Learn-By-Doing and My issues with Miner69er and Motherload being in the strength skill tree.

J

jadMurray

Refugee
I've been pretty unhappy with the fact that no matter what, I always have to invest in Strength for material gathering (Miner69er and Motherload).

I think a good fix would be to make these perks and other perks like it as learn-by -doing. While I get TFP doesnt want to bring that back as much, but I think making only these and say, Salvage Master as LBD would appease both sides of the playerbase.

I would settle at least ML and M69er being general perks but I think LBD would be more engaging and bring back just a bit of the okd 7D2D.

I think if they wanted to add LBD in general and keep the magazine system, the crafting level of a weapon could be determined by LBD, but to unlock the next weapon you still need to read the same amount of magazines as you currently do.

However, I think just making a few perks that everyone uses would make it more fun. The counterpoint to LBD for every weapon level would be that when you hit m60s, auto shotguns, etc. Its gonna use up a lot of weapon/tool parts and iron/steel so I understand why they may pass on this idea but I genuinely dont see making just the perks LBD.
 
Lax said:
Do you use the Forgettin' Elixir at all? Add skill points to boost skills you need early game, then later reset your skill points and reassign them.
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No I dont like too. I usually dedicate one set build for my entire playthrough. Once I get bored I create a new world and try out a new build. In experimental I had 3 worlds for Intellect, Sledgehammer (Str) and Fortitude to try out the new perks and skills. I personally feel Forgettin' just ruins a bit of the immersion for me so I don't use it. Also I have fun setting up a build brand new early game and seeing it round out.
 
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Lax said:
Do you use the Forgettin' Elixir at all? Add skill points to boost skills you need early game, then later reset your skill points and reassign them.
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No. Especially new players will have no idea what they'll need early and late as veterans do. Switching up skills depending what game stage/level you're at isn't really what "Forgettin' Elixers" are for. They can be used that way (usually by min-maxers), of course, but are actually designed so that, if you didn't really know what you were getting into/weren't happy with your build or whatever halfway through a game and wanted to spec into something else rather than start over from scratch, you could.

I understand why Miner 69er and Motherlode are in Strength and, of course, teams might specialize so everyone on the team wouldn't necessarily need to invest in it. It's such an integral part of the game, though, even solo players will likely resort to it to get enough building materials, ammo, etc. together. And especially regular ammo now that TFP have decided sufficient turret ammo must be crafted and obtained no other way. :rolleyes:
 
InfiniteWarrior said:
... but are actually designed so that, if you didn't really know what you were getting into/weren't happy with your build or whatever halfway through a game and wanted to spec into something else rather than start over from scratch, you could....
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The fact is the Elixir is used to reset your skill points so you can redistribute them however you want. Period. Doesn't matter why you want to do that.
 
トピの内容を見てみたところ、問題の本質はLBDにするかどうかではなく、採掘スキルが属性取得の有無に左右されるのは避けたいと考えているように思います。
バニラでは、戦闘に関わるスキル以外のスキルの大部分を汎用スキルとして割り当てても良いと思います。
 
I wrench down cars and trucks for all the metal I need. The only points I put into strength are pack mule and pummel Pete. I get by with quality level 6 Stone ax and shovel. Once I get enough, I scrap short iron pipe and springs and get even more metal.

The problem with learning by doing is I would open my forge and make iron bars and keep open until I maxed out whatever the skill it was. And then if I wanted to do archery, what did we do to max out archery? Shoot 200 arrows at a wall?. I forget. Learn by doing is too easily abused and people quickly figure out how to max out whichever skill they're interested in on the first few days.
 
ElCabong said:
...Learn by doing is too easily abused and people quickly figure out how to max out whichever skill they're interested in on the first few days....
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Yup. With a wrench and a workbench I could easily have a Level 6 Bow on day 1 or 2.

I think what some don't like is that you don't get experience "directly" from performing a task.

You still "Learn" by doing, the difference being any activity you do gains you the XP. Now you get to decide where you want to distribute the Skill points that you gained.

On one playthrough I laser focused all points into Handguns. Before I knew it, I was a few Skill points from having an SMG. Combined with Lucky Looter, I ended up finding an SMG in a Cop Car before I could craft one!
 
Lax said:
You still "Learn" by doing,
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Do you call a sunrise a sunrise, or should we go with the accurate "Partial Spin of the World to Reveal the Sun"? It's not rising, you know.

As in, it's got a name, it could be misinterpreted, yes - but you don't Have to ... ;)
 
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ElCabong said:
Learn by doing is too easily abused and people quickly figure out how to max out whichever skill they're interested in on the first few days.
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You could do that. You did not have to. Most of the time, I built a few of different items and moved on to something else. Then did it again later. I did not spend the night crafting hundreds of the same thing. If you abused it, that's a you thing. It needed to be tweaked, not to be thrown away.
 
theFlu said:
Do you call a sunrise a sunrise, or should we go with the accurate "Partial Spin of the World to Reveal the Sun"? It's not rising, you know.

As in, it's got a name, it could be misinterpreted, yes - but you don't Have to ... ;)
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Nice, I like this thinking!
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Jeraal said:
...I did not spend the night crafting hundreds of the same thing....
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I did.... 😉
 
ElCabong said:
I wrench down cars and trucks for all the metal I need. The only points I put into strength are pack mule and pummel Pete. I get by with quality level 6 Stone ax and shovel. Once I get enough, I scrap short iron pipe and springs and get even more metal.

The problem with learning by doing is I would open my forge and make iron bars and keep open until I maxed out whatever the skill it was. And then if I wanted to do archery, what did we do to max out archery? Shoot 200 arrows at a wall?. I forget. Learn by doing is too easily abused and people quickly figure out how to max out whichever skill they're interested in on the first few days.
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Learn by doing is easily abused? Yes because putting a few points into intelligence and looting mail boxes and trash to max out crafting skills in a few days is so much more difficult.

Learn by doing isnt as easily abused as the magazine and book system currently is.

Leveling blunt weapons or knives could take a few in game weeks or definitely getting past day 14.

Folks defending this nonsense system we have now always fall back to crafting and completely ignore how much more difficult it was to get the actual skills to do damage increased.
 
Slingblade2040 said:
Learn by doing is easily abused? Yes because putting a few points into intelligence and looting mail boxes and trash to max out crafting skills in a few days is so much more difficult.

Learn by doing isnt as easily abused as the magazine and book system currently is.

Leveling blunt weapons or knives could take a few in game weeks or definitely getting past day 14.

Folks defending this nonsense system we have now always fall back to crafting and completely ignore how much more difficult it was to get the actual skills to do damage increased.
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I don't see how putting a few points in intelligence will let you do that.
 
Lax said:
But why defend either? Both have pros and cons. Either way is still fun as long as the core gameplay isn't changed. Just my opinion. 😉
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Because one system is better. Both systems affect the core gameplay because they affect your characters growth and how fast the growth can be done. One system would be better than the other because it will balance that pace of character growth better than the other.

LBD had some safe fails. Cant craft certain quality items unless your character is a certain level and you put points into craft that crafting perk. Can't get pummel pete perk unless you used clubs to defeat enemies which ranked up the club skills which then let's you get Pummel pete.

This current system has many flaws. Its gain exp to level up, get skill point, spend skill point and done. Don't have to keep using clubs its just right into pummel pete or other said skills. You dont need to be even close to level 100 or even 70 to craft the best quality items just spam book stores.or buy magazines from Trader runs.
 
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