To the devs. Concerns about game direction

Old Crow said:
My honest theory is that they're just tired of working on the game after 13 years, and just want to get the game out.

Then again, they've come up with some weird ideas in the past, so maybe they just have a weird way of thinking.
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You do have to wonder at the rush to completion with major systems, e.g. the bandits (I don't personally care about), still undone. I can't say it's a universal sentiment, but have heard the echo of voices who aren't looking forward to 3.0 and 4.0 at this point. I don't know if TFP lost patience; are out of time and budget for this paricular game; the console sync-up and/or rumors of a new Real Engine* game on the horizon introduced pressures we can't see; or whatever else I can't guess, but the rush is deinitely on with the soon to be renamed smoothies and badges taking the place of actual gameplay, etc. I don't imagine there will ever be an explanation for it from TFP.

Some have expressed the hope TFP can "turn things around," but they were clearly happy with the 2.0 shipped, but for the storms they made clear they were still working on, and more than just a little miffed with the community in the dev stream. (Rick did lay blame on the community for "[putting them] behind" no matter what the true believers say.)

From where I sit, the vast majority of the development cycle has been comprised of the tug of war between the devs and supposed exploiters bragging on YouTube and elsewhere about supposedly defeating zombie AI and other systems, which may have started out creative and healthy, but certainly wasn't when I picked the game back up with A21.

It'll be interesting to see where it winds up, but I can't say I hold out much hope for 3.0 and 4.0 myself.

*The Real Engine rumors no doubt stem from the Unity controversy, which I'm sure had a lot of developers scrambling for other game engines.
 
Bulldog44 said:
I agree with what Archael posted in response. I am glad you enjoy it, I sincerely mean that, and to the tens of thousands of others who are enjoying it as well. I am one of them. However, I was much more interested in the initial directive of the game back in Alpha 16. ( I think that was the build ) where it was much closer to realistic ( yes it is a video game and yes it is a zombie apocalypse ) survival. The majority of items you needed could be crafted and those that couldn't were available to find or purchase. The current version limits the amount of crafting necessary. Now every POI is basically a "maze" that you need to follow. And I know they are making changes to the biome progression area but that alone to me shows where their objective is. It is less survival, less crafting and less open world play your way than I had hoped it would have become at this point. Just my two cents.
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Agree with you. I am not crazy about POIs being dungeons with a required root to follow. The only think that bothers me are when NOT following the the can stop you from completing a quest (usually some zombies not spawning due to a trigger you didnt know about. Overal I still love the game just felt 2.0 was a bit of a lazy update.
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Ornias said:
It seems to me that the devs can't decide on the direction they want to go. They have changed progression and gameplay philosophy several times over at this point. I do think they get annoyed that modders add stuff in a week that they have failed to add in a decade.
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Agreed. They do seem, from my perspective as a player, as if they still are not sure what what game they want to make with 7d2d. Not saying that is bad or good but it will likely mean backtracking when they try things that are not well received.
 
Archael said:
I havnt said that those legendary parts have to be everywhere. Make it in t5 pois. Or as a reward for infested t5 quest, but make it related to skill, not just random crap that everyone can get. make strenght character who used sledgehammers as a juggernaut, being able to craft lvl6 steel sledgehammer being able to find legendary unique sledgehammer parts in t5 poi and only him being able to reassemble that weapon, not the survivor who cant even craft stone sledgehammer lvl3.
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I feel the same way. Legendary parts are so common that they’ve become almost meaningless.
 
Archael said:
Now it’s all:
Quest → POI → return → repeat.
And we call that progress?
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This. So much this. It's a terrible game loop. I miss starting out as the scavenger.

Also, where does the storm siren come from? And who is it for? It doesn't make sense, and also the traders don't make sense, in any world that is not multiplayer.
 
My preferable changes:
1. Toggle for traders. If they are disabled, make quests as found notes.
2. Magazines have to go. My idea is to learn crafting better items by just using them.
3. Redo whole skill trees, I would like to be strong miner who uses snipers before killing with pickaxe in close combat.
4. Action skills are fun, instead of increasing proficiency of weapon via skill points, increase it via using it.
4a. Armor and maybe other general skills can be what they are, skill points and magazines. That one fits.
5. Unique weapons - made them unique and challenging. Start with high lvl poi, where you find note, that leads to schematic. Then find parts of the weapon on other high lvl pois, and then, when having enough crafting skill for this weapon, combine all parts, like back in some previous alpha we was combining weapons to create new one. That was fun too.
6. Survival. More food, more meals, better farming. More engaging survival aspect.
7. Biom progression. Hazards in next biom should be resolved by things that can be found/crafted in current biom. And preparation should be rewarding, next biom a should have new recipes, new loot, new rewards.
8. Story doesn't break sandbox, look at Minecraft. Make special notes that leads us to specific items if we don't have them, to progress to new bioms, weaponize ourselves, and then, with same story notes, meet final boss.
 
pApA^LeGBa said:
I am done with hoping that TFP does the right decisions tbh, i watched parts of the Town Hall stream and i can tell they were not happy at all, having to do changes, part of me was hoping that the biome progression was just a place holder and that a rework was planned anyways, but no, they acutally thought a to do list is a good idea. I just hope the modders keep doing their thing until after 4.0 and that someone makes a good LBD/Perk/Recipes&Books skill system for the game.
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They are actually excited about the coming changes to both storms and biome hazards. From their chatter, I don't sense any unhappiness. The changes they are making, they honestly feel will be improvements and they are hopeful the community will enjoy them.

They did think a to do list was a good idea mostly because the Challenges UI was new as of 1.0 and they wanted to utilize it with their 2.0 update. I like the idea of the to do list, myself. My only gripe was that they were all exactly the same for each biome. I would have liked to have seen more involving tasks that would require playing more than just 10-20 minutes under the threat of the hazards before it was permanently erased. Hopefully, the mats needed to craft the replacement for the biome badge will be at least as involving as the to do list was.
 
Roland said:
They did think a to do list was a good idea mostly because the Challenges UI was new as of 1.0 and they wanted to utilize it with their 2.0 update.
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How unfortunate. The supposed "challenges" window is comprised of ordinary "stuff to do" you'll do over the course of normal gameplay. Don't even have to look at the challenges window to complete said challenges that aren't. Will some treat it religiously? Look at the challenges window and think, "I must tick this off. I must tick that off." Sure: min-maxers and completionists. A to-do list, however, does not a gameplay system make. Quite the opposite. A good gameplay system suggests supposed "challenges" and "achievements." Iow, systems come first.
 
"You're right — the tasks in the to-do list could use some rethinking. I assume they were made simple to accommodate players who want to earn badges quickly.
What if there were a system similar to trader quests, where you only need to complete a selection of tasks? For example, there could be 10 tasks in total, but you only need to finish 5 of them to complete the objective."
 
Roland said:
I would have liked to have seen more involving tasks that would require playing more than just 10-20 minutes under the threat of the hazards before it was permanently erased.
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More for you, less for me. I usually went to the desert only for slate. In winter, I usually ran for snow. I tried to move to the wasteland as quickly as possible and live and plunder there.

I hope I like the changes with independent biome opening.
 
InfiniteWarrior said:
A to-do list, however, does not a gameplay system make.
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Perhaps you meant to say a "good" gameplay system because what I quoted above is rubbish. Of course a to-do list is a gameplay system. In fact, it is pretty much the main gameplay system of most video games. The packaging might be different from game to game but they all boil down to to-do lists. Maybe Johnny prefers a wandering NPC to tell him the next task, maybe Suzie prefers finding a note that tells her the next task, maybe Billy prefers solving a puzzle to learn the next task, and maybe Mary prefers a shopping list to check off. Each of them will consider the packaging of the to-do list "good" if they have fun playing through it and look at the others as "tedious" or "artificial" if they don't have fun.

But make no mistake, you can't get away from to-do list gameplay systems if you are playing video games. You just have to recognize the packaging.

As to the challenge system which is basically a shopping list style of to-do list, the way it is set up doesn't bother me. I think it is good enough and don't really care if I have to face an NPC with a dialogue tree, or find a letter in a safe, or solve some kind of spatial logic puzzle or win a minigame to get each item on the list. For myself and my own wishes, the to-do list can definitely be improved with tasks that are unique to each biome and in agreement with you, something more than simple mundane tasks we do anyway during the course of play. Unfortunately, I don't think that is going to happen. I think they are going to continue to make the tasks be basic gathering/harvesting/killing tasks and they will be exactly parallel for each biome. For me, I don't think that's bad, per se, but not as good as it could have been. Someone else might hate what I want and be perfectly happy with the basic tasks that don't take too long so they can quickly finish them and be done.
 
plzkthxbye said:
I love magazines because I love looting (i.e., scavenging). It gives me a great reason to check anything and everything.
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Yes, this is only one playstyle that is covered with this system. What about others? Why everyone have to play this one way that happens You liking? Why not make a system that can fit into all playstyles?
 
Roland said:
They are actually excited about the coming changes to both storms and biome hazards. From their chatter, I don't sense any unhappiness. The changes they are making, they honestly feel will be improvements and they are hopeful the community will enjoy them.
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That's great news! The badges and storms we've had so far have always felt like placeholders. I think Faatal mentioned that the idea is that players aren't supposed to just sit idly in a POI, but rather sprint from shelter to shelter.
 
Old Crow said:
My honest theory is that they're just tired of working on the game after 13 years, and just want to get the game out.

Then again, they've come up with some weird ideas in the past, so maybe they just have a weird way of thinking.
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Some ideas are good they had others like recently....not good
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Archael said:
Yes, this is only one playstyle that is covered with this system. What about others? Why everyone have to play this one way that happens You liking? Why not make a system that can fit into all playstyles?
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Thats why a hybrid of all 3 would be best
 
Adam the Waster said:
Thats why a hybrid of all 3 would be best
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Yes, this cannot be one type of progression, but still, how to do it to fit all playstyles? Right now most progression is through looting. Quests forces players to loot POIs and gives more chances to loot the same POI, and this is one playstyle.
From questing we have:
dukes for things in traders stock (so basically everything)
Magazines which are craftng progression.
Skillbooks which are additional perks.
Materials for crafting and survival - while raw materials can be mined, harvested, and salvaged. Materials like food cans for higher lvl food can only be found. Not to mention that mining gives lots of but of one resource, while questing gives mediocre but all of them - ore, salvage, hunt, harvest. So You need less skill points to max income from questing.

I think that removing magazines, would be the least we should have.
Crafting progression (in my opinion, its not objective thruth) should be from using items - more i use rifles,better rifles i can craft. But not any item. Using item of T0 (pipe rifle) i can learn to craft Q6 T0 rifle. I have to use at least Q5 T0 rifle to learn how to craft Q1 T1 rifle. (So still i can do it with looting and questing, but its not as forced, and there are alternatives)
 
Archael said:
Yes, this cannot be one type of progression, but still, how to do it to fit all playstyles? Right now most progression is through looting. Quests forces players to loot POIs and gives more chances to loot the same POI, and this is one playstyle.
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The available activities in the game—whether it's questing, casual exploration, or turning zombies into mince—may vary, but ultimately, your crafting level progresses through loot.
I think many players would be more satisfied if crafting recipes could also be unlocked through systems like skill points or the to-do list. Of course, it would need proper balancing.
 
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kemomimi said:
The available activities in the game—whether it's questing, casual exploration, or turning zombies into mince—may vary, but ultimately, your crafting level progresses through loot.
I think many players would be more satisfied if crafting recipes could also be unlocked through systems like skill points or the to-do list. Of course, it would need proper balancing.
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According to suggestion I made in post You took quote from.
If player don't care about mining, because for example is the explorer in multiplayer coop, and do casual salvaging, then their mining tools and mining tools crafting will be low, and they wouldn't care about that. While their salvage tool (and maybe vehicle?) crafting skill and tools will progress, which is intended and welcome progression.
Skill points would also work in terms of crafting skills, and would fit being tied to attribute levels much better than some current perks.
This would require overhaul of skill trees tho.
 
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