PC V2.0 Delayed Again

[HammerDano]

I have friends who keep asking me if this game is "worth it" yet for console...I want to tell them "almost". I can play up to tier 5 POI's with a Xbox "s"...if console had dedicated servers it would be in a acceptable state, for us, to wait for the rest of the content/optimization, I just have no idea when that will happen. Every delay puts them off the game. IF...and only IF this is the last small delay for THIS update, the game will have been out for almost a year before they accomplish the first road map marker. It should not be controversial to point out that consoles are still waiting for basic features we should have had on launch...they are not giving us a reason to be enthusiastic or to help them sell this game to our friends. I hope they get there, and won't apologize, for wanting that to be sooner than later. Those of you advocating for TFP to stop setting dates...why? because they never meet them? 

Moderator's Note: This discussion was split off from the Developer's Diary so that it may continue without cluttering up that focused thread.

 

[Riamus]

Those of you advocating for TFP to stop setting dates...why? because they never meet them? 

Those who don't think dates should be posted seem to feel that way because people complain so much when they aren't met.  It isn't because they aren't met.  If people weren't complaining so much every time the date isn't met, I think those advocating for no dates wouldn't worry about it.  I don't really care either way, but a lot of complaining about missed dates all the time does get old.  Those who are used to TFP already know to expect dates to be missed, so we don't really pay much attention to the dates.  But those who don't understand it will complain any time a date is missed even though it clearly says that the dates are subject to change or are estimates.  There were a ton of people who believed 2.0 would be out in Q4 2024 even when we were in the middle of December.  And when I said my estimate was not until March, people were saying I was a pessimist and that wouldn't happen.  Yet my prediction wasn't even far enough out.  Heh.

Im.still worred about bloodmoons and I understand why they are doing it but they should just combine forces and work on 7dtd. 

Imagine how quick updates could get done. Or how big they would be 

Considering there are only a very few number of people assisting with Bloodmoons, that wouldn't really make any difference.

 

[HammerDano]

Those who don't think dates should be posted seem to feel that way because people complain so much when they aren't met.  It isn't because they aren't met.  If people weren't complaining so much every time the date isn't met, I think those advocating for no dates wouldn't worry about it.  I don't really care either way, but a lot of complaining about missed dates all the time does get old.  Those who are used to TFP already know to expect dates to be missed, so we don't really pay much attention to the dates.  But those who don't understand it will complain any time a date is missed even though it clearly says that the dates are subject to change or are estimates.  There were a ton of people who believed 2.0 would be out in Q4 2024 even when we were in the middle of December.  

I'll be up front and honest about my position on this: I think that "all dates subject to change" is a poor excuse. Especially when it is the third time you are pushing back the same update. I get why PC users don't care, you have not been stuck waiting for basic features so this stuff rarely affects you. For you guys it has been years of basically getting a new dlc like amount of content or content changes to play for a month...every year...for years  and years.

 

[Riamus]

I'll be up front and honest about my position on this: I think that "all dates subject to change" is a poor excuse. Especially when it is the third time you are pushing back the same update. I get why PC users don't care, you have not been stuck waiting for basic features so this stuff rarely affects you. For you guys it has been years of basically getting a new dlc like amount of content or content changes to play for a month...every year...for years  and years.

Ok... but you are now in the exact same situation as PC users.  You aren't missing out on stuff anymore and get the updates just like we do.  You aren't the only ones waiting on 2.0.

 

[HammerDano]

Ok... but you are now in the exact same situation as PC users.  You aren't missing out on stuff anymore and get the updates just like we do.  You aren't the only ones waiting on 2.0.

nope...almost, but...we are are still waiting for dedicated servers...with no idea of when we will get them. They were/are tied to 2.0? except even that has become "fingers crossed"  

The simple solution is to stop letting Rick be the one to say things. It seems like he's the one who always over-estimates or tries to get players hyped for something that isn't happening or remotely ready, causing Lathan and Joel to try and shut him up during dev streams and such.

huh? it's been since the launch that I have seen or heard either of them... or are you saying that the brothers set the roadmap dates, overestimate the teams abilities, and are in charge of the public posts so that's why it is still on them.

 

[meganoth]

nope...almost, but...we are are still waiting for dedicated servers...with no idea of when we will get them. They were/are tied to 2.0? except even that has become "fingers crossed"  

Not "become", it was always dependent on the ok of external parties.

Waiting for dedicated servers is not different from waiting for bandits, or waiting for the weather update.

 

[SylenThunder]

nope...almost, but...we are are still waiting for dedicated servers...with no idea of when we will get them. They were/are tied to 2.0? except even that has become "fingers crossed"  

They haven't been expressly "tied" to any release. It's always been "maybe this time Sony and Microshaft will approve it".

Peer-2-Peer was originally expected to arrive with v1.0, but the console companies nixed it. Took until the 1.3 update to approve that, and there were hopes that dedicated servers would be approved at that point, but they were not.

Even the 2.0 release isn't a guarantee. It falls entirely on whether Sony and Microshaft will approve it with this release.

 

[Old Crow]

nope...almost, but...we are are still waiting for dedicated servers...with no idea of when we will get them. They were/are tied to 2.0? except even that has become "fingers crossed"  

huh? it's been since the launch that I have seen or heard either of them... or are you saying that the brothers set the roadmap dates, overestimate the teams abilities, and are in charge of the public posts so that's why it is still on them.

There's been a couple of devstreams (A21 comes to mind as one of them) where Rick started saying something about teleporting or fast travel with the helipads and radios at the trader compounds, and Lathan and Joel quickly shush him.

Then the 2.0 update post, where Rick says experimental is (hopefully) set for April 15th... which isn't even on a day (a Tuesday) they'd release an experimental.

 

[HammerDano]

Not "become", it was always dependent on the ok of external parties.

Waiting for dedicated servers is not different from waiting for bandits, or waiting for the weather update.

read the Winterpatch notes... dedicated servers were slated for 2.0. I am glad TFP decided to honor the weather side of Storm's Breaking, but, it is last minute decision to cover their ass, that is extending the timeline of this game development. I know, We disagree about that, I still think NOW, is not the time to still be @%$#ing around adding unannounced new things instead of meeting the roadmap.

Console waiting for the ability to share games with a party just like the PC version is not the same as waiting for game features, that is a false equivalence. This is a relaunch to console without the basic content for console on launch. keep waiting we'll give you rwg...keep waiting you'll get poorly performing crossplay...but, not dedicated servers, nope, those you have got to wait even longer for.

They haven't been expressly "tied" to any release. It's always been "maybe this time Sony and Microshaft will approve it".

Peer-2-Peer was originally expected to arrive with v1.0, but the console companies nixed it. Took until the 1.3 update to approve that, and there were hopes that dedicated servers would be approved at that point, but they were not.

Even the 2.0 release isn't a guarantee. It falls entirely on whether Sony and Microshaft will approve it with this release.

they tied dedicated servers for console to 2.0 in the Winterpatch notes

so what are you trying to say about peer to peer and dedicated servers? that console should be grateful we got anything? you seem to be saying that console might not even get a game...just depends on Sony and MS

 

[HammerDano]

So, am I wrong to be thinking these guys should tell the general public they are delaying the 2.0 update again?

 

[zztong]

Those of you advocating for TFP to stop setting dates...why? because they never meet them? 

I don't know that I'm advocating for TFP to stop setting dates, but I don't necessarily care if they meet them. Yes, perhaps I don't care anymore because they don't meet them. I've come to the understanding they don't consider them deadlines, just vague forecasts. I can work with that even if sometimes I'm craving some new feature.

You can choose to look at it as some kind of project management failure, but the owners are the stakeholders. If they're happy then it's a successful project. If they're placing their priorities on something other than deadlines then a project manager would roll with that. It doesn't seem like a deadline-driven project. Maybe the stakeholders are permissive with scope creep. Maybe they iterate a lot internally on design.

It isn't a corporate drum beat.

So, am I wrong to be thinking these guys should tell the general public they are delaying the 2.0 update again?

Didn't they? I mean, it was a forum post by a developer, not full-on marketing. It was informal, not formal, but it was said, right?

 

[Riamus]

read the Winterpatch notes... dedicated servers were slated for 2.0. I am glad TFP decided to honor the weather side of Storm's Breaking, but, it is last minute decision to cover their ass, that is extending the timeline of this game development. I know, We disagree about that, I still think NOW, is not the time to still be @%$#ing around adding unannounced new things instead of meeting the roadmap.

Console waiting for the ability to share games with a party just like the PC version is not the same as waiting for game features, that is a false equivalence. This is a relaunch to console without the basic content for console on launch. keep waiting we'll give you rwg...keep waiting you'll get poorly performing crossplay...but, not dedicated servers, nope, those you have got to wait even longer for.

they tied dedicated servers for console to 2.0 in the Winterpatch notes

so what are you trying to say about peer to peer and dedicated servers? that console should be grateful we got anything? you seem to be saying that console might not even get a game...just depends on Sony and MS

But what does that have to do with your statement about not knowing the date of 2.0?  The dedicated servers aren't waiting because 2.0 is delayed.  That is entirely waiting on stuff with Sony and Microsoft.  TFP said back at 1.0 that it worked with console.  They could have released it with 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, or even 1.4 if Sony and Microsoft agreed.  They wouldn't hold it off until 2.0.  After all, they released P2P before 2.0 even though that was also listed as being part of 2.0.

 

[HammerDano]

But what does that have to do with your statement about not knowing the date of 2.0?  The dedicated servers aren't waiting because 2.0 is delayed.  That is entirely waiting on stuff with Sony and Microsoft.  TFP said back at 1.0 that it worked with console.  They could have released it with 1.0, 1.1, 1.2, 1.3, or even 1.4 if Sony and Microsoft agreed.  They wouldn't hold it off until 2.0.  After all, they released P2P before 2.0 even though that was also listed as being part of 2.0.

You are making the conflation. What I said is at the top of this page. TFP did tie dedicated servers to the 2.0 update...then they partially severed that connection by saying "fingers crossed". I know that they will release 2.0 at some point...hopefully less than a year after they released the game, but, who knows. What we don't know is when are we going to get dedicated servers for console? There is no updated post for that...and just saying that it is up to Sony and MS is not entirely true. Why has it not been approved so far? when will TFP fix those defects? why no urgency? those are questions I'd like to see answered as well. 

 

[Arez]

Those of you advocating for TFP to stop setting dates...why? because they never meet them? 

No. It's because writing the time periods takes up too much space on the roadmap image.

Of course it's because they can't be met. Unless they know for a fact when things are going to come out no one should mention anything regarding time on a roadmap. If they are going to list time periods, the best thing that any company should do is always give much later estimates. It's called "Underpromise and Overdeliver". It's a very smart customer satisfaction strategy that many companies utilize. 

Also, I'm curious to know, do you think TFP is lying when they say dedicated servers for console are at the mercy of Sony & Microsoft? Do you think TFP is simply saying it's up to Sony & Microsoft but it's really TFP's fault that it's not available now? 

 

[HammerDano]

No. It's because writing the time periods takes up too much space on the roadmap image.

Of course it's because they can't be met. Unless they know for a fact when things are going to come out no one should mention anything regarding time on a roadmap. If they are going to list time periods, the best thing that any company should do is always give much later estimates. It's called "Underpromise and Overdeliver". It's a very smart customer satisfaction strategy that many companies utilize. 

Also, I'm curious to know, do you think TFP is lying when they say dedicated servers for console are at the mercy of Sony & Microsoft? Do you think TFP is simply saying it's up to Sony & Microsoft but it's really TFP's fault that it's not available now? 

I think we could have a whole thread on that topic...if the roadmap dates are meaningless and should not have been posted at all...why did they do a roadmap with dates?  oh well...some other time.

Do I think TFP are lying when they say dedicated servers are at the mercy of Sony and MS? Do I think Think TFP are just blaming the platforms but it is really their fault?

I hope I rephrased the second question in a reasonable fashion to you.

the obvious is: of course the platforms have to approve of what you have...end of story.

1) lying is an interesting choice of words...because "we" the public, lack certain information, it would be reckless to accuse them of lying about this subject.  What I (and maybe we) don't know is when did they first apply? was it before the game launched? shortly after? when? This one is very important... why was it refused? How many time have they tried/what dates? until I know those answers,  all I have to go on is what is in the forums...and 2) that it has been 9 months, that feels like a long time to not be able to get permissions. especially when they are being so adamant THEY can "do crossplay". the lack of information is not encouraging. sorry, I guess the answer to two is: honestly, I do think they might maybe could be a little, but, I just don't know. That was not meant as an accusation...just an admission.

 

[Old Crow]

I think we could have a whole thread on that topic...if the roadmap dates are meaningless and should not have been posted at all...why did they do a roadmap with dates?  oh well...some other time.

Do I think TFP are lying when they say dedicated servers are at the mercy of Sony and MS? Do I think Think TFP are just blaming the platforms but it is really their fault?

I hope I rephrased the second question in a reasonable fashion to you.

the obvious is: of course the platforms have to approve of what you have...end of story.

1) lying is an interesting choice of words...because "we" the public, lack certain information, it would be reckless to accuse them of lying about this subject.  What I (and maybe we) don't know is when did they first apply? was it before the game launched? shortly after? when? This one is very important... why was it refused? How many time have they tried/what dates? until I know those answers,  all I have to go on is what is in the forums...and 2) that it has been 9 months, that feels like a long time to not be able to get permissions. especially when they are being so adamant THEY can "do crossplay". the lack of information is not encouraging. sorry, I guess the answer to two is: honestly, I do think they might maybe could be a little, but, I just don't know. That was not meant as an accusation...just an admission.

In a rare moment of defending the Fun Pimps -  said roadmap, and even Rick's post last month, did state that dates are subject to change. A lot of people choose not to read that part.

Given their history though, yes, it might be better if they did NOT post anything vaguely resembling a date for experimental or stable releases until they are ABSOLUTELY certain they can hit said date. Unfortunately, this means we'd hear nothing from them regarding releases until at most a week or less prior.

I can't imagine how frustrating this is for the dev team when someone higher up decides to throw out a random date for a release, regardless of whether or not that date comes with a stated disclaimer.

 

[HammerDano]

you guys have met me...if I knew for fact it was Sony and Xbox dragging their heels...I would harass them daily...I would encourage everyone else to do it...it worked for Helldivers. lol

 

[HammerDano]

In a rare moment of defending the Fun Pimps -  said roadmap, and even Rick's post last month, did state that dates are subject to change. A lot of people choose not to read that part.

Given their history though, yes, it might be better if they did NOT post anything vaguely resembling a date for experimental or stable releases until they are ABSOLUTELY certain they can hit said date. Unfortunately, this means we'd hear nothing from them regarding releases until at most a week or less prior.

I can't imagine how frustrating this is for the dev team when someone higher up decides to throw out a random date for a release, regardless of whether or not that date comes with a stated disclaimer.

I did read that part...I think they oversold the roadmap as being something they would follow...where they absolutely are going to do all of the stuff they said they would do...they just didn't mean any of the timings? at all? that and we only had a month to buy in...oh fomo...you got me.

given their history...sure...yeah...but...also, they did sell it with the roadmap...and three delays on the first goal? dude...

well...they do know who they are working for...that has to cut both ways right? You guys forgive them for missing all of their self imposed deadlines...that again...you guys were all fine with...it takes as long as it takes...the official chant. lol. but, they have been setting and missing dates for as long as they been making the game? maybe not, but, a long time now...you guys have been cool with that until now...

 

[Vaeliorin]

well...they do know who they are working for...that has to cut both ways right? You guys forgive them for missing all of their self imposed deadlines...that again...you guys were all fine with...it takes as long as it takes...the official chant. lol. but, they have been setting and missing dates for as long as they been making the game? maybe not, but, a long time now...you guys have been cool with that until now...

I don't know that we forgive them, necessarily.  We just know that they're not going to make the dates they set (I've only been around since 16.4, but I can't recall them making a single deadline they've set) and we know there's no point getting upset about it, because it's not going to change anything.

Believe me, I'm no mindless defender of TFP (I think they've gone way off the rails since A16.4) but at this point it's either get upset about something that will never, ever change, or just accept the fact that we'll get the next update whenever they finish it.

That said, the chances of me buying whatever they do next before it's fully released (and actually finished) is pretty much zero.

 

[NukemDed]

Yeah all they really did was alter some genes to give it Dire wolf traits but it's a start. 

yeah

the beginning of the end

You dare break your binding covenant??

...forged from the blood and souls of countless adherents sacrificed to permanently etch the agreed upon date into the Tapestry of Fate???

A fixed point in time shining as a great beacon in the chaos; giving precious hope to those lost in the Immaterium?????

Have you gone mad??????

Oathbreaker! Heresy!!!

-Arch Necromancer Morloc 

and fun pimps be like yeah nah whatever

You are making the conflation. 

thank you for that. i learned a new word today

conflation

words are power. i leveled up