ZZTong-Prefabs (V2.0) V2.1-ZZ029

[zztong]

Can you estimate when the update might be released? I won't restart overnight, as I have one or two other things running at the moment. 7D2D is basically planned for "afterward."

I haven't decided and your feedback would be appreciated. I could release the update with 2.1, 2.2 ... 3.0...? My fear is including that change in 2.1 might interrupt those who have started maps with 2.0 if they don't read my warning. On the other hand, 2.1 is likely to be near enough that I won't have a bunch of new content just bug fixes and those size changes.

When would you prefer?

 

[Sixx]

I haven't decided and your feedback would be appreciated. I could release the update with 2.1, 2.2 ... 3.0...? My fear is including that change in 2.1 might interrupt those who have started maps with 2.0 if they don't read my warning. On the other hand, 2.1 is likely to be near enough that I won't have a bunch of new content just bug fixes and those size changes.

When would you prefer?

That's a decision I can't influence

I think 3.0 will take a very long time. Late 2025, or maybe even sometime in 2026. Unfortunately, you can't rely on the TFP roadmap.The 2.1 exp has been running for a few days and could maybe run for a week before the stable version arrives.

V2.2 will then depend on what was changed in 2.1 that didn't make it into 2.2, and possibly on new feedback from the community. Has a 2.2 been announced yet? We probably won't expect anything majorly new or changed to the mechanics. If we were to foresee the 2.2 stable release, maybe in 3 weeks...

I just don't know how much work it is to adapt the mod every time a TFP change is made. If V2.2 takes a while, I'd put the change into V2.1 stable. If I knew that V2.2 would be coming soon, I'd wait until then so I wouldn't have to change things all the time. V3 is so far away.

I probably won't get to 7D2D myself for another 2-3 weeks. Before that, I have other things to do and a lot to do in real life. But I'm trying to plan for mods. The last time I played A21 was with almost 100 mods—that was probably 1.5-2 years ago. Yours was one of them, and I was thrilled with the buildings. That's why I want to include it again, especially since there are so many buildings. The unmodded 7D2D has become quite boring for me. I just want to avoid unnecessary bugs in the game with such a large number of mods. I hope Urban Decay doesn't cause any problems with the prefabs.

Those are my thoughts on the matter. Maybe it will help me make a decision.

 

[EvilPolygons]

On the subject of size changes, how often are you seeing oversized wilderness POIs cut into nearby towns or other POIs? I've only seen it happen once so far, and the offending POI was one of those absolutely massive airport POIs.

I'm wondering how bad of a problem it actually is. So far it only seems to affect insanely large POIs. Makes me think that perhaps resizing POIs isn't really worth it if the placement bug rarely happens.

 

[zztong]

I just don't know how much work it is to adapt the mod every time a TFP change is made. If V2.2 takes a while, I'd put the change into V2.1 stable. If I knew that V2.2 would be coming soon, I'd wait until then so I wouldn't have to change things all the time. V3 is so far away.

I have 2/3 of the changes made. I could have the other one done in probably a day.

I'm wondering how bad of a problem it actually is. So far it only seems to affect insanely large POIs. Makes me think that perhaps resizing POIs isn't really worth it if the placement bug rarely happens.

I've seen it in my playtest world, once. My interest in the changes is long-term maintenance on my part. The closer I stick to TFP patterns the less work I end up with overall.

The change that remains ... making the Village a Tile would likely influence future content that I make this year. Based on what I learn, I might try to make content for a small township.

 

[EvilPolygons]

My interest in the changes is long-term maintenance on my part. The closer I stick to TFP patterns the less work I end up with overall.

Makes sense. Plus, I think you've always advertised your mod as being vanilla RWG-friendly.

The change that remains ... making the Village a Tile would likely influence future content that I make this year. Based on what I learn, I might try to make content for a small township.

I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with. Tiles were a fantastic addition to the game, IMO, but the biggest weakness of the tile system is the limited number of tiles. As the number and diversity of tiles grow, the better the tile system becomes. IDIC.

 

[zztong]

I don't know what I was thinking. I can make the next update backward compatible. The old versions of motocross and the ranch will have the old filenames but I'll remove that tags that get them placed by RWG. The new versions of those files will have a slightly different filename and be tagged for RWG. This way existing maps will find the old POIs but new maps will use the new ones. Then I can clean out the old files at some later date, like for 2.9 or 3.0.

 

[zztong]

zztong updated ZZTong-Prefabs (V2.0) with a new update entry:

V2.1-ZZ029

* Adjusted wilderness road exits and some quest marker locations.
* Turned off AllowTopSoilDecorations for the Hunter's Trap decorations.
* Added rwg_tile_industrial_t_zztong_01 to support more 100x100 POIs.
* Small change: zztong_apartments_02
* Small change: zztong_sheriff_01
* Small change: zztong_strip_mall_02
* Small change: zztong_tfp_ranger_station_01
* Small change: zztong_tfp_army_barracks_01
* Small change: zztong_tfp_house_new_04
* Small change: rwg_tile_rural_corner_06
* New...

Read the rest of this update entry...

 

[EvilPolygons]

@zztong

Well, after generating many more test maps, it seems I really downplayed the problem caused by oversized wilderness POIs.

Basically any wilderness POI over 150 blocks stands a good chance of overlapping other wilderness tiles or even town tiles. Sometimes it's not such a big deal but often these POI/tile collisions make a real mess. Especially on smaller 4k maps!

Sad to say that this will basically force the retirement of some really good POIs. Some can be modified fairly easily, but others simply can't be squished down under 150x150 without being completely mangled beyond recognition.

So yeah, I guess you made the right call.

 

[zztong]

Sad to say that this will basically force the retirement of some really good POIs. Some can be modified fairly easily, but others simply can't be squished down under 150x150 without being completely mangled beyond recognition.

It sounds like you're dealing with POIs other than mine. You should talk to @stallionsden as he's got plans for larger POIs.

I didn't have anything greater than 150x150 as I suspected the max POI size would match the Tile size. That bet didn't pay off, but I wasn't so deeply invested in it that I couldn't pivot.

So yeah, I guess you made the right call.

Well, I made a safe call in that mirroring TFP means I only eat the same pain they choose to eat. I have the luxury of being willing to hack on my own POIs, where as the CompoPack team tries to protect the original vision of the POI's creator, which can be quite the challenge. I mean, I have mad respect for the CP's perspective and goal to honor those creators, but technically it can be quite the puzzle.

 

[EvilPolygons]

It sounds like you're dealing with POIs other than mine. You should talk to @stallionsden as he's got plans for larger POIs.

I didn't have anything greater than 150x150 as I suspected the max POI size would match the Tile size. That bet didn't pay off, but I wasn't so deeply invested in it that I couldn't pivot.



Well, I made a safe call in that mirroring TFP means I only eat the same pain they choose to eat. I have the luxury of being willing to hack on my own POIs, where as the CompoPack team tries to protect the original vision of the POI's creator, which can be quite the challenge. I mean, I have mad respect for the CP's perspective and goal to honor those creators, but technically it can be quite the puzzle.

Yep, the retirement remark was concerning old POIs like Hernan's mall, Zyncosa's airport, and several others. So far, I've finished size adjustments on Fizzlewitz's Vault 11 and Viper 7's Private Airstrip (just for my own use, as I don't have permission to redistribute). Vault 11 was easy, but Viper 7's Private Airstrip took several hours and was only doable because there was quite a bit of unused space in the original -- enough to get all the features and buildings into a 150x150 footprint.

But there are plenty of megasized POIs that don't have any unused space at all. So I'm not sure what Stallionsden can even do about some of the more extreme (250+ block) POIs, other than retire them from the CP.