PC V2.0 Storms Brewing Dev Diary

I first launched the game on December 23, 2019. Since then, I have played 1996 hours. And during this time, I have never installed a single mod.


It is good to have choices. You choose to not use mods. I have played tons with no mods but have also played with mods. Again, it's a choice.

Am playing Alpha 20 right now and have about 21 mods installed with it. It's just something to do as I wait for next version to drop.

As long as you get enjoyment out of playing the game, play it how you like. That is the great thing about it.

 
"choices" weird or what ever the case has been one of my major complaints over the years..

especially after alpha 15 and so on by the direction the game takes. Every alpha the meta always changing...


This is only true for those who think the entire purpose of the game is to level up as quickly as possible. For those of us who see leveling up as just one element of the larger game, we still play the game pretty much the same as we always have. I started in Alpha 6 and back then we ran around exploring, building our bases, establishing our stores of food and water, crafting, harvesting, and mining. Now in 1.3 I still do those things but I also do some jobs for the trader. I level up and read magazines and gain new crafting knowledge as I do all of those other things making do with what I have until I find/craft/progress to more. In this way the meta has remained the same but with the enhancements that have been introduced over the last 10 years. Sure, those enhancements have come in changing forms and iterations but they haven't changed the overall feel of the game.

But if your primary objective is to level up as quickly as possible then absolutely the meta is always changing because the methods of progression have been changing and developing as have the limits and gates and optimal pathways. If leveling up is the end all and be all of your game then in A15-now you spent days spam crafting and spam mining and spam killing all to tick up your levels as fast as possible. Then when traders came out and buying/selling was the optimal path you spammed the traders, and then when questing was added you spammed the quests, and then when magazines were added you spammed the mailboxes and bookstores. It doesn't HAVE to be that way but if you choose to make the game all about leveling up and only the most efficient actions are worthwhile doing to accomplish that goal then of course you are going to think the meta changes every update.

who ever is in charge that determines what gets put in the next alpha definately doesnt seem to follow the previous alphas direction. Alot of times fixs and such are over written and brought back because of all the add and remove of stuff the game does. My belief on it is 2 different people with two different play styles contradicting themselves and alternating between alphas for what they want in it.


You are so off on this but if it makes for a fun story to tell yourself, by all means. The truth is that you and others speculate about what you think the direction is and then somehow convince yourself that your speculation is reality and then when you end up being incorrect, instead of thinking, "Hmmmmm I guessed wrong" you decide that there must be two developers warring with each other and overwriting each other's changes because THAT makes so much more sense.

Seems 2.0 its weather this time.


See, and to me it seems that the 2.0 weather and biome hazards are perfectly in line with the direction TFP started when they began differentiating the biomes by gamestage and lootstage a few years back, followed by having the traders be biome specific, followed by making it so POIs only spawned in certain biomes, followed by needing to "unlock" each trader in turn biome by biome, and now leading to what we have now. 2.0 weather doesn't seem at all to me to be out of line with the direction of the past few years.

 
@Scyris There are a lot of games that do operate the way you said it. I think the new model for building should be like Rust, multiplatform development. That way each system gets the best version of the game it can get.  If anything, I think it could be argued the "worst" thing to happen to gaming was allowing any PC user to have game code. I'd also put forward the idea that Games were better when they were not being built and influenced by what the daily rabble are screaming for. The corporatization of the industry sure didn't help. Those guys think bloated budgets and social bull@%$# should be in the games...at least these guys have not gone that route. I do think that they have done their best to leave options open to the PC side, but, yes, even this game got dumbed down a little for console.

 
Mods are what are keeping 7dtd alive and thats it pretty much. Same can be said of skyrim and fallout, the modders are basically what keeps them alive for so long.
Funny thing is that a few games allowed mods on PS5 but after having used a few of them I returned to vanilla later on. Many mods can absolutely add some fun but only a few offer a real game improvement.

Just an opinion for what it's worth.

 
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Like TFP has made some really weird choices with how things get rendered that just cause performance issues, its so bad that some blocks literally have their own dedicated renderer just for that one block, and thats a big reason for the poor preformance. There is a command you can type in the console in game to stop showing those types of blocks and when I tried it, I got a instant 30+ average fps increase, sadly this also made those blocks disappear (was bushes and iron fences mostly around poi's).


Maybe you remember one of the developers talking about specific blocks being more performance-heavy than others, because they are made out of more triangels than other blocks. Now I would assume bushes need a lot of triangles if you want to have them as real 3D objects. In older versions of 7d2d bushes were just 2 flat planes at a 90 degree angle, with a bush graphic painted on them. Which had a very low amount of triangels. The downside was, if you looked closely they looked really bad.

Now, if I remember correctly (as I haven't played 7days for a few months now) bushes are now real 3D objects. They are made of a lot more triangels and therefore use up a lot more performance to draw them, especially if there are many of them around you. Similar to trees by the way.

So it isn't about missing optimizations on those bushes, it is that TFP decided they wanted better looking bushes and they (and we) pay the price of less FPS.

Adding new even tankier zombies without adding new weapons to fight them with is just a stupid move as its going to make the bullet sponge problem even worse than it already is.


It isn't really clear how they will balance those new zombies. They could easily make the current top zombies have less health and the new zombies get the health of the current top zombies. Or fit the new zombies inbetween instead of making them top zombies. Or make them all the same health but with different elemental attacks. 

I am not sure, but I don't remember them really giving out details about the new zombies, so all of that is speculation.

 
Also I started playing 7dtd on a pc with a geforce 970 and 8gb of ram, so yeah I do know what its like playing the game on a lower end pc. Even my pc today is mid end at best. As for consoles? I couldn't care less about consoles, consoles ruin games as games tend to get dumbed down if a console version is planned and the pc version suffers because of it. Every single time a pc only game is announced to be coming out on console, it starts to get ruined 7dtd is a prime example of this, as it gets dumbed down graphically and gameplay wise extremly often.


You mean graphically dumbed down like the bushes were downgraded from 2 flats to real 3D?

I mean lets be real who would even play this on a console when it lacks mods?


Do you think they all stopped playing it by now?

and the vanilla experience is kinda poor these days that the game isn't really any good without modding it. To counter the arguement of: Well gamers today seem to like it, those gamers have not played 7dtd back when it was actually good back in a16.4 and below, so they have no idea what the game used to be, they only know what it is now. Most players on pc once they get into the mods and overhauls never play vanilla again as its just such a poor experience. They might try vanilla when a new major update hits but shortly after they stop playing till the mods update. Mods are what are keeping 7dtd alive and thats it pretty much. Same can be said of skyrim and fallout, the modders are basically what keeps them alive for so long.


Its so nice that you have the statistics about what most players are doing. I don't have such statistics. I can only say that my friends and I play vanilla and maybe a mod whenever a new alpha comes out. We don't play vanilla because we have to wait for any mods. And we don't play the mod because it is better, but because it is different. It is variety we are looking for, to experience something different.

And because I assume a lot of other players have the same problem of getting tired of playing the same game again and again, I actually agree with you that mods are keeping 7days alive, at least a lot longer than without. Mods add variety and they add games tailored to players that would not like the vanilla game very much and I think you are definitely a prime example of the latter group.

 
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It is good to have choices. You choose to not use mods. I have played tons with no mods but have also played with mods. Again, it's a choice.

Am playing Alpha 20 right now and have about 21 mods installed with it. It's just something to do as I wait for next version to drop.

As long as you get enjoyment out of playing the game, play it how you like. That is the great thing about it.
I'm not against choice. I'm annoyed by some players' complaints that they can't play without mods.

 
I'm not against choice. I'm annoyed by some players' complaints that they can't play without mods.


Sorry if it looked like I was responding to your statement as a negative thing. I wasn't. I was just making the point that it is nice this game lets you make the choice of playing it modded or not.

It's all good. I always play the first release of a alpha unmodded to see how it has progressed...well for that reason and because most times the mods get broken and have to be updated before you can use them lol.

A lot of time it is because of QoL mods of something they may have removed or something I like that they didn't add.

My main two are the hud with water and food levels back on screen and OCB's Stop Fuel Waste.

Anyway again it is so nice to have a choice. :)

 
I'm not against choice. I'm annoyed by some players' complaints that they can't play without mods.


It's just like how some players can't play without a certain level of fps or graphic resolution. Don't be annoyed. Just be grateful that your ability to enjoy a wider range of gaming fun isn't hampered by such things. Forums bring chronic complainers so it can seem like the majority are unhappy (even THEY believe they're in the majority) but tens of thousands of players enjoy the game daily, never post on any forum, and never install a mod, never notice the frame rate, and/or don't care whether the graphics look like a 2025 game or a 2015 game. When those people complain that the game is garbage and unplayable it isn't really a reflection upon the game. It is a reflection of their own obstacles to their own ability to have fun.

The objective data is that this game is a huge hit and, believe you me, the people complaining are way way way more annoyed that so many people are having fun with the game the way it is than you are annoyed by their complaints...lol.

 
It's just like how some players can't play without a certain level of fps or graphic resolution. Don't be annoyed. Just be grateful that your ability to enjoy a wider range of gaming fun isn't hampered by such things. Forums bring chronic complainers so it can seem like the majority are unhappy (even THEY believe they're in the majority) but tens of thousands of players enjoy the game daily, never post on any forum, and never install a mod, never notice the frame rate, and/or don't care whether the graphics look like a 2025 game or a 2015 game. When those people complain that the game is garbage and unplayable it isn't really a reflection upon the game. It is a reflection of their own obstacles to their own ability to have fun.

The objective data is that this game is a huge hit and, believe you me, the people complaining are way way way more annoyed that so many people are having fun with the game the way it is than you are annoyed by their complaints...lol.
I think if you looked broadly across the myriad of games forums, and look what people often complain about and ask for you would find that IF devs listened every time you would end up with many many games all essentially the same damn game, all dull cookie cuttered. This is also something i think that is an issue on consoles atm. so many of the games are very generic and maybe it's just my old ass, but so many look the damn same now.

I've always had great fun, and have great affection for 7DTD in all int's incarnations over the years and am just happy to sit back and see where it's developement takes me!

 
Scyris said:
I mean a tier 5 primitive set has like, 40-50 armor total or something which is pretty damn good. Its been ages since I played vanilla so I don't exactly remember.. I went and checked the xml's Primitive armor has 8-12.3 armor per piece from t1-6 base. with a +-20% randomness thing. so 32 to 49.2 armor. Dunno if the +-20 can go above those base values but I think they can. Which if so, max for t1 is 9.6 armor, and max for t6 would be 14.76. For 38.4 to 59.04 armor. Its also stupidly easy to make and has pretty good armor so its worth upgrading imo. Of course, you'd wanna use a set instead for the bonuses, but other than specific armor parts, its best to just keep privitive on for a while. I think there is a pair of gloves, the preacher gloves that are +damage to undead those are a good upgrade no matter the tier as its more damage to almost all enemies in the game.

I feel the zombies need to have alot less health like less than half they do now, and just be more numerious. I've played mods with massive spawns and performance is fine, so that excuse doesn't really fly. Afterlife uses a mod called walkersim, which has roaming hordes, that roam the map (in the background) and spawn once the player gets close to them, they never spawn in front of you but it simulates the zombies roaming and moving around, and they usually spawn at the edge of the biome and roam inside and around it. If you live close to wasteland and are in the forest you can actually hve radiated hordes wander into forest. These hordes on default settings are often 20-30 zombies in size, and they are very common in all biomes. Preformance doesn't really get hit to bad by this. But the mod maker for afterlife actually optimized the game better than vanilla has it.
I think the idea that @FramFramson had would be perfect. Varied health and I would take it a step farther and do speed/movement style as well. 

Throw in a few low tier Varrants with ether more health, less health and even more damage, ranged attacks. 

Zombies would be a worry again 

 
North Korea's Pink Lady is furiously taking notes...complaints are not real, because the majority do not directly complain, therefore everything must be perfect...and even if they have anything to say...it does not matter.

 
North Korea's Pink Lady is furiously taking notes...complaints are not real, because the majority do not directly complain, therefore everything must be perfect...and even if they have anything to say...it does not matter.


if they have anything to say...we will add it if it fits within our development goals and it is something we are able to assign resources to accomplished

There fixed it for you

 
I'm not against choice. I'm annoyed by some players' complaints that they can't play without mods.


When someone takes cream and sugar with their coffee, is that somehow a complaint against coffee? No. Am I complaining against lettuce when I put Caesar dressing on my salad? Nope.

I don't/won't play without mods because the reason I bought the game was for all the amazing mods.

 
North Korea's Pink Lady is furiously taking notes...complaints are not real, because the majority do not directly complain, therefore everything must be perfect...and even if they have anything to say...it does not matter.
You’re comparing the tyrannical oppression of a nation without any freedom of speech, press, religion, travel, property or individual expression to an online community centered on the luxury item of a video game? That really trivializes the tragedy of North Korea. 
 

Nobody claimed that the game was perfect. But it is a fact that it is playable and enjoyable and fun in its vanilla state to many people —whether the majority or not can’t be determined but ENOUGH people for it to be considered a hit and a success.
 

That doesn’t make complaints not matter. They matter very much to the complainers. They matter very little for convincing the developers to abandon their plans and do what the complainers want them to do.  And they shouldn’t matter at all to other individuals who are enjoying themselves. 

 
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