PC Are Screamers ruining your games?

[meganoth]

I just did a T3 quest in the desert.  The Vic Pawn Shop.  I'm getting near the end, and I hear a screamer.  Note that I have not fired a single gunshot.  I've been getting through it with a Level 1 steel club, and I'm getting a screamer???  I keep going, knowing the screamer can't see me, but soon I can hear more Zs outside.  I get to the end, up in the attic where the end of POI Zs are, and by now the Zs outside have broken in.  I have to jump down and find an exit out of the building.  Once I get outside, I count SIX screamers, and easily 30 Zs that the screamers have summoned.  It was almost like a hoard fight.

On one hand, I was thinking "this is absolutely ridiculous."  On the other hand, after I killed them all, I thought "hmmm, that was kind of fun."

What I don't like about the screamer mechanic is that TFP seems to have changed it so that they will call in their friends even if they can't see you.  In the past, they had to be able to see you to do that.  It would be good to get some clarity on that from TFP.

What this tells me: At least for veterans the screamers aren't bad enough. Why? Because you heard a screamer and continued calmly with your quest as if nothing happened .

Screamers, dog hordes and the environmental hazards when they were dynamic in previous alphas should make the player stop doing whatever he is doing, alarm blaxons should be quacking, panic should set in and some form of disaster recovery plan should be formed and acted upon .

Naturally it is okay that there may be situations where you know you are still safe, just like when a wandering horde's path is obviously not going near you. But if TFP changes stuff around so a situation that was safe before is a danger situation now, that seems okay to me as well, closer to the original intent of a dynamic danger event.

You are a veteran of surviving multiple alphas, you will adapt and next time give that event a little more attention probably. 

Generally I see a problem though for new players because they won't know about the fact that simply running away is a solution to everything and especially to a horde of screamers. Not because of rules of this world but technical rules of zombie despawning in unloaded areas. This is a problem if you are a low level player with a small heap of ammo and a screamer-multiplying horde comes to your crafting base where you have stored all your meagre belongings. Naturally such a player will assume that the zombies will destroy everything if he simply runs away so he fights. But actually he doesn't have a chance once screamers have already multiplied and his actions will probably lead to exactly what he is trying to prevent, losing everything and a complete restart (except for some xp)

 

[zombiehunter]

What this tells me: At least for veterans the screamers aren't bad enough. Why? Because you heard a screamer and continued calmly with your quest as if nothing happened .

Screamers, dog hordes and the environmental hazards when they were dynamic in previous alphas should make the player stop doing whatever he is doing, alarm blaxons should be quacking, panic should set in and some form of disaster recovery plan should be formed and acted upon .

Naturally it is okay that there may be situations where you know you are still safe, just like when a wandering horde's path is obviously not going near you. But if TFP changes stuff around so a situation that was safe before is a danger situation now, that seems okay to me as well, closer to the original intent of a dynamic danger event.

You are a veteran of surviving multiple alphas, you will adapt and next time give that event a little more attention probably. 

Generally I see a problem though for new players because they won't know about the fact that simply running away is a solution to everything and especially to a horde of screamers. Not because of rules of this world but technical rules of zombie despawning in unloaded areas. This is a problem if you are a low level player with a small heap of ammo and a screamer-multiplying horde comes to your crafting base where you have stored all your meagre belongings. Naturally such a player will assume that the zombies will destroy everything if he simply runs away so he fights. But actually he doesn't have a chance once screamers have already multiplied and his actions will probably lead to exactly what he is trying to prevent, losing everything and a complete restart (except for some xp)

Interesting take, and you're right, I do have thousands of hours in this game.

It would still be good to know what the mechanics are around when a screamer calls in her friends, and how a screamer is summoned when you haven't fired a shot?  Does looting create heat?  In this case, that's all I was doing; killing Zs with the club and looting the place.

I know there is a way you can display the heat you're generating, but I don't know how.  Can anybody tell me?

 

[theFlu]

Does looting create heat?  In this case, that's all I was doing; killing Zs with the club and looting the place.

Yes and no; looting itself not really, but breaking blocks does. In a store the most significant being metal shelves - as you empty the shelves, the "full" version is destroyed and downgrades to the "empty" version, that destruction event is considered destroying a metal block. That causes masses of heat, half a dozen shelves and an unlucky roll and you have yourself a fan girl.

 

[Dead Smarty]

as you empty the shelves, the "full" version is destroyed and downgrades to the "empty" version, that destruction event is considered destroying a metal block.

@zombiehunter Work around: Do not empty it completely or drop a lil piece of crap in it to prevent the transition to the empty version.

 

[Riamus]

Interesting take, and you're right, I do have thousands of hours in this game.

It would still be good to know what the mechanics are around when a screamer calls in her friends, and how a screamer is summoned when you haven't fired a shot?  Does looting create heat?  In this case, that's all I was doing; killing Zs with the club and looting the place.

I know there is a way you can display the heat you're generating, but I don't know how.  Can anybody tell me?

As mentioned, certain actions like emptying a store shelf completely will generate heat.  But other actions also generate heat.  A lot of things that you do will generate at least a little heat.  I haven't tested it, mostly because it doesn't matter to me, but I've heard that even jumping can cause heat.  I know that if you turn on debug mode, you can enable a UI screen that shows your heat level and you can easily test to see what is or isn't generating heat.  But heat includes noise, so most things that cause an audio cue will generate heat.  But that heat may be far less than shooting a gun, so you usually don't see screamers as quickly, or at all, when not using a gun.

As far as screamers screaming without seeing you... I'm not sure how accurate that really was, or if it even changed.  Even back in A20 when I started playing, if I was on the top floors of a T5 skyscraper and I heard screamers outside, they'd call in reinforcements without seeing me.  I always thought it was just a timer, where if they didn't see you within a certain amount of time, they called in the reinforcements.  But I never really paid attention to it since it didn't bother me.  Others have said certain blocks don't block "visibility," though I don't if that's the real issue.

 

[RipClaw]

What this tells me: At least for veterans the screamers aren't bad enough. Why? Because you heard a screamer and continued calmly with your quest as if nothing happened .

Depending on the POI, you may not be able to do anything. For example, if you are several levels deep in a bunker without a quick exit to the surface, you first have to clear the rest of the POI. Without line of sight, nothing should actually happen, but apparently screamers, just like cops, have x-ray vision and can also see you behind metre-thick concrete walls.

 

[Vaeliorin]

I was under the impression that screamers, if unable to get to whatever spawned them, would start screaming after a certain period of time.  I know many alphas ago (well, A16 or later) I once scrapped everything in the Water Works, and I ended up with so many screamers that were all screaming that I had zombies falling through the ground into the underground area where I was.

 

[theFlu]

But heat includes noise, so most things that cause an audio cue will generate heat.

That's not really the case; most things will not cause heat, mostly just interacting with metal objects does.

I started mapping stuff out in game, Biggest oddity I came across: magnums cause more heat when silenced  

Plenty of junk in the spoiler, spare your eyes unless you're nerdily inclined.

Spoiler

Basic movement;
Sprinting, panting, moaning;
Falling, Jumping, Falling with damage taken, including breaking a leg
All zero heat

Containers (open, close, loot all):
Trashpiles, bird nests (including destroying with a stone axe), 0
Duffel bags, 0

Opening a car (starting loot) 0.05 (crouched 0.03-0.04)
Closing a car 0.05 (crouched 0.03-0.04)
=> 0.1 each open/close cycle, keeps increasing (don't spam!)
Loot all: 0 (, plus 0.05 for the closing)

Shopping trolley, same as car
Rusty barrel, open/close 0.05
Trash can, 0.05
(=> all metal containers and doors, 0.05 each way)

Punching a rock (the single ones that you can pick up) 0.5 (rock destroy) (0.25 crouched) (just pick em up)
Punching, stone axing a tire or a gore pile, 0
Punching, meleeing, axing etc a coal node, 0 (destroy event 0.5)

Punching a car, 0
Hitting the car with a tool/weapon, 0.1
Exploding a car with a punch, 5.0 (ouch), another with 7.84 (prolly destroyed a hubcap with the explosion)
Breaking a car with a stone axe, or a pick, no boom, 2.84
Stone spear, no boom, 2.84

Holding a torch, 0 over 5 mins
Crafting, scrapping in inventory 0

Melee swinging air, 0
Melee hitting wood, rubber 0
Meleeing metal 0.1

Traders (for protection sound)
Meleeing metal 0.1
Meleeing wood/rubber 0

Opening/closing metal doors 0.5
Opening/closing wood doors 0

Exploding a zed skull, AI off, 0
Hitting a zed, 0
Getting hit by a zed, 0

Firing guns into air:
Pipe pistol, 0.75 per shot, 0.6 while crouched
Pistol, 0.65, 0.52
SMG, 0.65, 0.52 (30 round magdump 20.15, awfully close to screamer at 25)
SMG, silenced, 0.4, 0.32
Magnum, 0.75, 0.6
Magnum, silenced, 0.8, 0.64 ... wth game ???  
Deagle, 0.65, 0.52

Shotties:
Pipe: 0.75, 0.6
Dubsy, 1.0, 0.8
Pump, 1.0, 0.8
Pump, silenced, 0.8, 0.64
Auto, 1.0, 0.8

Rifles:
Pipe, 0.75, 0.6
Hunt, 0.9, 0.72
Lever, 0.75, 0.6
Sniper, 0.9, 0.72

Machine guns:
Pipe, 0.75, 0.6
AK, 0.9, 0.72
Tactical, 0.9, 0.72 (mag dump to 27 => screamer)
M60, 0.9, 0.72 (mag dump ... just expect a screamer =P )

Shooting metal, SMG, magnum: 0.2, 0.13
Shotgun: 0.2 per pellet (2.0 per hit on metal => 5 shots in a cold storage might be enough in total..)
Shotgun on glass, worst case was 8.66 .. when also destroying a poster behind the glass

Shooting wood, 0 (destroy wood separately)
Shooting brick, 0

Hugging cacti, 0

Mining
Shovel/pickaxe on dirt: 0
On iron (and lead): 0.1 (2.84 for breaking)
On other blocks (stone type): 0, (0.5 for breaking)

While crouched
On iron: 0.07 (breaking 1.85)
Stone: 0.5 for breaking, 0.25 crouched

TODO (if I cba):
Mechanized tools

Vehicles
Enter, exit, honk, crash (no destroy)

 

[Javabean867]

@theFlu can you also check mining tools while crouched?

 

[zombiehunter]

@theFlu can you also check mining tools while crouched?

That doesn't keep the screamers away anymore.  It seemed like it used to, but now I can do about 10 hits with the steel pickaxe and lo and behold...a screamer.  It's not bad though, thanks to the cool down period.  Take care of the one or two at the beginning and I'm usually good to go for the rest of the time I'm mining.

Of course this doesn't answer your question to @theFlu, I'm just telling my experience.

 

[Riamus]

Pretty sure crouched still reduces heat gain, but you still get it.  And since screamers can spawn at a much lower heat level, it has less impact.

 

[Javabean867]

Pretty sure crouched still reduces heat gain, but you still get it.  And since screamers can spawn at a much lower heat level, it has less impact.

oh yeah I know, thanks.  TheFlu had a ton of data, but i didn't see any mention on how much it reduced heat production when mining crouched.  He mentioned doing more testing, so i requested that info.

 

[theFlu]

@theFlu can you also check mining tools while crouched?

Yeh, that was one of the things I was supposed to test, got carried away.. editing the list now with mining on basic tools. But in short yes, crouching will reduce your heat output; ignoring the 0.1 for hits and decay, to stay below the first threshold you can break 8-9 iron blocks, while crouching that becomes 13-14. With a practical test I got up to 16 while crouched before hitting the 25 heat.

Not really useful for "real" mining sessions, but since it's free, why not

 

[Javabean867]

Yeh, that was one of the things I was supposed to test, got carried away.. editing the list now with mining on basic tools. But in short yes, crouching will reduce your heat output; ignoring the 0.1 for hits and decay, to stay below the first threshold you can break 8-9 iron blocks, while crouching that becomes 13-14. With a practical test I got up to 16 while crouched before hitting the 25 heat.

Not really useful for "real" mining sessions, but since it's free, why not

You rock!  Thanks for digging into this.  

Early to midgame 16 blocks of metal can last quite a while, so that is good to know.  Once you have the equipment to really have a mining session you can handle the screamers.

 

[theFlu]

Btw, inspired by seeing a couple youtubers lately going "Oh no, a screamer; I need to remain quiet from now on!":

I'd just like to remind everyone that you'll get a 20 minute cooldown when you do spawn one. So when you See one, guns are ON, not off, for the next 20 mins (to be on the safe side, 15 min, at the same location). You won't generate ANY heat in the area; when the timer expires, you'll be sitting at 0 even if you magdump seconds before. The caveat to that is, the CD area is not centered on the heat location, in testing I had an area with 120m CD-space south, but only 25m north; so in a big POI that might be an issue - but seeing a screamer is no reason to tone it down.

 

[Riamus]

Btw, inspired by seeing a couple youtubers lately going "Oh no, a screamer; I need to remain quiet from now on!":

I'd just like to remind everyone that you'll get a 20 minute cooldown when you do spawn one. So when you See one, guns are ON, not off, for the next 20 mins (to be on the safe side, 15 min, at the same location). You won't generate ANY heat in the area; when the timer expires, you'll be sitting at 0 even if you magdump seconds before. The caveat to that is, the CD area is not centered on the heat location, in testing I had an area with 120m CD-space south, but only 25m north; so in a big POI that might be an issue - but seeing a screamer is no reason to tone it down.

I would guess the area is tied to chunks, though I haven't looked into it.  It is interesting that you're at 0 heat.  I thought it just didn't spawn screamers, but you'd still have heat.

 

[theFlu]

I would guess the area is tied to chunks, though I haven't looked into it.

Yeh, the heat UI shows chunk numbers, and heat area changes are in places where the chunk number changes as well. So at least the UI is designed around chunks (no doubt the heat itself as well)

I thought it just didn't spawn screamers, but you'd still have heat.

I didn't really have an opinion going in, but I noticed the individual heat events disappeared whenever an area went on CD, so it warranted a test