Perks that should be General. A rant and a hill ill die on

Adam the Waster

Adam the Waster

Hunter
meganoth said:
Stop right there. You invent "awesome perks" that TFP will summon out of their magic hat to make your great new world sooo much better than the current game. If that was so easy, why didn't TFP add those "fun" perks long ago and replaced underachieving perks with them like the one that gives more meat from animals?
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Gathering is something everyone needs to do. Same for travel and work stations

Everyone needs it to have a good play through unless it gets bogged down.

The strength mastery and perception mastery are perks that could have been some book series like for mining and scraping respectively

But if it were up to me. Miner69er, advance engineering, and grease monkey are top needed for a long playthrough. All 3 of these perks are gated behind other Perk trees.

Even if they added weaker versions that are nice to have but give the same or weaker effect would be nice so the agility player can still mine without it talking so long. A simple block damage buff.

The Perk trees should be for weapons, power and abiltys while general should be main essentials

Miner69er
Salvage operations
Advance engineer
Grease monkey

Even Motherload, and Junk miner should 100% be general
All needed for a good playthrough. You don't wanna take them? Fine you don't have too plus they will cost more per level anyways

While others like Hunter (meat harvest), are nice to have and should be on it as well if farming is one then hunting should too

Perception, strength and intelligent have very odd mastery perks as well.

Strength gives you little mining buffs and tools weapon buffs (that rarely anyone uses unless your bored)

Perception gives you scraping buffs (nice to have but should be a book series)

Intellect is just random. Most are great but no buffs to robots? Just stun Batons? And why have a Perk that contradict another. 2 hit stun then aways stun? Well the second one was worthless then.


That's my rant about perks! Your thoughts and please add on
 
Adam the Waster said:
All needed for a good playthrough.
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Umm; disagree, but mainly with the "absolute" of "need". You don't Need any of that for any kind of a playthrough; in fact I practically never take Adv.Engi or Grease monkey, not one point. Salvage ops I elixir into if I need to harvest some steel for a high tier weapon, only Miner is a staple for me.

With mining getting essentially quadrupled (even more, quintupled?) in STR, I'd fully support (and kinda expected) moving one of the perks into generals; probably motherlode. Miner fits under STR better.

And the INT mastery baton thingy only looks weird when phrased like it is; a lot of skills are "+x %", the baton perk is essentially "charges 50% faster" => "charges 100% faster". Absolutely worth a two points, I have no issue with the mechanic.
 
"Always stun" ist the upgrade to "2 hit stun". Just like a weapon perk gives 5% more damage and the next higher one gives 10% more damage.

Did you copy that objection from khalgars post?
 
meganoth said:
"Always stun" ist the upgrade to "2 hit stun". Just like a weapon perk gives 5% more damage and the next higher one gives 10% more damage.

Did you copy that objection from khalgars post?
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Na just a though of mine it's fine for a simple Perk but not a mastery perk
 
Kind of meh about the whole new General Tab.
(Full disclosure, I generally never put points into armor nor more than a point into any of the moved perks other than Parkour.)

It appears to be a sidegrade or downgrade, especially with the increasing points required per general level. Previously, I could spend the extra points into the relative tree and then gain access to more perks. Now, that advantage is removed.

I support the idea of "weaker versions" in the general tree but then the increasing point per level comes into play so it would need some balance. Maybe one/two skills for each skill tree that gives a small bonus to almost everything? e.g. Perception gets a General bonus to Lucky Looter, Treasure Hunter, and Salvage.
 
theFlu said:
Umm; disagree, but mainly with the "absolute" of "need". You don't Need any of that for any kind of a playthrough; in fact I practically never take Adv.Engi or Grease monkey, not one point. Salvage ops I elixir into if I need to harvest some steel for a high tier weapon, only Miner is a staple for me.

With mining getting essentially quadrupled (even more, quintupled?) in STR, I'd fully support (and kinda expected) moving one of the perks into generals; probably motherlode. Miner fits under STR better.

And the INT mastery baton thingy only looks weird when phrased like it is; a lot of skills are "+x %", the baton perk is essentially "charges 50% faster" => "charges 100% faster". Absolutely worth a two points, I have no issue with the mechanic.
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I never use the forgetting exiler and maybe I should. My issue is they aren't craftable and I'll only buy one if I got the duke's.

The issue Is Miner effects alot more then just mining. You want more ore via mining? Ok Perk into motherload and imo that can stay in strength.

But Miner 69er effects demo work, tree Harvesting, etc. That's why for block damage there should be a separate Perk. Miner49er the dollar store version. And if you wanna do even more block damage? Then do miner 69er! Break concrete in 4 hits let's go!

Same for salvage ops.

In terms of making sense is a double edge sword. Strength you need for everything irl. You need strong to weild almost any melee weapon or wear heavy armor.

You need to be smart in order to take things apart safely or make things, make new cooking ideas,

You need to be perceptive too gut the right part of a animal, loot head to toe. I can go on

If we were doing realistic then almost all weapons would be in strength and so on and the Game would wouldn't be Perk tree base. Instead it would be something like fallout 4 or new Vegas.
 
I feel like lucky looter deserves to be in perception, but salvage operations can go to general. Junk miner is sort of the same as salvage operations to me, should be in general. I also agree miner 69'er and mother lode should be in general, but then what would replace it? Strength wouldn't have any utility like the other trees do. They stay until another use case for strength replaces it. Armor perks, LotL, and master chef are good general perks. Lockpicking could go in agility since it is a stealth activity. Physician and Advanced Engineering should stay in intellect, since they are both perfect utilities of intellect (doctor/nurse and engineer). Grease Monkey should stay put too. The whole vibe of intellect is putting things together to make life easier. I also agree with @8_Hussars that having to spend more points now that they are in general sort of feels like a downgrade. This update makes me feel more like I'm poor with perk points.
 
Personally I was fine with the perks before the general perk tree. I think the more perks that get moved to a general tab with not attribute requirements, they might as well get rid of attributes altogether.

Also, after spending so many hours in the old system, I never any of this was ever a must and I typically went Agility so I wasn't going past the first level in those perks you listed.
 
I like the changes. but i think i'd rather have those perks back in the stat trees they were in previously. I am all for adding more perks lol. I think Heavy armor should be gated to Strength, because you have to be strong to wear heavy armor. I think Medium should be under Endurance, and light armor under Agility. I don't even care if each stat has the same number of perks.
 
Adam the Waster said:
But Miner 69er effects demo work, tree Harvesting, etc. That's why for block damage there should be a separate Perk. Miner49er the dollar store version. And if you wanna do even more block damage? Then do miner 69er! Break concrete in 4 hits let's go!
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It's the literal "harvesting tools" -tree, I would expect it to provide the block damage. I might rebalance augers / chainsaws to be natively a little slower (50-80% block DPS) than fully perked steel tools and just take them out of Miner. No buffs for mechanical tools => everyone gets into a 'decent' rate of harvest at the end, while STR is still faster (and a little different in flavor).
 
theFlu said:
It's the literal "harvesting tools" -tree, I would expect it to provide the block damage. I might rebalance augers / chainsaws to be natively a little slower (50-80% block DPS) than fully perked steel tools and just take them out of Miner. No buffs for mechanical tools => everyone gets into a 'decent' rate of harvest at the end, while STR is still faster (and a little different in flavor).
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That sounds like a neet idea
 
I think moving stuff over to the general is the wrong solution to the problem. If a perk feels mandatory for a decent playthrough, then something about it's design should probably change.

Additionally, miner 69:er and motherload are incredibly accessible perks, only needing strength 3 for rank 3/5. If you equip your mining helmet with a strength mod and a cigarr, you don't have to spend a single point in the strength attribute. No, you won't be an perfectly optimized expert miner, but you don't have to be either. Spend two points into strength and unlock rank 4/5. Boom! It's almost too easy.
 
I think grease monkey should be in the generic perks tab if biome progression is the new default progression style you're asking players to have atleast 1 small base in each biome as they move from each one, that's a lot of stuff to move around on only a bike.

To replace grease monkey for intellect I think a dedicated turret buff perk would be good (Maybe even stronger ammo or ability to place even more sentries?)

I worry with these new tanky zombies turrets are gonna fall behind in power compared to everything else that got buffed by all the new masteries and they already were pretty rough since you have to manually craft all their ammo compared to guns which you can find and buy a ton.

Also unrelated but does biome still affect loot stage at all or does it only affect the cap now? Is there any merit to skipping biomes?
 
elektrohund said:
Additionally, miner 69:er and motherload are incredibly accessible perks, only needing strength 3 for rank 3/5. If you equip your mining helmet with a strength mod and a cigarr, you don't have to spend a single point in the strength attribute. No, you won't be an perfectly optimized expert miner, but you don't have to be either. Spend two points into strength and unlock rank 4/5. Boom! It's almost too easy.
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This. People act like one: those perks are mandatory when they simply aren't, and two: they take a significant investment to get. They don't. Should we just move every perk that isn't tied to that attribute's weapon tree into general?
 
Joey9Baka said:
I think grease monkey should be in the generic perks tab if biome progression is the new default progression style you're asking players to have atleast 1 small base in each biome as they move from each one, that's a lot of stuff to move around on only a bike.

To replace grease monkey for intellect I think a dedicated turret buff perk would be good (Maybe even stronger ammo or ability to place even more sentries?)

I worry with these new tanky zombies turrets are gonna fall behind in power compared to everything else that got buffed by all the new masteries and they already were pretty rough since you have to manually craft all their ammo compared to guns which you can find and buy a ton.

Also unrelated but does biome still affect loot stage at all or does it only affect the cap now? Is there any merit to skipping biomes?
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It really isn't necessary. I rarely put points into it and always build up through gyro. You might get the magazines more quickly, but it's really not too hard to find them if you look in the places where they are more likely to be found (anywhere with pass n gas crates, like gas stations, for example).
 
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