Still Dislike The "Nowhere Is Safe" Philosophy For This Game

never meaningfully attacked where they live.
I think the OP's point is that such is happening pretty much all the time now and it's a matter of degree unless I'm misunderstanding. To try and balance solo and multiplayer play would be a fool's errand, I think. So, yes, possibly increase the number of options.
 
I like the idea of nowhere is safe because it keeps me on my toes. I do think they haven't quite found the sweet spot for the heat hitting 100% Heat generation. It feels a bit high at the moment.
I also really dislike that they made dew collectors generate heat. I understand they want getting water to be somewhat challenging. But I think it's time to stop tweaking water collection for further difficulty.
 
Yeah, it can happen if you're chased there by a wandering horde. Otherwise, it's not really a possibility since there aren't enough around to stack up on top of one another. Kill a couple and even that won't really be a problem.
Or as I did, hit them with a Molotov and killed the two that made it in. The traders should really have turrets to kill any that make it into their compounds lol
 
I think the OP's point is that such is happening pretty much all the time now and it's a matter of degree unless I'm misunderstanding. To try and balance solo and multiplayer play would be a fool's errand, I think. So, yes, possibly increase the number of options.

Agreed which would be perfect as a setting on how sensitive screamers are. For those who like the constant threat turn it up and if you dont turn it down. From what I can see there is a very wide range of folks from hardcore to just builder types. Personally I would love more random hoardes but as a setting so my desire for punishment doesnt ruin the fun of those who want a more relaxing game.
 
Y'know...I still don't see why it would be such a big deal for traders to be open 24/7.
I use a modlet for that, and it is still so seldom that I spend the night there anyway.

Now the few times I have tried to play on a MP server, I think there really should be a safe spot, because it isn't really convenient to log out and log back in just because you need to go to the head or get a drink.

Even if you want to skip horde night by hiding out, who cares? You are missing out on great XP, loot and action. Everyone makes such a big ■■■■ing deal out of it that god forbid it was a simple game option.
 
Thanks everyone for your comments. Just in case I've confused anyone, here's what I'm getting at.

Screamers:

I don't mind Screamers being the risk factor when it comes to generating too much heat, but I feel like the current versions are far too sensitive to heat. It makes doing anything that functions off the heat system a headache because it takes so little heat to summon a Screamer, but there are so many things that generate heat. Even 3 dew collectors by themselves will generate enough to summon a Screamer. This is the main reason why I said that a player can't do anything because everything is unsafe.

Zombie Spawn Rule Expansion:

I don't mind that the zombie spawning rule for the wasteland was expanded to the other biomes. It makes building a base out in the wilderness away from the town pointless now, which sucks, but other than that it's not an issue.

Digging/Swimming Zombies:

In all zombies movies there is always a safe haven. The thing that usually messes up the safety of that haven is that someone forgets to do something, or overlooks something, and the zombies get in. If I'm building my base deep underground, high in the air, or in the water, it's because I'm trying to make it as safe a haven as it can be. However, on horde night, that's when nowhere should be safe. That's when zombies should be able to swim and dig in order to accomplish said aesthetic so a player can't just hide in their base on horde night with no risk whatsoever.

Zombie Super Hearing In Storms:

It makes no sense and isn't necessary, just like Screamers and cop zombies having x-ray vision. Why is there a feral sense option when it seems like zombies are slowly getting like abilities naturally? There's already a storm and it already does damage to the player if they go out in it. That should be the penalty. Why is there also a penalty for the player who follows the rules and finds shelter to wait out the storm?
 
Y'know...I still don't see why it would be such a big deal for traders to be open 24/7.
I use a modlet for that, and it is still so seldom that I spend the night there anyway.

Now the few times I have tried to play on a MP server, I think there really should be a safe spot, because it isn't really convenient to log out and log back in just because you need to go to the head or get a drink.

Even if you want to skip horde night by hiding out, who cares? You are missing out on great XP, loot and action. Everyone makes such a big ■■■■ing deal out of it that god forbid it was a simple game option.
Except that you could fight the horde during horde night while inside the trader. Either shooting through the fence gate for some or standing on top of a platform on others. Yes, they'll be able to get over the walls if they are standing on top of one another, but a lot of traders have places you could jump to that zombies couldn't. It might not be perfectly safe, but you'd never have to worry about damage to your base. I don't really think that's a good thing. But I also don't care if it's an option.
 
Except that you could fight the horde during horde night while inside the trader. Either shooting through the fence gate for some or standing on top of a platform on others. Yes, they'll be able to get over the walls if they are standing on top of one another, but a lot of traders have places you could jump to that zombies couldn't. It might not be perfectly safe, but you'd never have to worry about damage to your base. I don't really think that's a good thing. But I also don't care if it's an option.
Honestly I wish there was a middle ground, like I would love to use a base like one of the outposts or some of the "scrap fort" POIs (the proper name escapes me) or even the prison with chainlink fences. The problem is it's like all or nothing, they are either too easily destroyed to be fun or they are invulnerable like the traders and not much fun either.

State of Decay (1 not the crappy sequel) had a good thematic feel, even if it was way too easy. The horde came down the street and you could set traps and fight it on the way, or you could just wait until it got to the base and your people would shoot them from your watchtower if you built one. Sometimes they would break in the gates and pour into the yard, but it generally wasn't too serious.

Another great feature they nixed in the sequel for some reason was barricading the windows of a house (either as a mission to help some other survivor group or just to secure yourself while looting, since it made noise, which drew attention) and then defending it.
 
Thanks everyone for your comments. Just in case I've confused anyone, here's what I'm getting at.

Screamers:

I don't mind Screamers being the risk factor when it comes to generating too much heat, but I feel like the current versions are far too sensitive to heat. It makes doing anything that functions off the heat system a headache because it takes so little heat to summon a Screamer, but there are so many things that generate heat. Even 3 dew collectors by themselves will generate enough to summon a Screamer. This is the main reason why I said that a player can't do anything because everything is unsafe.

Zombie Spawn Rule Expansion:

I don't mind that the zombie spawning rule for the wasteland was expanded to the other biomes. It makes building a base out in the wilderness away from the town pointless now, which sucks, but other than that it's not an issue.

Digging/Swimming Zombies:

In all zombies movies there is always a safe haven. The thing that usually messes up the safety of that haven is that someone forgets to do something, or overlooks something, and the zombies get in. If I'm building my base deep underground, high in the air, or in the water, it's because I'm trying to make it as safe a haven as it can be. However, on horde night, that's when nowhere should be safe. That's when zombies should be able to swim and dig in order to accomplish said aesthetic so a player can't just hide in their base on horde night with no risk whatsoever.

Zombie Super Hearing In Storms:

It makes no sense and isn't necessary, just like Screamers and cop zombies having x-ray vision. Why is there a feral sense option when it seems like zombies are slowly getting like abilities naturally? There's already a storm and it already does damage to the player if they go out in it. That should be the penalty. Why is there also a penalty for the player who follows the rules and finds shelter to wait out the storm?

*Screamers
I think you're vastly over-stating how often screamers appear(Even when babysitting 3-4+ stations in use, I only get them sometime), and if you aren't, I have recommendations: Keep your dew collectors a short hike from your base/crafters/dropchests.
You don't have to keep your workstations operating at all times, but if you are starting up a lot of crafting: once you get your fires and forges cooking, go on a little side project- hit a poi, chop some trees, go exploring for new targets, or find an airdrop. We can imagine those screamers came, looked around, didn't see anything and left.

*Zomb Spawns
The zombie spawning mechanic has never been an issue to me while building bases- maybe it could be in harder biomes, but by then you should be(And are expected to be) armed appropriately to handle the threat.

*Water/Digging
Zombies should probably move slower in water, but I fully support them swimming and coming after you. If someone wants to do a water build or an underground build because they don't want to engage vs the horde, why not simply disable hordes in the settings?

*Storm behavior
Particularly in videogames, I'm willing to suspend disbelief in favor of things being what I consider to be cool. -And I think it's pretty freakin' cool that the storms whip the zombies into a frenzy. If it's problematic, storm settings let you make them rarer, disable their effects, and I think you can turn off storms entirely.

If you need to feel safer still, next suggestion is to turn down zombie difficulty.

I don't understand this 'I need to feel super-safe in the undead apocalypse' mentality - if it were easy, 99.9% of the population wouldn't be trying to eat your face right now. That said with the tools already given to us you can already get pretty ■■■■ safe.. If it's just your crafting base, set up some traps- a few well-placed turrets will handle most problems.
 
1.0 expanded the zombie spawning mechanic for the wasteland to all biomes and introduced the new way Screamers spawn from heat.
This was in all versions. Moreover, there was also a smell at one time, which was removed. Moreover, in 1.0, a timeout appeared for screamers and they stopped coming at an interval of 1 minute.
 
*Screamers
I think you're vastly over-stating how often screamers appear(Even when babysitting 3-4+ stations in use, I only get them sometime), and if you aren't, I have recommendations: Keep your dew collectors a short hike from your base/crafters/dropchests.
You don't have to keep your workstations operating at all times, but if you are starting up a lot of crafting: once you get your fires and forges cooking, go on a little side project- hit a poi, chop some trees, go exploring for new targets, or find an airdrop. We can imagine those screamers came, looked around, didn't see anything and left.

*Zomb Spawns
The zombie spawning mechanic has never been an issue to me while building bases- maybe it could be in harder biomes, but by then you should be(And are expected to be) armed appropriately to handle the threat.

*Water/Digging
Zombies should probably move slower in water, but I fully support them swimming and coming after you. If someone wants to do a water build or an underground build because they don't want to engage vs the horde, why not simply disable hordes in the settings?

*Storm behavior
Particularly in videogames, I'm willing to suspend disbelief in favor of things being what I consider to be cool. -And I think it's pretty freakin' cool that the storms whip the zombies into a frenzy. If it's problematic, storm settings let you make them rarer, disable their effects, and I think you can turn off storms entirely.

If you need to feel safer still, next suggestion is to turn down zombie difficulty.

I don't understand this 'I need to feel super-safe in the undead apocalypse' mentality - if it were easy, 99.9% of the population wouldn't be trying to eat your face right now. That said with the tools already given to us you can already get pretty ■■■■ safe.. If it's just your crafting base, set up some traps- a few well-placed turrets will handle most problems.
Screamers:

I've heard of others being able to run 3-4 workstations, or mine for long periods of time, and barely see any Screamers. That has not been mine or the people I play with in our group's experience. We get Screamers just from running 1 station, and trying to mine is like a Screamer guarantee. Going on side projects and leaving the crafting stations alone at the base has also proven to be a bad idea. We have had zombies/Screamers show up at that location anyway (while nobody was there) and cause destruction.

Pre 1.0 Screamers were not a problem like their post 1.0 counterparts are. There should be an option to revert them to pre 1.0 operation, current operation, or turn them off completely.

Zombie Spawns:

Like I said before, don't mind this change, with the exception that it makes building a base away from towns pointless.

Water/Digging

Like I said before, no swimming and digging for zombies outside of horde night. During horde night, yes they should be able to swim and dig to come after the player.

Zombie Storm Behavior:

Everyone is going to have their own feelings about this. If it's good for you, then awesome. I don't like it and think it's unnecessary.


This was in all versions. Moreover, there was also a smell at one time, which was removed. Moreover, in 1.0, a timeout appeared for screamers and they stopped coming at an interval of 1 minute.
The Screamer cooldown (in my experience) doesn't always function correctly. There have been times we've taken out a Screamer and her friends only to have another one show up five real time minutes later.
 
Screamers:

I've heard of others being able to run 3-4 workstations, or mine for long periods of time, and barely see any Screamers. That has not been mine or the people I play with in our group's experience. We get Screamers just from running 1 station, and trying to mine is like a Screamer guarantee. Going on side projects and leaving the crafting stations alone at the base has also proven to be a bad idea. We have had zombies/Screamers show up at that location anyway (while nobody was there) and cause destruction.

Pre 1.0 Screamers were not a problem like their post 1.0 counterparts are. There should be an option to revert them to pre 1.0 operation, current operation, or turn them off completely.

Zombie Spawns:

Like I said before, don't mind this change, with the exception that it makes building a base away from towns pointless.

Water/Digging

Like I said before, no swimming and digging for zombies outside of horde night. During horde night, yes they should be able to swim and dig to come after the player.

Zombie Storm Behavior:

Everyone is going to have their own feelings about this. If it's good for you, then awesome. I don't like it and think it's unnecessary.



The Screamer cooldown (in my experience) doesn't always function correctly. There have been times we've taken out a Screamer and her friends only to have another one show up five real time minutes later.
A tip for dealing with screamers that I do is, make a hole in the ground and fill it with spikes, when the screamers come, try not to let them see you crouching, equip stones in your belt and throw them into the hole, the screamers will look for the stone and fall into the trap, this is more useful at the beginning of the game when the screamers are not radiated, you can also use other electric traps later on.

To mine without interruption, build a square of blocks with a hatch, and surround it with spikes, the screamers will die alone and the rest of the zombies, later when the zombies are stronger you can use mines or electric traps.
 
The Screamer cooldown (in my experience) doesn't always function correctly. There have been times we've taken out a Screamer and her friends only to have another one show up five real time minutes later.
At least it exists. In older versions there were times when the screamers would come one after another, and I didn't even have time to kill them. Some blood moons seemed like a respite to me.
 
A tip for dealing with screamers that I do is, make a hole in the ground and fill it with spikes, when the screamers come, try not to let them see you crouching, equip stones in your belt and throw them into the hole, the screamers will look for the stone and fall into the trap, this is more useful at the beginning of the game when the screamers are not radiated, you can also use other electric traps later on.

To mine without interruption, build a square of blocks with a hatch, and surround it with spikes, the screamers will die alone and the rest of the zombies, later when the zombies are stronger you can use mines or electric traps.
This is what I'm talking about. Remember when you didn't have to go through all of that just to stop one entity? Why did it need to be changed?
At least it exists. In older versions there were times when the screamers would come one after another, and I didn't even have time to kill them. Some blood moons seemed like a respite to me.
So was that a good time for you or not?
 
So was that a good time for you or not?
It has become easier to do production now. I don't understand why people started complaining about screamers, they come in pairs, but they come less often. I have 8 forges, it is rare that they all work, but 6 working at the same time is almost normal.
 
This is what I'm talking about. Remember when you didn't have to go through all of that just to stop one entity? Why did it need to be changed?
Honestly, I get the impression the devs were looking for ways to spring more surprise attacks on players and chose Screamer to be the trigger. Unfortunately, that's made heat generation a neglible concern and robbed Screamer of her "special," i.e. relatively rare, status.
 
It has become easier to do production now. I don't understand why people started complaining about screamers, they come in pairs, but they come less often. I have 8 forges, it is rare that they all work, but 6 working at the same time is almost normal.
Well if it's good for you, it's good for you.

Honestly, I get the impression the devs were looking for ways to spring more surprise attacks on players and chose Screamer to be the trigger. Unfortunately, that's made heat generation a negligible concern and robbed Screamer of her "special," i.e. relatively rare, status.
I think so too and that was the wrong way to go. Heat generation (in my opinion) was never a negligible concern even in the old school days. There was always a consequence and it was fine the way it worked pre 1.0 . Post 1.0 the consequence outweighs the reward.
 
This philosophy is what led to zombies being able to dig underground to circumvent players who built their bases underground, and what led to zombies being able to swim to circumvent players who built their bases in the water.
Late to the thread, but just a note. Neither of these features were added for those reasons.

Both of these systems existed in the game originally, but were removed temporarily because they were buggy and caused problems. While they were away, players took advantage. That does not make the purpose of fixing them to circumvent the way players play.

However there are some examples of TFP doing actually that. Like after introducing vehicles to the game, players decided to just outrun the horde on vehicles.
 
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