PC Bandits and PvP
- Thread starter Grandpa Minion
- Start date
khzmusik
Hunter
I think we need to make something clear.
Bandits have absolutely nothing to do with multiplayer, much less PvP.
Bandits are just another form of enemy. Their AI might be better, but other than that, they're still enemies. Without anything further, the entity classes are just regurgitating info. That info is likely legitimate, but it might also be from the people who want you to adopt their code of conduct and/or are selling you something.
But for a lot of mods, bandits (as implemented "correctly") would be a single-player replacement for PvP. In most games that is the ideal, and I don't see 7D2D breaking that particular mode. Of course I'm not a TFP dev so I don't know for sure, but since TFP has never indicated that bandits would be anything other than enemies, I feel confidant that I'm not entirely incorrect.
Having said that - there is a mod called NPC Core which allows all sorts of NPCs, including friendly NPCs. I have made packs for that mod, which means that pack has allowed me to make non-enemy NPCs (which can be hired and such).
But again, this is not a "multiplayer" issue, since each individual player can have their own hires, and hire as many as they want.
Bandits have absolutely nothing to do with multiplayer, much less PvP.
Bandits are just another form of enemy. Their AI might be better, but other than that, they're still enemies. Without anything further, the entity classes are just regurgitating info. That info is likely legitimate, but it might also be from the people who want you to adopt their code of conduct and/or are selling you something.
But for a lot of mods, bandits (as implemented "correctly") would be a single-player replacement for PvP. In most games that is the ideal, and I don't see 7D2D breaking that particular mode. Of course I'm not a TFP dev so I don't know for sure, but since TFP has never indicated that bandits would be anything other than enemies, I feel confidant that I'm not entirely incorrect.
Having said that - there is a mod called NPC Core which allows all sorts of NPCs, including friendly NPCs. I have made packs for that mod, which means that pack has allowed me to make non-enemy NPCs (which can be hired and such).
But again, this is not a "multiplayer" issue, since each individual player can have their own hires, and hire as many as they want.
theFlu
Hunter
Please, do. I was about to write a "Wait, what" in response.
Points I'd have touched:
- the thread title was given by a Mod, while they were purging random nonsense from the dev thread. I don't think anyone has been conflating the two topics in any unreasonable manner.
- there's a large leap in your "first" paragraph, almost like you lost a para or two in edit. Here:
Roland
Community Moderator
I'll just add that in the past factions have been mentioned with a reputation system which means that not all bandits will necessarily be enemies. But.....who knows how fully these features will be developed if at all. They may decide to go much simpler and have all bandits be the Duke's crew and enemies of the player all the time.
Riamus
Hunter
Yeah, from what's been said in the past, I'd expect at least some neutral NPCs similar to traders who you can talk to. Maybe they'll even trade special faction stuff like decorations? That would be interesting. But it's all up in the air. I really doubt we'd see anything like NPCs you can hire. But I can see there being some neutral ones.
Though there was also some mention that you could take the Dukes side. In that case it would be weird if the bandits were shooting at you.
WarMongerian
Refugee
Personally, I hope the entire Bandit thing, however it ends up, is something that I can just "Nope the heck out of", and continue happily killing zombies, and not have to waste my computer processing time (or my personal playing time) with PvP, or PvP-like content.
I didn't buy this great game, with the intention of engaging in combat with other humans, I bought this great game to kill me some zombies! If (when) the bandits make it into the game, if I cannot click a button and say, "Naw dude naw" and deny any and all bandit content within any of my personal games, then 7 days to die will unfortunately end up in the discarded, "I used to play that game" pile.
I should probably make clear:
1) I like helping other folks in game. PvE
2) I dislike killing other folks in game. PvP.
3) I Hate Unilaterally killing of other folks in game. PK.
Right now, we can just use the game settings and select "No killing", and all is good. My concern is that vocal proponents of PvP (and to me, bandits are just an attempt to provide single player PvP) are going to cause TFP to ruin 7 days to die, trying to please the PvP and PK'er crowds.
I enjoy helping folks learn how to play. I myself have had and played extensively this great game since my initial download of the game, early on Feb 2nd, 2024. To this date, I don't think I have reached tier IV quests in any of my games. Until the 1st of June, 2025, I had been playing with the 300% XP settings, and this allowed me to reach level 300 in the last several games (still never without dying along the way), but when we started the current game, my friend and I decided to play with "Just" 150% XP settings. I died 1st Horde Night to a visiting Dire Wolf, and then a second time to a bad puddy cat, just up the street from the Carl's Corn in the snow biome. That is the extent of where I am at with this great game.
Helping new players has always been one of my main sources of satisfaction with this game, but I can only help folks that are just getting started.
About PvP.
I don't like it. I hate playing on discord, and hearing/seeing folks getting killed, grow frustrated with the game, and then never playing again. When it happens in PvE, I can help them out, and hopefully, they then start to die less often, get frustrated less, and stick around and learn to beat the zombies and enjoy this great game.
When their frustration stems from PvP, I cannot help them at all, and even though PvP is supposed to be mutually agreeable (and presumably) mutually enjoyable, far too often I see folks getting tromped on by someone that is more experienced/skilled in whatever game this is going on in. In games I used to play, take D2. In D2, way back in the day, you could make unprotected games without passwords, and meet new folks and make new friends, and all work together against the common enemy. Now, if you don't want to interact with the PvP crowd, you have to set up a passworded game, else the worst part of PvP finds you, and that is the PK'ers. The PK'ers ruined what had been an enjoyable game, and so I will never play D2 again on Battlenet.
Look at Starcraft 2.
SC 2 used to be a fun game where you could easily find folks of all skill levels and interests. Now it is entirely focused on PvP, it is all build - rush - win (Or loose), and long game are not a thing. They had a good map maker, but they abandoned PvE in their quest to try to monetize PvP play. Another game I will never play again on Battlenet.
Look at the abortion called New World.
Amazon Game Studio advertised a new game (New World) which was touted as a game where everyone could play and have a good time, both PvE and PvP. The reality? The entire game was designed, from the ground up, as a PvP platform, which they realized was never going to pay for it's development as such, and so they dressed it up for a few months as a game for both playstyles, then waited for a few months and then made PvP better than PvE, at least in all ways PvE.
The idea?
Give PvE activities bonuses, if and only if, folks 'flagged for PvP'.
Result?
Folks that had no interest in PvP could choose one of two options.
1) Continue playing exclusively in PvE, and watch others getting PvE bonuses, if they flagged.
2) Flag for PvP, and then be killed, over and over again, while trying to play PvE on an equal basis with others doing so.
AGS did this around christmas time the year it released, and I had purchased the game in Sep that year, when it first came out. When this underhanded crap hit the fan, most folks didn't even stick around to try it out. I continued trying to play, without ever flagging for PvP, and was constantly getting harrassed to "Just try PvP" = "Let us get our Jollies by killing you". I watched that game die, and saw what a total set of looser's they had on their design team over at AGS. To this day, I will never play another game from that design studio, even free.
About PK.
No discussion of PvP can be complete unless we delve into the dark side, and that is the disturbed world of folks that just want to kill you. Unlike folks that want the thrill of a skilled, worthy opponent to compete with, the PK'ers just want to win/kill you. No matter what. Even if they have to cheat/hack. Winning is all. This leads to a downward spiral, and ends with the "Toxic Turds" strutting around, bragging up a storm, with all of their aimbots and other hacks, just looking for a new set of victims...
Does this start to sound familiar?
PvP will always draw out the PK'ers, and a potentially fun game will end up getting twisted into something toxic.
Back to 7 days to die.
In this game, we have a wonderful opportunity to have a game that is entirely without any PvP/PvP like content. Putting Bandits into the game, would be putting PvP like content into the game. If The Fun Pimps do this, I hope that they do it in a way that comes with a "Naw man naw" game setting, so those of us with no interest in getting PK'ed by an AI 'Bandit' can just opt out of the whole thing.
I am here for some zombie stomping, and working with other players, not fighting other players.
Having seen play on a couple of servers, before learning how to create my own games, and getting the authentic feel for starting off on day one, and learning to survive the Zombies with only what I can gather/make is fun and the reason I am here. Bandits and PvP are not why I am here.
Sorry for the long rant, but I wanted to chime in on this stuff. If folks want to play with PvP/Bandits, in the games that they host, let them. But if I cannot keep that out of my own hosted games, then 7dtd will be over for me.
Last edited:
theFlu
Hunter
I read all of that, but I don't actually get what your main issue with bandits is? They'll be "slightly smarter" than zeds, but they won't be deleting your base, spawncamping you or even berating you for poor performance.
I expect them to be really limited in their ability past what the current zeds do; the worst they can become is "more accurate cops". They "can" hit you with high accuracy, and maybe use explosives in a dangerous way (accurate rocket launcher fire).
But I don't believe for a second that they're going to be a jump in difficulty; TFP wouldn't have been testing an "underpowered" game for all this time, only to reveal they're going nightmare mode later on. They might be up there with harder glowies, but they'll also be limited in appearing then.
And why do you need to conflate them with players? They're not, they never will be. Fighting bandits in 7dtd is never going to resemble PvP, unless the LLM:s manage a singularity and become the benevolent leaders of the world - and decide to use 7dtd as their platform for population contr^H^H^H entertainment.
Calling it PvP is somewhat like Granny's "millions of PvP players", except less accurate. It ain't PvP unless there's fleshy players on both sides.
Roland
Community Moderator
@WarMongerian Bandits will simply be a new threat to PvE against. They will be part of the game world environment. You can continue to help people learn how to survive against bandits just like you have against zombies and hostile animals.
I wouldn’t worry about PvP overrunning this game. Heh…you’re like the anti-matter version of Grandpa Minion.
I wouldn’t worry about PvP overrunning this game. Heh…you’re like the anti-matter version of Grandpa Minion.
Grandpa Minion
Scavenger
Thank you for providing a more in-depth explanation on this. The key term is "multiplayer"
7d2d accomodates and supports up to 8 players.
Considering that the game already has a maximum zombie count of 60,
how could bandits be integrated into the game without creating a fps issue because of the amount of entitys on map?
What adjustments would need to be made for the game to support them in a multiplayer environment?
Riamus
Hunter
Ignoring the pointless repetition from GM....
As has been pointed out, the bandits aren't going to be anything like PVP. So not sure what you're getting at. They will just be another PVE enemy. Now, if you are like me and play this game for the zombies like you said, then I agree that disabling bandits would be a good option to have. Not because they have anything at all to do with PVP, but because I play the game for zombies. Perhaps what you're getting at is that you don't want to play a game where you kill enemies that appear as living humans? If so, there isn't anything wrong with that. But that's not the same thing as PVP. In any case, if you are on PC, I am certain there will be a mod to disable bandits pretty soon after they are released for those of us who decide we don't want them in our games if TFP doesn't include an option to disable them. I'm still going to try them and maybe I'll even like them, but I play this for the zombies. If I want to kill bandits/mercs/etc., I'll play a different game.
As has been pointed out, the bandits aren't going to be anything like PVP. So not sure what you're getting at. They will just be another PVE enemy. Now, if you are like me and play this game for the zombies like you said, then I agree that disabling bandits would be a good option to have. Not because they have anything at all to do with PVP, but because I play the game for zombies. Perhaps what you're getting at is that you don't want to play a game where you kill enemies that appear as living humans? If so, there isn't anything wrong with that. But that's not the same thing as PVP. In any case, if you are on PC, I am certain there will be a mod to disable bandits pretty soon after they are released for those of us who decide we don't want them in our games if TFP doesn't include an option to disable them. I'm still going to try them and maybe I'll even like them, but I play this for the zombies. If I want to kill bandits/mercs/etc., I'll play a different game.
khzmusik
Hunter
If you thought the key term is "multiplayer" then you misunderstood my post. (Which is probably my fault.)
My point is that a bandit NPC, properly implemented, is a replacement for an enemy player in PvP.
So you are asking the wrong question. The question you should be asking is how many enemy players are equivalent to one bandit NPC, not how many zombies are equivalent.
And I can pretty much guarantee that the game will support more than 8 bandits at a time, which is more than the supported number of simultaneous players.
Grandpa Minion
Scavenger
The questions posed as is was highly pertinent pertaining to multiplayer.
Version 3.0 is anticipated to be the bandit update, and since version 2.0 was released months behind, players frequently inquire about my thoughts on when the bandit feature will be implemented.
Understanding when the game will be optimized to accommodate bandits with eight players on in multiplayer and without a reduction in the number of zombies to make that happen is crucial for providing an answer.
If i had to answer them today my honest answer would be:
tfp haven't been able to fix some simple bugs client side in many years, what makes you think they can add something like bandits to run without any issues with 8 players on?
thank you again for clearing it up even further that helps alot.
Riamus
Hunter
Trust me when I say that no one here is asking you for your thoughts on bandits. Yet you have given your "it'll never happen" speech dozens of times. Everyone knows you think the game doesn't support bandits even though the devs have made it clear that it will. We'll all trust the devs over you.