Are you guys over at the game studio okay?

[Dark Sun]

Of course, that doesn't apply universally and the pink and blue thing actually began as a marketing ploy for baby products.

Few of us realize how all but thoroughly conditioned we are by the societies we live in.

Fair, but if you believe in the theory of evolution, to our understanding of how our ancient ancestors 10,000 years ago scraped out an existence in the frozen wastes of the last great ice age, women were the gatherers and caretakers, while the men hunted game, ranging from small rabbits to woolly mammoths. We have barely evolved in all that time, so to still see this in practice (in a more 'modern' equivalent) doesn't really surprise me. If this isn't biology and instead societal conditioning, then this play has been going on for a long, long, long time.

Edit: In any case, men are the primary demographic of 7D2D because it's a PC game (a market they dominate) and because it's a survival/violent game (a medium they dominate, as well). That's the brass tax of the situation.

 

[EvilPolygons]

God, this reminds me of people claiming that horror as a whole needs to be scrutinized, debated, and fundamentally altered because it makes some people feel uncomfortable. That's the entire point of horror. It's supposed to make you feel uncomfortable.

That's certainly true of certain types of horror, those that lean more towards the artsy side of the genre. Cronenberg's films, for example. Or even the cosmic horror writers, going all the way back to Lovecraft.

But sometimes horror is just meant as simple entertainment, like Evil Dead II or Slither. Basically slapstick with lots of fake blood and guts.

 

[Kyoji]

If you decide to quote statistics -- which you're not, but rather are parroting political propaganda, perhaps to try and get a rise out of someone -- you probably want to check the statistics first.

"The gender split of male and female players remains at about half-and-half – 53% of video game players identify as male, 46% identify as female and approximately 1% selected non-binary or preferred not to identify for the survey." -- Women in Games

I get some people "don't like politics" in their games, but notice those same people seem to adore Fallout without having the slightest grasp of the politics in it. I've no respect for how politics are practiced today myself. Very few in history have understood what the issue with late modernity actually is at any rate. And, sorry to the bearer of bad tidings, but it's not going to be legislated away. It's a crisis of consciousness.

I gave you a pretty accurate account on why there are attractive male and female characters in games and why historically they have existed. If you look at the data you would see men over representing in games earlier and only recently has it come to such statistics. Plus gaming and gamers are different as mentioned by Pew

1. Who plays video games and identifies as a “gamer”

Half of men and a comparable number of women say they ever play video games on a computer, TV, game console, or portable device like a cellphone. However,

www.pewresearch.org

The idea that men would want to look at attractive women in games shouldn't be a shocking surprise.

I feel like you are over thinking this with the mentality of trying to put that new college degree to work. Between this and your previous comments listed below.

I gather the game used to be much more on the, shall we say, raunchy side and every time party girl falls down I'm thinking, "Yeah, that's more than we need to see, dear." I got flashbacks when I first played it to a time when games were more about "boys and their toys" than a going concern. That's no doubt where I come by the impression that 7DTD is "old school" and countrified. As theFlu said, though, "it's the society it is based on" that's sick. As a woman, I know human trafficking and sex trafficking and all other varieties of pathologies are still plaguing us and, as strip clubs exist in real life, I don't bat an eye to come across "Big Buns" or some other "gentlemen's club" or what have you. Those used to be mainstays in video games due to that immature "boys and their toys" kind of mentality.

I don't concern myself much with the objectification of women in particular in video games or otherwise because we've all been objectified by the society we live in due to the Newtonian-Cartesian paradigm I've mentioned before. We're essentially being compared to atoms when we're spoken of as "the masses" and atoms as billiard balls bouncing against one another analogy itself has yet to be completely routed from the field of astrophysics despite the advent of quantum physics. The "social sciences," which used to be called social studies, took their cues from the "hard sciences" as authors such as Eugen Rosenstock-Huessy woefully lamented and, in their zeal to be thought of as "pure sciences," have become just as objectifying of the world, psychology for example examining the supposed "contents" of a mind.

We're only now beginning to see ourselves and to be seen as the human beings and intricately interconnected life forms otherwise we actually are. Indigenous wisdom is in the lead on this front in philosophical circles concerned with a burgeoning "ecological (human) consciousness."

We went from talking about types of graphical violence, horror and sexuality to learning that we are now only understanding that we are human beings and interconnected life forms. I mean not to be a dick but seriously?

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

to our understanding of how our ancient ancestors

Which is constantly changing. We might want to consult anthropologists on that subject peirodically.

men are the primary demographic of 7D2D because it's a PC game (a market they dominate) and because it's a survival/violent game (a medium they dominate, as well). That's the brass tax of the situation.

If you believe so. I'll not argue with anyone about it. It makes no difference, afic, but rather the predilections of the individual that makes a difference.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

I feel like you are over thinking this with the mentality of trying to put that new college degree to work.

There you go again. Trying to get a rise, maybe? I don't have a college degree and majored in English eons ago, which is why folks like Blake and Goethe are far more accessible to me than Gebser. In fact, I'm pointing to "the space between our thoughts," as the Buddhists put it -- a space beyond thinking. Few ever stop thinking long enough to look more deeply, though. As Stephen Covey put it, "Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply."

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@AwesomeSauce69420 So i should register over on reddit because i like gore? Weird logic.

It´s a zombie game, a horror game. Wrong genre for people that don´t like gore. Splatter movies basically never make sense so the target audience for gore is ok with it. Dear TFP leave the crawler as it is please.

 

[Dark Sun]

Which is constantly changing. We might want to consult anthropologists on that subject peirodically.


If you believe so. I'll not argue with anyone about it. It makes no difference, afic, but rather the predilections of the individual that makes a difference.

Let's just all agree that this is a colossal waste of our time on this Earth.

 

[Rotor]

Let's just all agree that this is a colossal waste of our time on this Earth.

The game or the discussion?

 

[AwesomeSauce69420]

@AwesomeSauce69420 So i should register over on reddit because i like gore? Weird logic.

It´s a zombie game, a horror game. Wrong genre for people that don´t like gore. Splatter movies basically never make sense so the target audience for gore is ok with it. Dear TFP leave the crawler as it is please.

Okay, I really have to stop participating in this discussion, I absolutely do not want to have to keep talking about this, but I suppose you aren't in the know.
There are certain, circles, shall we say, of weirdos on Reddit. For example, there's a community called r/fiftyfifty which the platform's stupid algorithm tried to recommend me when I used it. In r/fiftyfifty, people post things with a 50/50 chance of them being perfectly normal vs real photos of gore. They do this for fun. This is what people who particularly like gore itself do in their free-time rather than receive therapy, apparently.

 

[Dark Sun]

The game or the discussion?

*Checks Steam hours*

Why not both?

Post automatically merged: Tuesday at 4:50 PM

Okay, I really have to stop participating in this discussion, I absolutely do not want to have to keep talking about this, but I suppose you aren't in the know.
There are certain, circles, shall we say, of weirdos on Reddit. For example, there's a community called r/fiftyfifty which the platform's stupid algorithm tried to recommend me when I used it. In r/fiftyfifty, people post things with a 50/50 chance of them being perfectly normal vs real photos of gore. They do this for fun. This is what people who particularly like gore itself do in their free-time rather than receive therapy, apparently.

I assume you misspoke and you meant to say that all of those on Reddit are weirdos.

 

[EvilPolygons]

Okay, I really have to stop participating in this discussion, I absolutely do not want to have to keep talking about this, but I suppose you aren't in the know.
There are certain, circles, shall we say, of weirdos on Reddit. For example, there's a community called r/fiftyfifty which the platform's stupid algorithm tried to recommend me when I used it. In r/fiftyfifty, people post things with a 50/50 chance of them being perfectly normal vs real photos of gore. They do this for fun. This is what people who particularly like gore itself do in their free-time rather than receive therapy, apparently.

Methinks the lady doth protest too much.

 

[theFlu]

all of those on Reddit are weirdos.

Once the weirdos took over the moderation, who else would be left ...?

 

[Dark Sun]

Once the weirdos took over the moderation, who else would be left ...?

I assumed Reddit was self-governing?

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Okay, I really have to stop participating in this discussion, I absolutely do not want to have to keep talking about this, but I suppose you aren't in the know.
There are certain, circles, shall we say, of weirdos on Reddit. For example, there's a community called r/fiftyfifty which the platform's stupid algorithm tried to recommend me when I used it. In r/fiftyfifty, people post things with a 50/50 chance of them being perfectly normal vs real photos of gore. They do this for fun. This is what people who particularly like gore itself do in their free-time rather than receive therapy, apparently.

And now you are suggesting that i need therapy? Dude. You are in a forum for a horror game, the devs themselves like gore. And no that´s not what i do in my free time.

I rather think that people who are preaching that gore is bad and that suggest that those who like it are mentally unstable should go in therapy themselves. Someone needs to teach them that people have different taste and that liking gore doesn´t mean mentally unstable.

Some people...

 

[Kyoji]

Just remember folks. One day you may wake up and find everything sanitized.

No more attractive women because that's objectification.

No more gore because it scares people or makes them uncomfortable.

No more action because it promotes unhealthy habits.

You can have you opinion on gore and attractiveness or sexualization in games but I will be there to fend off such attacks. A stalwart defender of justice.

 

[Krougal]

Just remember folks. One day you may wake up and find everything sanitized.

No more attractive women because that's objectification.

No more gore because it scares people or makes them uncomfortable.

No more action because it promotes unhealthy habits.

You can have you opinion on gore and attractiveness or sexualization in games but I will be there to fend off such attacks. A stalwart defender of justice.

Well said!
Although I gotta admit I agree with OP on the one point; I don't like the crawlers either.
On the list of things I don't like in this game, it is not a big one. I like the spiders even less.
Speaking of objectification, that Trader Sonia mod is awesome, good riddance to Rekt, and didn't even have to break the game to do it.

 

[InfiniteWarrior]

We went from talking about types of graphical violence, horror and sexuality

You're the one who brought up Veilguard...for obvious reasons. If you never had that youthful ephiphany, I don't imagine you would be interested in those who put their fingers on what's really troubling the world. Others might.

 

[Kyoji]

You're the one who brought up Veilguard...for obvious reasons. If you never had that youthful ephiphany, I don't imagine you would be interested in those who put their fingers on what's really troubling the world. Others might.

I am not interested in solving the world's problems with 7D2D. I am interested in making the game appealing for me and, hopefully, by proxy others.

The pushback you have seen in the thread, at least from me, is because I am tired of people trying to police what others like and enjoy by trying to equate an attractive women in a video game to exploitation or objectification and thereby prey upon one's emotions and desire to be a good person to remove or alter it.

It's a false dichotomy that I dislike. There are a variety of reasons to enjoy attractive male and female characters without it being associated with exploitation or objectification.

I'll leave it at that as I feel like I have said my piece of the matter and it doesn't seem like clarification is needed just a difference of opinion.

 

[Dark Sun]

I am not interested in solving the world's problems with 7D2D. I am interested in making the game appealing for me and, hopefully, by proxy others.

The pushback you have seen in the thread, at least from me, is because I am tired of people trying to police what others like and enjoy by trying to equate an attractive women in a video game to exploitation or objectification and thereby prey upon one's emotions and desire to be a good person to remove or alter it.

It's a false dichotomy that I dislike. There are a variety of reasons to enjoy attractive male and female characters without it being associated with exploitation or objectification.

I'll leave it at that as I feel like I have said my piece of the matter and it doesn't seem like clarification is needed just a difference of opinion.

Mmhmm. I'm going to be frank, I can't take the objectification argument seriously. I'm sure there's some merit to it, but it's largely been tainted by keyboard warriors. It honestly reeks of puritan political activism, something you'd find on Tumblr by the same folks who would demand that at the start of the game there is a massive list of *trigger warnings you have to read through. (It's not just the left, either. The right, particularly the religious, have a long and muddied history of this, as well.)

(*I'm going to be frank, if a doberman traumatizes you to the point you have a meltdown, you need therapy. This is a whole different situation than getting the heebie jeebies around spiders, and the devs providing an option to disable them.)

Let artists put whatever they want in their game, so long as it isn't illegal, such as CP, beastiality, incest, calling to violence against a particular individual or group, et cetera. If you don't like the aesthetic choice of a particular character, some writing on a poster in-game, so forth, don't purchase the game, or mod it out after the fact. Personally, do I prefer Jen's older model? Yes, purely for immersive reasons (the older outfit was far more believable what any medical professional would wear), and because I find the current design with her "assets" rather juvenile, but it's not something that bothers me to where I have to post about it in its own separate thread. I just roll my eyes and move on. I find Rekt more offensive, in that he is objectively as immature (writing wise) and infinitely more annoying than Jen. In fact, other than Jen and Bob, I don't like any of the traders.

 

[EvilPolygons]

Mmhmm. I'm going to be frank, I can't take the objectification argument seriously. I'm sure there's some merit to it, but it's largely been tainted by keyboard warriors. It honestly reeks of puritan political activism, something you'd find on Tumblr by the same folks who would demand that at the start of the game there is a massive list of *trigger warnings you have to read through. (It's not just the left, either. The right, particularly the religious, have a long and muddied history of this, as well.)

(*I'm going to be frank, if a doberman traumatizes you to the point you have a meltdown, you need therapy. This is a whole different situation than getting the heebie jeebies around spiders, and the devs providing an option to disable them.)

Let artists put whatever they want in their game, so long as it isn't illegal, such as CP, beastiality, incest, calling to violence against a particular individual or group, et cetera. If you don't like the aesthetic choice of a particular character, some writing on a poster in-game, so forth, don't purchase the game, or mod it out after the fact. Personally, do I prefer Jen's older model? Yes, purely for immersive reasons (the older outfit was far more believable what any medical professional would wear), and because I find the current design with her "assets" rather juvenile, but it's not something that bothers me to where I have to post about it in its own separate thread. I just roll my eyes and move on. I find Rekt more offensive, in that he is objectively as immature (writing wise) and infinitely more annoying than Jen. In fact, other than Jen and Bob, I don't like any of the traders.

Maybe it's a generational thing, or maybe I'm just wired this way, but I simply cannot get hot and bothered over video game characters or cartoons. So I always find objectification and sexualization arguments regarding games completely ridiculous and eye roll-inducing.

The reason I like Jen is because her various quips and voice acting reminds me of Elvira. I grew up watching Movie Macabre in the early 80's and have been a huge fan of the Elvira character since I was a kid. All Jen's missing is the wig and black dress.

I absolutely hate Rekt. Seriously. **** that guy.