. I progress far more organically this way.

Just playing the game and reading magazines as you find them is a much more rewarding way to play, in my opinion. I never play mailman simulator or ever make my primary focus searching for magazines. I very much agree with your choice here.

4) I take it slow. Running is kept to a minimum, replaced instead by walking from point A to point B, carefully making my way through POI's, and roleplaying as a real survivor. I do some roleplay like I'm a day 1 player again, spending the first day or two at spawn cutting down trees, smashing rocks, taking over and fortifying a nearby cabin.

I can't just walk. It takes too long lol. But I do often try to put myself into my character. Like if I spawn near a remnant wilderness house, I will fix it up and stay there for a few days pretending like I'm not aware of the apocalypse until I'm attacked by a few zombies and then decide to look for a town to get information. One thing I do sometimes is reduce the days to 40 minutes to make it a bit more realistic for what I can accomplish within a day.

 

[Riamus]

I like to quest, so I have unlimited quests. It's not uncommon for me to do 4-5 a day until I have a bike. After that, it can be anywhere between 0-4, with many days not having any and then I'll do a bunch in a row. If I'm not questing, I'm usually scavenging or building. I mine when I need to and farm and cook and craft when I need to. But I'm usually doing something that involves killing zombies.

I don't buy much from traders other than solar stuff and dew collector mods. I may occasionally buy a magazine if I only need one or two to get something unlocked that I want unlocked. I might buy a book if it is something I really want (mineral water, for example), or if it's later in the game and I'm still looking for one more book to complete a set or something like that. But it's not common to buy books or magazines. Other than that, I might rarely buy a weapon if I'm having bad luck finding them, or I might buy a drone if I want one early and can't yet craft one. I'll also buy certain schematics if I see them, like the drone cargo mod rather than hope to find them. But otherwise, I don't buy much from the traders. And I never buy from vending machines.

I do loot trader compounds. I am someone who will look anywhere I can in any game if I can get away with it. Even if I'm playing a Good character, I'll steal stuff if I can do so without being caught. Might not be a good way to RP my character, but that's one thing I am willing to do regardless of any alignment for the character.

I like challenges in this game and others. I'm fine with getting rewards for doing the stuff. I'm going to get the stuff one way or another anyhow, so it's not a big deal to me.

My games, which are on 2 hour days, tend to last around 40-50 days, though my current one (only one since 2.0) has me bored by around day 28 or so. I'm still pretty burnt out with the game and 2.0 didn't offer anything to change that, unfortunately. But that's not surprising as we near the end of development. I'll get back into the game eventually. I still enjoy the game, but too many hours in one game gets tiring for me. This game has held my interest far better than most other games, so I definitely can't complain.

I did do the Intellect Master (up to 3) this game just to try out those perks. They definitely speed up magazines, though they didn't make much of an impact for armor magazines, unfortunately. I'm not sure that it really matters to me if I choose those perks or not. I do prefer late game over early game, so having those is nice. But I can take them or leave them. I never use nerd armor and I never respec. As far as searching for magazines, if I happen to find a bookstore while I'm going through a town, I'll stop. If I am going past a mailbox or newspaper stand, I'll usually stop. But I usually don't spend time just doing that unless I'm trying to unlock something and need a small number of magazines to do so. I do always stop if I see that electronics van since it often has some stuff I want.

I always run if I have stamina except in a POI until I get a vehicle and then I use the vehicle. In a POI, I often still run when there's no danger after I cleared an area or when going to the next danger. I hate walking in games. It's just too slow. I like action and walking slowly isn't fun for me. I usually do POI in the "right" way, following the path. However, I can sometimes just break in. For example, if I see an electronics store and I want to loot the stuff I'd find in there, I might just break in the door rather than work my way through the right path, especially if it's part of a strip of buildings that are one POI. Sometimes I'll also hit the loot room with or without completing the POI. But mostly I'll do things in order because I'd rather get all the look rather than only what's in the loot room. This game isn't one that I RP at all.

 

[Lax]

...Even if I'm playing a Good character, I'll steal stuff if I can do so without being caught...

I can picture you placing that bucket over the head of the Oblivion vendor as you proceed to steal everything in site.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

Traders, I rob em, you can thank Rekt for that, I'm not going to get anything game changing so it's just
rummaging to me. I do quests infrequently, until I get a bike. Is a necessity because of how I have my
biomes configured. They are smaller so I may get a quest from the trader that is nearly 3k away. That is
one thing I like about the quests, it looks for a poi in the associated biome regardless of the distance.
I also will sometimes pick a direction and travel, to far points of the map, and have to travel back at night.

I don't really pay attention to challenges, but I use them To push me over a point level when needed.

I like the long play, so more and more imposed simple restrictions, I go through the ages stone etc. until
I feel overwhelmed, then I use the saved books and points to level up a bit and keep going. I really like the
way stealth has worked now, and stealth is slow, so that is the armor and weapons I use, I only upgrade my
bow to compound and spear to iron. Armor as log as I have the stealthy pieces I don't worry about tier, so
far the highest I have had is T2 assassin, that just means don't get hit so much for me.

I act as Daryl Dixon, surviving on what's on hand, I hunt when I need, search for water when I need, eat canned
food that is found, and will eat eggs corn and potatoes as I come across a crop. It is like you stated above an
organic feeling. I wish there were some form of either sleep cycle, or rest period or my character would slow
and become weak, because I am usually moving day and night.

 

[Samcharles]

When traders first came out I did some of the quests. I felt like it made the game too easy for me so I stopped doing quests. Recently I started doing some quests again when I feel like the pace of the game is going a bit slow for me. Usually I don't do quests.
I try to barter with them only when I really need something. Gas for instance when I have the minibike and don't have the chemistry station yet.

I do like the free xp the challenges give so I make full use of those.

I like to give myself a reason to go into every biome. I love to explore. I just found an interesting POI today called Pete's Hideyhole. I just had to explore it even though my inventory was full.

I am a loot hound so I tend to loot almost every possible container. I slam on my brakes for mailboxes especially. I frequently go back to base encumbered.

I am a slow builder and progresser generally speaking. But I always have a real itch to get the pump shotgun and motorcycle because I just love them so much.

 

[Lax]

...I like to give myself a reason to go into every biome. I love to explore....

Curious how much time you spend in the burnt forest? There isn't much draw there for me. And what do you go there for?

Here's a breakdown of the percent time I tend to spend in each biome and why:

Pine Forest: 10% (starting biome, early game resources)

Burnt forest: 5% (find Trader Jen)

Desert: 20% (gathering Yucca, Alo, Oil Shale, locating Trader Bob)

Snow Biome: 40% (main base location, hunting meat, looting POIs, Zed XP kills)

Wasteland: 25% (end game base, XP farming, looting POIs)

 

[Samcharles]

Curious how much time you spend in the burnt forest? There isn't much draw there for me. And what do you go there for?

Here's a breakdown of the percent time I tend to spend in each biome and why:

Pine Forest: 10% (starting biome, early game resources)

Burnt forest: 5% (find Trader Jen)

Desert: 20% (gathering Yucca, Alo, Oil Shale, locating Trader Bob)

Snow Biome: 40% (main base location, hunting meat, looting POIs, Zed XP kills)

Wasteland: 25% (end game base, XP farming, looting POIs)

The Burnt Forest does actually have cities in it, (even in Navezgane). I don't know the actual percentage but I usually fight/loot in each biome until I feel prepared for the next one. I usually encounter a fair amount of boars to up my meat supply. The trees can also be a decent source of early game coal. I would say it's mainly a "stepping stone" biome until you can go into the other ones. Once I get into the desert I usually have no reason to go back to the Burnt Forest. Plus the Burnt Forest is so aesthetically crappy looking compared to other biomes. Well wasteland is too I suppose but it's still an interesting place.

TLDR: It's mainly for early game resources and exploration.

 

[Lax]

...Once I get into the desert I usually have no reason to go back to the Burnt Forest...

TLDR: It's mainly for early game resources and exploration.

Yup, me too. After I have what I need from a given Biome I usually don't go back. I really wish that was different.

Give us a compelling reason to go back to each biome. Place something of value in the biome that makes players want to go back.

"Secret Level" Imagine discovering a secret entrance to Trader Jen's compound with a stripper pole hiding in a back room. Steam numbers through the roof!

 

[Suxar]

Once I get into the desert I usually have no reason to go back to the Burnt Forest.

I never understood all these transitions, returns, etc. I usually don't run much in the burnt forest. I came to the desert, dug up some shale and left. I run more often in the winter biome, but only until I find a good place in the wasteland to move the base. Before moving, the base is in the forest. And moving doesn't happen in every game, with the advent of a motorcycle you can easily ride around the entire map.

 

[Samcharles]

I never understood all these transitions, returns, etc. I usually don't run much in the burnt forest. I came to the desert, dug up some shale and left. I run more often in the winter biome, but only until I find a good place in the wasteland to move the base. Before moving, the base is in the forest. And moving doesn't happen in every game, with the advent of a motorcycle you can easily ride around the entire map.

I like to go through all biomes. Probably due to my love of MMOs and my love of exploring and progression.

The last run I did I made a random map with a line layout of all biomes north to south. I generally liked it but the travel times became crazy once I hit the desert.

 

[Suxar]

Probably due to my love of MMOs and my love of exploring and progression.

In MMOs I always enjoyed interacting with other players, so I play on a dedicated server.

I generally liked it but the travel times became crazy once I hit the desert.

In a single game, I usually play on a small map. And on large maps, I just move to the wasteland because of the long travel time. And in the desert, I arrived, filled my inventory with slate and it usually lasts for the entire game.

 

[Kyoji]

I tend to stay in either the forest, desert or snow biome as I prefer the aesthetics there. I don't like the green hue of the wasteland (or the music) and the burnt forest is boring as well. If each of those biomes had more visual enjoyment I wouldn't mind going there.

I also don't typically like having multiple bases as it's a chore to move all my horded resources from one location to the next so I usually just start and stay in one of the three aforementioned biomes.

 

[Jeraal]

I tend to stay in either the forest, desert or snow biome as I prefer the aesthetics there. I don't like the green hue of the wasteland (or the music) and the burnt forest is boring as well. If each of those biomes had more visual enjoyment I wouldn't mind going there.

I also don't typically like having multiple bases as it's a chore to move all my horded resources from one location to the next so I usually just start and stay in one of the three aforementioned biomes.

The wasteland is just not visually appealing at all.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

It is like you stated above an organic feeling. I wish there were some form of either sleep cycle, or rest period or my character would slow
and become weak, because I am usually moving day and night.

The wasteland is just not visually appealing at all.

Yep. Not all concerns are purely mechanical. That's what's so difficult to get across to TFP, imo. The aesthetic and mechanical are severely out of balance in this game, imo. It's not the jars or how many jars in a stack or whether you can craft jars. At least, not exclusively. There are these little things called atmosphere, mood, the way it feels to be somewhere in particular or accomplish something. The more (over)development of mechanics, the more mechanical it feels to play the game -- like a robot going through the motions.

Not much, if any, attention has been paid to that important balance as I see it. That's where I come by the impression that programmers are being asked to or are attempting to do the work of graphic and sound artists.

Sleep -- Time has to pass the same for everyone in a multiplayer enivronment. That's why we can't just go into a menu, set a number of hours to sleep and expect night to becoming morning in the interim. Fallout 76 addressed this with a sleep menu that removes debuffs and provides a limited time "well rested" bonus. Is it awkward to "go to sleep" and "wake up" only to find nothing has changed in the interim? Yes, it is. Is it awkward to have to sit there (or go do something else) while your character sleeps? Yes, it is. But awkward doesn't indicate a problem. It's just awkward, and I'd challenge anyone to come up with a better solution in a multiplayer environment wherein time must pass the same for everyone.

Wasteland, Burnt, Whatever -- Effects on the player aren't the only concern. Are the visuals/audio, the atmosphere and mood appealing? "The Glow" of Fallout 4 was one of the most unique and interesting "biomes" to be in despite that there's nothing there but generic POIs with generic enemy types and one consequential NPC. Being in "the Glow" feels like being on another planet. It's a place of wonderment. That's the sort of thing BGS does exceptionally well. 7 Days? Burnt: identical trees standing straight up; occasional ember piles; and a gray pall over everything. Wasteland? Slightly better, especially now that rubble isn't everywhere. Do I expect triple A environmental quality in an indie game? No. Do I expect the kind of mood and atmosphere achieved by games like Subnautica? Yes.

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

Sleep -- Time has to pass the same for everyone in a multiplayer enivronment.

Subtlety and environment has been my main modding joy from the time I started.
For sleep I was thinking more along the lines of Project Zomboid, just without the
day cycle, so that it could be used for multiplayer.

Something more along the line of after a big battle, the player is naturally exerted,
so unless you find a place to rest, cop a squat, and take it slow, then stamina, refills
a lot slower, and stays below a certain point. That would give a different purpose to
investing in strength and agility.

As it stands now, all you have to do is be alive and as long as your water is above 50%
it raises at the same rate, Below 50% just taking a drink and you are good to go.