Riamus
Hunter
I believe they said they did this, though not to be perfectly equal... just to increase the loot cap as you gain badges. I haven't tested it, though.
So far 2.0 is bad
- Thread starter Slingblade2040
- Start date
They did. I am asking for it to be even across the board once you get the badge. Here is what it currently is
Riamus
Hunter
I could see making it equal after getting the wasteland badge. I'm not too concerned about that for my own games since I am still thinking I'll disabled biome hazards (and storms) after I finish testing them since I don't like gating. But for everyone else, removing all loot caps after completing the wasteland badge makes sense.
I am also extremely enjoying myself , most fun I’ve had on 7 days in my 1500 hours since alpha 14While I think there are some mechanics that could get some love and improvements (like everything else in life), I am having quite fun with the 2.0 actually.
So for me it is far from "bad", just needs some refinement in some new mechanics that, for being new, are maybe not fully fleshed out, but still interesting and introducing innovations.
Just my opinion, please feel free to disagree, different people, different tastes
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Agreed
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7 days has felt far to easy for far to long , I have camped pine forest to max level way to many times , this may not be perfected but it is refreshing after things were getting stale
2.0 is unfortunately a bad update. You have much less freedom now (in a sandbox game).
Instead of making the game more difficult, they make it more annoying.
The new zombies aren't dangerous, they're just annoying.
The books for the Sledge Hammer are way too powerful.
The biome restrictions are completely stupid and illogical.
With all due respect, what the developers have delivered here is very weak.
Instead of making the game more difficult, they make it more annoying.
The new zombies aren't dangerous, they're just annoying.
The books for the Sledge Hammer are way too powerful.
The biome restrictions are completely stupid and illogical.
With all due respect, what the developers have delivered here is very weak.
pApA^LeGBa
Hunter
I still don´t understand why the sledgehammer needed a book. It was already the strongest melee weapon. Who the F buffs the strongest weapon in a game? And yes i know it eats a lot of stamina very early in game.
But look at the baton during very early game. It sucks, it doesn´t take as much stamina but the damage is very low you actually need more stamina to kill a Z than with a stone sledge on day one i guess. It will get a lot better once you get turrets than it´s acutally OP af. But the sledge is also OP later in game not as much as a good INT build, but still enough that it doesn´t need a book series.
The pipe baton is so bad that even if i aim for an INT build i use the wooden club without skillins early game because it´s better than a pipe baton with 1 skill point spent.
But look at the baton during very early game. It sucks, it doesn´t take as much stamina but the damage is very low you actually need more stamina to kill a Z than with a stone sledge on day one i guess. It will get a lot better once you get turrets than it´s acutally OP af. But the sledge is also OP later in game not as much as a good INT build, but still enough that it doesn´t need a book series.
The pipe baton is so bad that even if i aim for an INT build i use the wooden club without skillins early game because it´s better than a pipe baton with 1 skill point spent.
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theFlu
Hunter
When was the last time you checked? I think the pipe baton was released as weaker-than-the-wooden-club, but it got buffed to be identical in a later patch.
I would disagree. The increased loot stage is the reward for going into a more dangerous terrain. The risk/reward balance has to be there.
If you want to stay in the forest and still unlock biomes you could simply turn off the biome system after you unlocked all biomes. AFAIK this removes the loot caps as well, doesn't it?
pApA^LeGBa
Hunter
Ah well, i honestly don´t know, i must have missed that patch note and kept starting with the wooden club.
Anyways, the sledge still already was the strongest melee weapon and really doesn´t need a book series. If the sledge needs a book series, everything else that has none also needs one.
Forget about the baton. Who buffs the strongest weapon in the game? That´s still really weird and makes no sense at all. I highly doubt that this is for new players, i could at least get behind that thought process even when it´s way too late for that.
Can´t imagine that there will be a huge sales spike that would justify making it easer for newbies after they already left early access last year. Would be a different story if the game was still 20$ but even then i doubt that sales would have increased a lot to justify making it easier for newbies after nearly 12 years.
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The terrain isn't more dangerous unless you are saying a storm you have to hide every x minutes is dangerous. Once you get the badge they are all the same and I am saying this should only take effect post-badge.
The only thing that would dictate spawns is loot stage outside of two variants we have as far as I can tell and the max number of spawns increasing by 1 in Desert and up
Also, no one said to stay in the forest. I said once you get the Wasteland badge your loot stage in every other biome should match. You put in the time to advance the way TFP want now let the player enjoy. Plus if they listen and rework the system to be more meaningful then it would be a proper challenge and not something everyone is turning off because of how silly it is.
I disagree vehemently with the direction of taking the game from a sandbox open world to a classical RPG with effectively staged zones where 1-20 can play, then 21-30, 31-42 and 43-50. This might be slightly hyperbolic but at the end of the day I don't think end-game should be played in the Wasteland every time.
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theFlu
Hunter
Ye, was just pointing it out in case you want to start with it in the future
It's all a matter of "we want everything to be equal", I was surprised that there weren't nerfs to the base weapons to go along with the book series. I haven't even checked thou, there might've been. But I _think_ that's the main reason, "every weapon needs to have a book set". Then again, pistols get two, batons get a half, and none of them make any sense.
As far as the thread goes, I just earned my first biome badge. Had the quest limiter set to two per day, so I spent then night between d5-6 outside Jen's church mining nitrate, with my Q1 stone axe, just to tick the box. All I needed the "craft a smoothie" for was to wait out the "spend time in biome" -timer, while looting the church. Riveting gameplay.
Editing to add the next turn of events:
Ok, this might be mildly more interesting. Did a quest, faffed about, turned the quest in at 19:24 at Jen's. Of course a storm rolled in. And Jen "happens" to be in the middle of nowhere. So, options...
- wait and hope the storm clears in time for getting TP'd out. Quite risky, and I ain't got nothing to do here.
- Build a box outside to shelter in past 2200. Building in 15 sec increments sounds fun... but I guess I'll have to.
- Start building a chain of boxes between the next town and Jen .. oooh boi. Those 3x3 shapes should come in handy, if they're still in the game.
Upside, it did manage to "dynamically screw me over". Downside, the kind doc is tossing me out to die to the elements. Downside, there's nothing to predict this turn of events, so, I guess we're meant to build shacks at traders, or only visit them in the mornings now. Upside, getting familiar with quick building, and shelter mechanics ...
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pApA^LeGBa
Hunter
Yeah the badges are just weird. This would be such a great chance to have bosses in the game. One for every biome. I mean they exactly know that this is sub optimal, why else would they make this optional.
I also really hope that the flies won´t stay. I mean they can be handled. But i have no interest at all living in the desert or questing, looting there. Way too annoying, i will rather insta move on and get the snow one. Which sums up the update. The new stuff is mainly annoying so far.
Like not equipping armor automatically after repairing. I was actually hoping for a update where we can repair it from the inventory slot. But nope, another small annoyance.
I also really hope that the flies won´t stay. I mean they can be handled. But i have no interest at all living in the desert or questing, looting there. Way too annoying, i will rather insta move on and get the snow one. Which sums up the update. The new stuff is mainly annoying so far.
Like not equipping armor automatically after repairing. I was actually hoping for a update where we can repair it from the inventory slot. But nope, another small annoyance.
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At least in previous alphas the higher biomes were more dangerous, more bears, more glowies even early on. Especially in the cities and in POIs. I would expect this to not have changed. Yes, the wilderness is a joke if you have a bike, but it also is relatively free of valuable loot. You need to enter POIs to get at the loot and also get into some form of danger.
I named forest as example, because it is probably the most beautiful for most people. I don't like the badges through achievements system as well, I surely hope that gets refined somewhat. But I won't turn it off just because it is too simple. Turned off it would be even simpler, so what would be the gain?
Why should people try to open doors to other areas if there isn't anything there? This is the least the system has to do, to get a proper carrot before my nose. And yes, better loot is exactly the carrot that most players of 7D2D will follow. Just like you, but you want an extra carrot with a yellow ribbon because you don't like blue ribbons
Use creative mode if you want a real sandbox, the game itself was always a mix of genres. Or turn off the biome system, that setting seems like it is there just for you
. If they hadn't implemented the staged zones I am pretty sure the end-game (aka the bandit hideout of the Duke) would still have been in the wasteland.The idea isn't to use creative mode and everyone should know that. It minimizes the issue. I have been here long enough to know what the game started as and what it has become. I am not against the shift from sandbox to rpg as a talking point but if the development of an rpg system is worse than the sandbox counterpart I will suggest alternatives or point it out.At least in previous alphas the higher biomes were more dangerous, more bears, more glowies even early on. Especially in the cities and in POIs. I would expect this to not have changed. Yes, the wilderness is a joke if you have a bike, but it also is relatively free of valuable loot. You need to enter POIs to get at the loot and also get into some form of danger.
I named forest as example, because it is probably the most beautiful for most people. I don't like the badges through achievements system as well, I surely hope that gets refined somewhat. But I won't turn it off just because it is too simple. Turned off it would be even simpler, so what would be the gain?
Why should people try to open doors to other areas if there isn't anything there? This is the least the system has to do, to get a proper carrot before my nose. And yes, better loot is exactly the carrot that most players of 7D2D will follow. Just like you, but you want an extra carrot with a yellow ribbon because you don't like blue ribbons
Use creative mode if you want a real sandbox, the game itself was always a mix of genres. Or turn off the biome system, that setting seems like it is there just for you
As far as I can see in the spawning.xml there doesn't seem to be an increased chance for anything in particular. I could be missing it somewhere but I think the extra spawns was a product of the loot stage increase.
I agree with you on the fact that there should be a reason to visit the wasteland. I just disagree that your endgame should always be the wasteland. Each biome should offer something to the player and not just for an hour of gameplay.
I feel if the developers added something more unique than ore into each biome then going through with loot stage matching wouldn't be an issue and people wouldn't just always have a base in the wasteland every playthrough.
Anyway just my two cents. I feel like we agree that biomes should offer a reason to go into I just prefer something that doesn't relegate me into always sticking with the wasteland biomes every game for my end game loot and visiting it to complete a chain quest for the Duke is a separate issue as it's not about avoiding the wasteland it's about making every other biome also viable outside the first 5 hours of the game.
Creative mode (used sparringly and with self-inflicted rules) is a way to remove elements from the game someone can't live with. I am not advocating getting everything from there, except if someone really wants a real sandbox. Your statement that you can't stand the look of wasteland is a very subjective feeling, I don't think a developer should follow such sentiments unless most players feel the same. It means you would have to do any correction yourself.
I think spawns come from your general gamestage + biome bonus + POI bonus. Also the most dangerous POIs will be mostly in higher biomes. In the first experimental the biome bonus was missing, but added in one of the patches. Everything AFAIR.
You have any specific ideas? Make a suggestion.
I was very happy to hear they made ores biome-specific again. Apart from that there are plants you can get only in specific biomes, but lets face it, you can simply go in, collect a few and be done with it for a while, it is not a reason to stay there for some time. Except for mining I don't see any easy way to make the player want to spent lots of time in every biome except for progression, which is the thing you want removed.
I usually build one main-base and at least one sub-base in each biome. But whether I just keep my main-base in forest or put it anywhere else is my free choice. Same goes for the horde base, if I like a design I'll stay with it until the end no matter where it is. But in the horde base you are just one dark night every 7 days, it isn't really important where it is or how the scenery looks like.
One point here is that the "easier" biomes are also there as a choice for players if they feel that the wasteland is too hard right now. If every biome is suddenly the same difficulty there is no way to go back into a safer zone.
What I could live with would be a system like in previous alphas where the gamestage/lootstage was always trailing behind in lower biomes so that you would just be delayed in those biomes.
You say 5 hours. Does that mean you progress to the wasteland in just 5 days?
theFlu
Hunter
Is this actually a storm trigger of some sort? I just triggered another by entering the trader compound... tried out my box network, seems to work all right; never thought I'd have a use for it, but here we are. Also tried out eating a medkit, that'll keep you ticking up just as fast as down.
understand we can turn off biome progression which I’d like to do.
But…I love the idea of the storms …if we turn off biome progression will we lose the storms as well???
Thank you
100% agree that the developers shouldn't base decisions on subjective feelings. Me saying I didn't like the wasteland isn't the rationale behind my statements. So if I worded that poorly let me take a step back and apologize for that.
My critique is that every end game would effectively push you to the wasteland forever. Every game would end you up in the Wasteland and lowers the replayability. It is the antithesis of a sandbox. Now the issue is how to go about that.
Indeed that is of the most recent patches but the only POI changes as far as danger goes is whether they are positioned in a city, large city, wasteland city. Those are the three main types of city spawners in the game xmls. So you could just as easily find a T5 POI in the forest as you could in the snow biome as an example.
While writing this segment I found that at the end of the day the developers created a progression system without thinking about the rest of the game. Currently they removed a large portion of the open world aspect for not a lot of gain. If you enjoyed going to the Wasteland or Snow biome you could still do that in the old version. The forced progression doesn't really add much to the game that you couldn't just do without it by assigning your own guiderails.
As far as making each biome viable I think that will have to be scrapped without major investment from the developers. With each biome being quite far from each other and how city generation is handled one would have to shrink the map a bit to make each biome viable to visit frequently. The ore nodes would help in this endeavor if the resources they represented were not so readily available elsewhere, but again with distance/time constraints I don't think that is a good idea either at this point. I wish I had more ideas, but the distance between areas is a major inhibiting factor so even trying to think of a possible solution I have to backpedal my current stance. I think map generation would have to be addressed to make significant strides in this regard or people would have to just be accustomed to traveling an entire day into a new zone and spending the night there before returning.
Also I don't want progression removed. If I did I could simply disable it. I am simply suggesting ways to make it more tenable. Currently whether on the forums or on youtube there are only a handful that actually think this iteration of gameplay is good. Most think it could use some tweaks to be better and a minority think that the whole thing is terrible. I fall into the middle camp where I think it could be a good system but with some tweaks that do not inhibit the open world spirit of the game we were sold on.
Without making each biome offer something the only things I can think of to make the progression system better would be slightly lowering the loot stage disparity between each zone such that there isn't an overwhelming gap between them but significant enough to encourage exploration in such zones.
Second, I think they should have the other biomes loot stages rise as the game progresses and is not capped. You can have a gap between the zones as you suggested.
Third, I would change the smoothie concept into something based more in reality.
Fourth, I would change progression from it's current state into one that is built within the quests. Think of it like having a quest that has you go find a part that would be needed to complete an item that would allow you to breathe in the burnt forest for good. The burnt forest would maybe be like a 2 part quest, the desert a 3 part quest, etc and so forth. This would make the stay in each biome more impactful and it would tie in with the current questing system we have.
Fifth, you should have alternative methods of living in the biomes but in a much more difficult state. Remove damage over time from each biome, with perhaps the Wasteland being an exception. Living in the desert would make you more thirsty and the snow biome more hungry and with hot and cold days you could perhaps have negative maladies associated with venturing out in the elements with a percent chance of a negative externality happening every x minutes without proper gear (badge). The burnt forest could lower visibility at range by a good amount and make wandering there dangerous as you can't see very well. Being the first zone after the forest you may not need anything else there to inhibit you. The Wasteland would require iodine tablets that you can find in the world that would give you x minutes of protection each. Being a resource you would have to gather it is not ideal to keep using them as you would have to resupply frequently. Without the tablets you would take radiation damage that would get progressively worse over time. At first perhaps you would have lowered stamina and max health, followed by radiation poisoning which mandates a vomit animation that could happen in the middle of a fight potentially ending in your death and then after x hours you would slowly take damage over time. These are just some rough ideas but the general concept is that each zone can be accessed but at a cost. This allows players the freedom to venture how they wish but with manageable repercussions attached to make it more difficult.
That is a good point, but is also contingent on the other zones actually being more difficult outside of the biome itself getting an extra skull which could still be the differentiating factor in either scenario. Outside of the wasteland getting "Wasteland_City" in the xml and the skull variance I don't see anything specific to that biome.
I think a trailing system would be fine assuming eventually you would get the sweet spot of 245 loot stage I think it was for the cutoff of T2.
RipClaw
Hunter
I wouldn't say that. I'm almost in the endgame, and I've only spent enough time in the Wasteland to complete the challenge. I don't care about the rest. I still live in the forest biome, and I don't need better loot since I craft most of my gear. Even if I cared about the loot bonus. The snow biome is just around the corner from where I live, and it has almost the same loot bonus. Once you have the Wasteland Badge, the loot stage limit is lifted.
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