PC Dedicated servers for console

[HammerDano]

There have been conversations around this that remain unresolved. Answers that were probably intended to be vague...I just want to know did TFP ever submit for dedicated console servers? if so...when and why was it refused?

 

[Jugginator]

You'll find out soon enough . We can't really talk about communications with the console companies and it takes time with a lot of ambiguous back and forth.

 

[HammerDano]

what? you'll tell us afterwards but not before?

Have TFP submited for dedicated servers for consoles? at all? I don't care about good intentions or we thought we were close to a milestone so we waited. Have they applied for dedicated or not?

 

[Jugginator]

We can't really talk about communications with the console companies

I meant this when I said this, both of them are really strict about disclosing communications/processes publicly. As with the first certification process, once it passes and is all good there will be news about it

 

[HammerDano]

"fingers crossed"...forget about that?

we won't know until certification IF console will get dedicated....except, according to faatal, TFP did not apply for it. So I guess that part of the post should have read "we know you won't get dedicated...we did not apply for it"

Fine, they don't like communication being disclosed...how does that stop anyone from TFP from telling us IF they even applied for dedicated console servers? that doesn't disclose a single thing about Sony or MS.

I'll just assume the answer is...TFP have not applied...and they did allow the speculation on their site, blame Sony and Microsoft, because it was easier than being honest.

 

[Dead Smarty]

I meant this when I said this, both of them are really strict about disclosing communications/processes publicly. As with the first certification process, once it passes and is all good there will be news about it

I admire your patience. No matter what you say, he'll find a way to missunderstand you.

 

[meganoth]

"fingers crossed"...forget about that?

we won't know until certification IF console will get dedicated....except, according to faatal, TFP did not apply for it. So I guess that part of the post should have read "we know you won't get dedicated...we did not apply for it"

Fine, they don't like communication being disclosed...how does that stop anyone from TFP from telling us IF they even applied for dedicated console servers? that doesn't disclose a single thing about Sony or MS.

I'll just assume the answer is...TFP have not applied...and they did allow the speculation on their site, blame Sony and Microsoft, because it was easier than being honest.

It depends on what "applying for dedicated" actually means. Fataals post seems to imply that "appyling" simply means "sending a version to be released to the console companies". In other words TFP already has a general agreement with Sony and Microsoft that they can publish a dedicated server version or didn't need one at all. But that also means it would have been a risk to add dedicated to say 1.3 or 1.4 when dedicated was maybe operational but not as polished as TFP would wish, because it would have delayed the rest of features and bug fixes.

Fataal said that **in hindsight** he probably would have made an 1.x release with the dedicated server feature. Which means he was surprised as well about the delays that prevented 2.0.

But at the time of his post it seemed already too late for inserting a 1.5 release, "too late" as in "it would have been additional work and time lost for too small an effect". Releasing a version like 1.5 isn't just hitting some buttons, it takes days or weeks of preparation and even adds work afterwards as bug fixes have to be applied to 1.5 and 2.0 in parallel for a time.

This is probably how it went (in my estimation). It means that if they would tell you that they applied already then it would also disclose that they got denied already. Therefore they should not say that at all, especially not officially. Not if they still want goodwill and cooperation from the console companies.

 

[HammerDano]

I admire your patience. No matter what you say, he'll find a way to missunderstand you.

which part was too complicated for you? I asked a direct question and got a non answer...I don't accept the non answer. Is that the part you don't get? Just because I am not getting an answer does not make it a bad question, or that I am wrong to ask for an answer to a question they really don't want revealed.

@meganoth I simply do not believe/accept that word salad answer. It ignores the amount of blame that got heaped on Sony and MS for no damn reason on this site...and i am expected to believe that telling me IF TFP had applied would break some kind of confidentiality agreement? gimme a break. It is a simple question...faatal has made statements around it, that have led people to believe that "it" was all being held up by Sony and MS...or that "it" is done they just need to submit "it". 

 

[NiteVIper]

Not to be a D***, but I feel for any moderators and so on, in these forums.

 

[meganoth]

which part was too complicated for you? I asked a direct question and got a non answer...I don't accept the non answer. Is that the part you don't get? Just because I am not getting an answer does not make it a bad question, or that I am wrong to ask for an answer to a question they really don't want revealed.

@meganoth I simply do not believe/accept that word salad answer. It ignores the amount of blame that got heaped on Sony and MS for no damn reason on this site...and i am expected to believe that telling me IF TFP had applied would break some kind of confidentiality agreement? gimme a break. It is a simple question...faatal has made statements around it, that have led people to believe that "it" was all being held up by Sony and MS...or that "it" is done they just need to submit "it". 

Please show me where he did that. I am fairly sure that Fataal did not give out such information. I was always assuming that M+S would put lots of road blocks in the way of crossplay (especially Sony as the market leader for console) but it was also always in my head that it was only a theory.

So, please show me some evidence.

 

[HammerDano]

Please show me where he did that. I am fairly sure that Fataal did not give out such information. I was always assuming that M+S would put lots of road blocks in the way of crossplay (especially Sony as the market leader for console) but it was also always in my head that it was only a theory.

So, please show me some evidence.

parse thru your own database. pretending multiple people have not had the same conversation about this is maddening. It is a simple question and you'd rather gas light than answer it. 

 

[HammerDano]

Not to be a D***, but I feel for any moderators and so on, in these forums.

View attachment 34243

what is hard to understand? did TFP EVER...even once...apply for dedicated servers for console? why would THAT be a hard question to answer? I'd guess that the answer is they have not...and nobody wants to admit it.

 

[SylenThunder]

Here are some quotes I dug out of the diary. And for those interested, this is stupid easy to do if you want to waste 20 minutes before your coffee on a Saturday morning. It is amazing HammerDano hasn't bothered to do this himself already.

Our console team is another company and they even help us work on general features, optimizations and bugs besides console, so hiring them to do console actually speed up PC dev. Our TFP programmers work 99% on PC, many of them never touch console. We do not plan features based on console. We tell the console guys to make it work and if it does not, we don't go removing it from PC. Examples of console limits - world sizes, max player counts, mods, dedi servers, save game total size.

Over half the stuff on the internet guessing how we do development is wrong, because they don't work here and/or have no clue about game development.

Autonomous Sensory Meridian Response? Creepy!

We are working on a new doc of 2.0 features as I generally only like to hint at spoilers for my own stuff and not other dev's. Hopefully that gets posted *soon and we start our 2.0 dev diary.

  *soon does not indicate or guarantee any actual amount of time. Use with caution and plan accordingly. Have a nice day!

Ok, I picked those at random because they looked interesting. The first one was just from a basic search for "dedi server", and the second was just nearby.

These next are in chronological order. Oldest is first, and working forwards in time. Just like reading a book.

@bdubyah the last couple of days I have been going back and forth on a lot of things. Fataal made it clear they knew they could not get approval for dedicated crossplay right now. So Imagine my surprise when they make a post tonight and at the very bottom they add the "fingers crossed, but we will not...blah blah blah"

but, they do know.

let me guess...they are still working on it and they have a month til cert. cool. I will not say another word about it until then. fair enough?

If you want to make a bet on it. I am open. say a formal heartfelt apology?

I did not say that. Why would we spent time working on a feature we knew would not get approved?

Nothing in life is guaranteed. Anything the company or I say about ANYTHING could NOT happen.

I will note, that I did not see a post from Faatal stating what HammerDano claims here. And I went all the way back into the 1.0 dev diary.

I think you are barking up the wrong tree here: Platform holders decided to accept this game is in the current state in their shop and should have been aware of the intentions for dedicated servers and crossplay. This should have the consequence that they should allow this feature or at least be very specific about why the feature is denied, wich they are not so dev's like TFP are getting ff'ed just as much as we do by Sony and MS.

I don't have any insider knowledge about the reasons here but if I had to guess it might have to do with the fact that TFP does not limit the online experience to official servers that are policed and managed by TFP itself. Every single public dedicated server in existence is managed by private individuals with zero oversight by TFP.

Some have suggested that it is a conflict between Sony and Microsoft but that can't really be it since currently crossplay between xbox and PS5 is already possible player to player. That issue (if it was really there) has already been resolved. The issue has to be about server security and perhaps the console companies don't look at private dedicated servers as being acceptable (despite the fact that official servers for many games are often the worst servers that exist for those games...).

Just a guess though.

Yes, whether you control the servers or not makes a difference.

Getting those embeds to work was fun.

This one is following up another one of HammerDano's tirades on the forum. Not doing all the embeds on it because that would just be silly.

 Why have I not led a crusade against Sony and Micro Soft even though there is no proof that it is their fault that 7 dtd can't/didn't pass certification? you on crack?

 I leave myself exits? lets hear them.

At this point getting dedicated released is currently on us as we have been waiting for 2.0 to be in a good working state to do a submission for it, but delays keep happening. In hindsight we could have tried to push it through with a 1.x release, but the "we will be done any week now" mindset held it back. If we had a time machine, we could go back and try to fix all kind of things, but we don't, so we can't.

I really don't care who you blame or what you crusade against as long as you don't clutter up this forum with a bunch of idle chatter. All people and companies make mistakes and we know about our mistakes as we do talk about what we could do better as any business should. That being said, mistakes are often repeated and lessons can be hard to learn. For my part, I am focused on getting things done and not wasting my time dwelling on past mistakes.

Yet another discussion stemmed from HammerDano's insistence to get information. Again, not fully following the embeds. Y'all can follow back if you're interested.

You were right! It was said we were waiting on Sony and Microsoft, but it hasn't even gotten to them yet. 

Not sure. I understand Fataal saying that the current implementation has not been submitted yet. That doesn't mean they didn't get a laundry list of changes from Sony/Microsoft after submitting a then-current state of the game at a past date. Which would better fit with past communication, unless I misunderstood completely.

Our console devs communicated with then, but that is not the same as submission, which no one would know as we don't give out many details of our dev process. Game dev is messy and full of unknowns even if you are best organized person in the world.

"Waiting for 2.0 and could've tried pushing it through for 1.x" doesn't sound like it was ever submitted despite the official Storms Brewing Update page stating "We will not know officially if Consoles can play on dedicated servers until passing cert on each platform. Fingers crossed". 

"Fingers crossed" implies that it's now in the hands of MS & Sony.

I don't know. 

That was a future looking statement, that at the time was about to happen, and then several delays came up due to many other things not being done and scope creep.

So there you are. Everthing the devs have said on the subject. Because Faatal is the only full dev posting on the forum currently. This is what is known. This is what you can go by. These are the factual statements.

parse thru your own database. pretending multiple people have not had the same conversation about this is maddening. It is a simple question and you'd rather gas light than answer it. 

It should be said that you can do this yourself. As I just have.  Oh gods the horror of doing work to achieve a goal!

And to think, I started this before 8. I did only spend a few minute on it, but cats had to be fed, and other life events drug me away from the PC.

Also, seems like a good time to close this discussion. HammerDano can put the tar and feathers away, and go find some other informational crusade to fight.

 

[HammerDano]

have TFP applied for dedicated servers for consoles? how hard is that to answer? have they EVER applied for dedicated servers for consoles?

 

[SylenThunder]

have TFP applied for dedicated servers for consoles? how hard is that to answer? have they EVER applied for dedicated servers for consoles?

You have received the answer you're going to get. They aren't saying more, and the legal reasons behind that have been summarized for you whether you want to believe it or not.

This discussion is over. If one of the developers chooses to give more information, they will still be able to post in the thread.