PC V2.0 Storms Brewing Dev Diary

HammerDano said:
(just throwing out an idea to go Idk if it is practical) at first I thought "that airport idea would really work in a dlc"
but listening to the idea get bounced along made me wonder if a Large Airport Tile could be tied to trigger once in the wasteland only, where there is the most map room and the largest cities?
Click to expand...

The problem with mega POIs or tiles is that -- especially with recent version of the game -- oversized tiles can completely wreck a map. They get in the way of roads, they can partly spawn inside city limits, wrecking streettiles, and even wreck other wilderness POIs.
 
EvilPolygons said:
As I mentioned earlier, a 2-tile settlement (or 3-tile with a gateway, as zztong suggested) done correctly would reliably give you two 300-block long runways. 250 - 300 blocks is where I personally think runways have to be, minimum. Of course, I haven't tested this cap + straight combo to see if it would actually work. But I think it just might.
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3 tile isn't guaranteed to be straight. Anyhow, the shortest commercial runway in the world is 400 meters. You could do that on a 3 tile long town if it's straight, but that's still a very short runway compared to most runways. It can be done and many people would be fine with it, but you'd see a lot of players who would complain about it being too short if they added it to vanilla. It's easier to not include it than to deal with a lot of complaints about it being unrealistic. It's far easier to add as a mod since people aren't so upset about mods being unrealistic.

HammerDano said:
(just throwing out an idea to go Idk if it is practical) at first I thought "that airport idea would really work in a dlc"
but listening to the idea get bounced along made me wonder if a Large Airport Tile could be tied to trigger once in the wasteland only, where there is the most map room and the largest cities?
Click to expand...
They could add things like airplane blocks as a DLC if they didn't want to add them to the base game, but that doesn't solve the issue with placing the airport in a reliable way on the map with RWG. That would require some method to guarantee that tiles are placed in the correct way, which would have to come in the base game rather than a DLC. The game only supports tiles or POI up to 150x150 reliably. You can usually get closer to 200x200 before running into problems, but it's not reliable. So you have to be able to create something like an airport using some method to connect multiple tiles together it a way that works for an airport, which is currently not possible in RWG.

Just some of the issues with too-large POI or tiles include:
  • Stability being lost because the POI or tile is on too many different chunks that don't all load at the same time and so stuff collapses (this can happen to large bases as well).
  • Only part of a POI/tile loading, causing you to not have the entire POI/tile.
  • Roads clipping into the POI/tile.
  • Other POI clipping into the POI/tile.
  • Performance problems caused by too much detail in the large POI/tile.
 
Riamus said:
3 tile isn't guaranteed to be straight. Anyhow, the shortest commercial runway in the world is 400 meters. You could do that on a 3 tile long town if it's straight, but that's still a very short runway compared to most runways. It can be done and many people would be fine with it, but you'd see a lot of players who would complain about it being too short if they added it to vanilla. It's easier to not include it than to deal with a lot of complaints about it being unrealistic. It's far easier to add as a mod since people aren't so upset about mods being unrealistic.


They could add things like airplane blocks as a DLC if they didn't want to add them to the base game, but that doesn't solve the issue with placing the airport in a reliable way on the map with RWG. That would require some method to guarantee that tiles are placed in the correct way, which would have to come in the base game rather than a DLC. The game only supports tiles or POI up to 150x150 reliably. You can usually get closer to 200x200 before running into problems, but it's not reliable. So you have to be able to create something like an airport using some method to connect multiple tiles together it a way that works for an airport, which is currently not possible in RWG.

Just some of the issues with too-large POI or tiles include:
  • Stability being lost because the POI or tile is on too many different chunks that don't all load at the same time and so stuff collapses (this can happen to large bases as well).
  • Only part of a POI/tile loading, causing you to not have the entire POI/tile.
  • Roads clipping into the POI/tile.
  • Other POI clipping into the POI/tile.
  • Performance problems caused by too much detail in the large POI/tile.
Click to expand...
i was being more simplistic...I meant a dlc map that had the airport as a major theme of it. sorry
 
HammerDano said:
i was being more simplistic...I meant a dlc map that had the airport as a major theme of it. sorry
Click to expand...

Oh, a premade map like Navezgane? That would totally work, yeah.
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Riamus said:
3 tile isn't guaranteed to be straight. Anyhow, the shortest commercial runway in the world is 400 meters. You could do that on a 3 tile long town if it's straight, but that's still a very short runway compared to most runways. It can be done and many people would be fine with it, but you'd see a lot of players who would complain about it being too short if they added it to vanilla. It's easier to not include it than to deal with a lot of complaints about it being unrealistic. It's far easier to add as a mod since people aren't so upset about mods being unrealistic.
Click to expand...

A straight with N S exits can only connect N and S, no matter which way you flip the tile. If you runways are built into the tile itself on the east and west sides, running parallel to north and south, and that tile connects to a matching cap tile which ALSO has runways on its east and west sides, running north to south, then you get a combined runway of 300 blocks for each runway. And there is NO chance of a cap and straight forming a corner. It's simply impossible.

I should also add that, when you're writing your own townships and districts in the rwgmixer, there's nothing stopping you from defining a 5-tile township built completely out of straights and a cap.
 
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EvilPolygons said:
Oh, a premade map like Navezgane? That would totally work, yeah.
Click to expand...
lol...I really could have been clearer.
I lump pre made maps in with dlc

would be a big project but, what fun it could be...there are some really talented modders here, and these would/could be like an unguided D&D campaign.
but, idk if that kind of dlc will be possible/allowed
 
EvilPolygons said:
Oh, a premade map like Navezgane? That would totally work, yeah.
Post automatically merged:



A straight with N S exits can only connect N and S, no matter which way you flip the tile. If you runways are built into the tile itself on the east and west sides, running parallel to north and south, and that tile connects to a matching cap tile which ALSO has runways on its east and west sides, running north to south, then you get a combined runway of 300 blocks for each runway. And there is NO chance of a cap and straight forming a corner. It's simply impossible.

I should also add that, when you're writing your own townships and districts in the rwgmixer, there's nothing stopping you from defining a 5-tile township built completely out of straights and a cap.
Click to expand...
Note that I was talking about a 3-tile one. A 2-tile one can't reach even the size of the shortest commercial runway in the world. Good enough for some, sure. For others? No. Like I said, it's easier to just not include it than to have a lot of complaints about it not being realistic.

As far as straights.... look at it this way. Let's say your runway is East to West. You want your terminal and other main buildings to be on the same side of the runway, let's say the North side. Now, what happens when one straight tile for the runway is rotated 180? The runway will be fine, but now you might have the terminal that is connected to one runway tile on the South and other buildings that are on the other runway tile being on the North.

As far as rwgmixer, if you can specific exactly what tiles are used, then that's an option. I was not aware that was an option. I was under the impression that you could set the districts to use and the size of the town, but that the tiles for those districts would be randomly chosen from among the different types (straight, T, cap, corner, etc) to fit within the available space and size.
 
Riamus said:
Note that I was talking about a 3-tile one. A 2-tile one can't reach even the size of the shortest commercial runway in the world. Good enough for some, sure. For others? No. Like I said, it's easier to just not include it than to have a lot of complaints about it not being realistic.

As far as straights.... look at it this way. Let's say your runway is East to West. You want your terminal and other main buildings to be on the same side of the runway, let's say the North side. Now, what happens when one straight tile for the runway is rotated 180? The runway will be fine, but now you might have the terminal that is connected to one runway tile on the South and other buildings that are on the other runway tile being on the North.

As far as rwgmixer, if you can specific exactly what tiles are used, then that's an option. I was not aware that was an option. I was under the impression that you could set the districts to use and the size of the town, but that the tiles for those districts would be randomly chosen from among the different types (straight, T, cap, corner, etc) to fit within the available space and size.
Click to expand...

No. Your airport buildings go between the runways, along the N S corridor. So no matter which way the tiles flip, they always line up. Again, each tile has TWO runways build into it.

1 ***** 2
1 ***** 2
1 ***** 2
1 ***** 2

1 = runway one
2 = runway two
* = airport buildings, parking, etc

If you put that on a straight tile, no matter which way you flip it, the 1's 2's and *'s are going to line up north to south.
 
EvilPolygons said:
No. Your airport buildings go between the runways, along the N S corridor. So no matter which way the tiles flip, they always line up. Again, each tile has TWO runways build into it.

1 ***** 2
1 ***** 2
1 ***** 2
1 ***** 2
Click to expand...
If this is still being talked about as a vanilla poi...shouldn't an a airport be a wilderness poi? most airports around here are next to a city but definitely not IN the city. would that help with generation availability?
 
EvilPolygons said:
No. Your airport buildings go between the runways, along the N S corridor. So no matter which way the tiles flip, they always line up. Again, each tile has TWO runways build into it.

1 ***** 2
1 ***** 2
1 ***** 2
1 ***** 2

1 = runway one
2 = runway two
* = airport buildings, parking, etc

If you put that on a straight tile, no matter which way you flip it, the 1's 2's and *'s are going to line up north to south.
Click to expand...
Oh. Yeah, if you put stuff between 2 runways, then yeah, the rotation doesn't matter. But it would look weird to have your terminal and parking lot and stuff between runways. They don't normally have people driving down a road between two runways to reach the terminal. It creates too much risk. Runways usually have fences around them without any external roads leading to them without first going through a locked gate.
 
HammerDano said:
If this is still being talked about as a vanilla poi...shouldn't an a airport be a wilderness poi? most airports around here are next to a city but definitely not IN the city. would that help with generation availability?
Click to expand...

Yep, if i ever get around to actually trying this with my wilderness/township method (in Mod Discussions) that's exactly how this will spawn. The game treats it as a township, but what it looks like is a big ol' wilderness POI with a road going to it.
 
HammerDano said:
If this is still being talked about as a vanilla poi...shouldn't an a airport be a wilderness poi? most airports around here are next to a city but definitely not IN the city. would that help with generation availability?
Click to expand...
Yes, you would make it a wilderness POI. It is better than if you tried to place it in a town, but you still have a lot of limitations with RWG that make it not a great option to try and do.

Edit:
Anyhow, we should probably either stop this discussion or move it to a separate thread. It's really off topic and taking up way too much space in this thread at this point. :)
 
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Riamus said:
Oh. Yeah, if you put stuff between 2 runways, then yeah, the rotation doesn't matter. But it would look weird to have your terminal and parking lot and stuff between runways. They don't normally have people driving down a road between two runways to reach the terminal. It creates too much risk.
Click to expand...

Never let perfect be the enemy of good enough. ;)

Oh! Hah! Underground parking and road access from north to south under the terminal buildings!

Riamus said:
Anyhow, we should probably either stop this discussion or move it to a separate thread. It's really off topic and taking up way too much space in this thread at this point. :)
Click to expand...

Totally agree. Zztong tried telling us that like 2 pages ago, though.
 
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EvilPolygons said:
Yep, if i ever get around to actually trying this with my wilderness/township method (in Mod Discussions) that's exactly how this will spawn. The game treats it as a township, but what it looks like is a big ol' wilderness POI with a road going to it.
Click to expand...
wait...would that work? could you make the airport generate as a type of town, so that all the corresponding poi tiles would "behave"?
 
HammerDano said:
wait...would that work? could you make the airport generate as a type of town, so that all the corresponding poi tiles would "behave"?
Click to expand...
Only as a 2-tile "town." If you can have more control than I thought with rwgmixer and towns, then maybe a 3-tile "town." It is more of a hack than a real option. Something you can do with a lot of limitations, but not great.
 
Riamus said:
Only as a 2-tile "town." If you can have more control than I though with rwgmixer and towns, then maybe a 3-tile "town." It is more of a hack than a real option. Something you can do with a lot of limitations, but not great.
Click to expand...
sorry...you are right, this is it's own thing. I'll stop asking questions that only cause me to have more questions... until it gets moved. I am curious why wilderness towns are only two tiles and how big those tiles are...just more questions. lol
 
Maybe a moderator can move the airport discussion to a new topic? Sorry it's gotten so big. I started a new thread that the other posts can be merged to if you want.

Riamus

Thread 'Airports'

Okay, so I'm starting this so we can discuss airports without filling up the dev diary thread. Hopefully a moderator will merge that discussion into this thread at some point.

HammerDano said:
sorry...you are right, this is it's own thing. I'll stop asking questions that only cause me to have more questions... until it gets moved. I am curious why wilderness towns are only two tiles and how big those tiles are...just more questions. lol
Click to expand...
Wilderness towns can be any size. The issue is that if a town is larger than 2 tiles, you might have corners, which would mess up the runway.

Example:

2 tiles...
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Ce jeu est devenu un feu follet ; chaque alpha est hypé, et un mois plus tard, je suis dégoûté. Je n’aime pas cette alpha 2.0, ce n’est pas le jeu que j’ai adoré. Je regrette les armes divisées en 4 qui pourraient aller jusqu’à 600. La mise à niveau des armes et des outils à travers l’utilisation me manque ; qui auraient dû être mélangés avec des livres. Je regrette de devoir toujours dépendre du commerçant et de ses missions boiteuses, d’être bloqué sur tout pour mes constructions ; L’humidité me manque. Les médaillons de la taupe, la survie est affreuse, vos tempêtes ne servent à rien. Bref, il y a trop de choses à dire. Oh oui, vos skins Barbie signés madmole, Fortnite n’est pas jaloux. Comme d’habitude, en 1 ou 2 ans pour 1 mois de jeu, je reste déçu. MERCI À JAWOODLE ou à d’autres pour cet appel sincère. Tellement déçu par le comportement de madmole, le musclé Ken. MADMOLE devrait s’occuper de son nouveau projet qui n’intéresse personne. Au revoir, je n’ai pas cru en Fun Pimps pendant longtemps ; De nombreux anciens joueurs sont dégoûtés par votre comportement.
 
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