PC V2.0 Storms Brewing Dev Diary

HammerDano said:
Are you saying we are not getting dedicated servers? 
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he said "Dedicated servers have security considerations on console they do not take lightly"

to me this is good news and bad news....

The good news is when console gets approved will mean alot of security issues that have been a plague for dedicated will be resolved.

The bad news is some of these issues they haven't been able to figure out for years how to fix..

good bye to hackers for good.

 
@Adam the Waster

Are you talking about introducing classes, like in true survival?

If so do you mean starter classes that you pick on first spawn or since you equated it with a kit do you mean something that reallocates points later during the game?

Fergit'n Elixir allows reallocation of points during gameplay now. The best Class system I remember also has the absolute total points limited. I don't believe

that will go over too well, if players have already been able to max everything. Learning from the past, what has happened when toys were taken away?

It could be a  starter set up if you got more points from the new player quest but 4+1 wouldn't really be enough. It is also great if you are committed to true

rpg roleplay and are willing to stay in that character the entire playthrough and accept the deficits. I think True survival is available but may have stopped at

1.0. The last obstacle here would be the subjective opinion of what skills belong to which class, and what should be limited.

I don't speak for anyone else, but maybe if it were a part of the game from the beginning it would be easier to
integrate. I know I could do it because, I did it for years. Here I play often using the same skills self limiting,
but because of the open option, I have the choice to change up. That would be the big problem, it would restrict choices and options.

 
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Me playing that way definitely changes my game-play experience, it's easy for me because of playing ultima online from 3 months after release.

I like having to play from a deficit. And like you say make meaningful choices and face the consequences of the actions. I actually like true survival,

and even project zomboid for that same configuration. Unfortunately here it would probably be deferred to a mod, because if you read a lot of the

posts. They point toward fastest path and linear direction to attain the highest level of everything. It's not a bad mode of play, but it is highly addictive

if it is favored. And addiction is a hard thing to overcome. I look at this game like my nintendo, I play, win or lose, and press restart so I don't feel that

I'm actually losing anything. But that's a bit atypical.

 
Grandpa Minion said:
he said "Dedicated servers have security considerations on console they do not take lightly"

to me this is good news and bad news....

The good news is when console gets approved will mean alot of security issues that have been a plague for dedicated will be resolved.
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Yes, absolutely.

Grandpa Minion said:
The bad news is some of these issues they haven't been able to figure out for years how to fix..
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Alternative explanation: They just didn't put much energy into looking into them or they would have cost too much network traffic or latency for them to consider.

Grandpa Minion said:
good bye to hackers for good.
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IMHO definitely not. There will always be ways to circumvent the security, especially since a lot of stuff is handled by the clients. This game just wasn't designed with PvP in mind. And even AAA PvP service games struggle to keep hackers off, you can't expect this from a small non-service game like this. What may be possible is to get the security on a level that closed servers are save, but open servers will always be vulnerable to some degree.

 
Just a thought, but will the 4x4 provide any protection from environmental conditions? All of the other vehicles leave occupants exposed, but the truck would at least provide a little shade in the desert and an enclosed cab in the snow (maybe even a heater, if it still works). It would be kind of a cool perk to maxing out your vehicle tree.

 
meganoth said:
There will always be ways to circumvent the security
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yeah i agree.. also the good news is w/e security they fix for console to get approved will make things more secured than what it is now which will lesson the load on the modders and coders to deal with. In this situation "anything is better than nothing" and "the more the marrier" is definately welcomed.

 
Riamus said:
The problem with towns is how tiles and districts work.  They wanted variety in tiles so they didn't look exactly the same everywhere.  That is a good thing.  However, that also means things didn't tend to make logical sense and roads are often a pain in towns.  Add in districts and you have fewer choices for what tiles are available at any given location.  If you add in a lot of custom tiles, it can be better (or worse), depending on whether or not the tiles are more generic or detailed.  More detailed means they probably won't fit as logically. 

I don't think you will ever see town roads being any better in this game.  There just isn't much you can do unless you change all tiles into intersections, making it a grid.  And you can't just do a grid right now if you want all POI to be able to spawn.  Many tier 5 POI can only spawn on caps or other non-intersection tiles.

What faatal was taking about is specifically a single upgradable biome hazard protection "device".  It wouldn't give you bonuses to other things.
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A grid would work in the towns. While AI could help with road navigation. 

 
sillls said:
A grid would work in the towns. While AI could help with road navigation. 
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A grid prevents many POI from ever having the chance to spawn.  For example, some of the skyscrapers will never spawn in a town that uses only a grid layout.

 
meganoth said:
Alternative explanation: They just didn't put much energy into looking into them or they would have cost too much network traffic or latency for them to consider.
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 I don't really know how to put this, but, basically my question would be: so why did they tell us they could do dedicated crossplay? if this has been long standing, and unresolved...is it unfair to ask what the hell is up with that?

 
HammerDano said:
 I don't really know how to put this, but, basically my question would be: so why did they tell us they could do dedicated crossplay? if this has been long standing, and unresolved...is it unfair to ask what the hell is up with that?
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First of all: I was only speculating not presenting facts in my previous post.

Secondly: Assuming they didn't do it before because of disadvantages being greater than the advantages, now the sum of advantages may be greater. 

The current problems with getting crossplay approved seem to be problems that **normally** can be solved just by investing hours of work, just that there is no specific end in sight. 

Probably it works like this: 

1) TFP sends the game for approval to Sonysoft. Sonysoft say "not secure enough" and either give no details or they point to where they see a problem.

2) TFP patches the game and adds a security measure, sends the game again for approval. Sonysoft say "not secure enough" and either give no details or point to another place where they see a problem. Loop to 2) until Sonysoft is happy or you loose patience

This is also how it often works for App developers for smartphones when they need approval from Apple.

 
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meganoth said:
First of all: I am only speculating. This isn't fact.

Secondly: Assuming they didn't do it before because of disadvantages being greater than the advantages, now the sum of advantages may be greater. 

The current problems with getting crossplay approved seem to be problems that **normally** can be solved just by investing hours of work, just that there is no specific end in sight. 

Probably it works like this: 

1) TFP sends the game for approval to Sonysoft. Sonysoft say "not secure enough" and either give no details or they point to where they see a problem.

2) TFP patches the game and adds a security measure, sends the game again for approval. Sonysoft say "not secure enough" and either give no details or point to another place where they see a problem. Loop to 2) until Sonysoft is happy or you loose patience

This is also how it often works for App developers for smartphones when they need approval from Apple.
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thank you,

I get there is no point in digging down on this...I won't get answers and it will just @%$# people off.

 
HammerDano said:
thank you,

I get there is no point in digging down on this...I won't get answers and it will just @%$# people off.
Click to expand...


You are getting answers, I just don't think they are the answers you are wanting.

To add onto meganoth's response - there are a lot of moving parts that have to come together in order for these things to be released for console.  faatal does PC development and we have dedicated servers for 7 days to Die already because the process was already started for PCs.  However, they cannot just flip a switch and have the same setup working on consoles without doing work on it prior to submitting the updates to Microsoft / Sony for review / approval process.

I am not a game developer, I just do mods as a hobby and get into some coding at work as stretch goals that are not tied to my main work responsibilities, but just that exposure makes me appreciate what game developers have to do to make their dreams / goals / targets a reality.  Sometimes you can predict what a change is going to do and what other changes you have to make to support the targeted change; other times you find issues that you were not expecting and then you have to start root causing those issues and coming up with counter measures to fix them - while not introducing other issues down the road.

 
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Riamus said:
A grid prevents many POI from ever having the chance to spawn.  For example, some of the skyscrapers will never spawn in a town that uses only a grid layout.
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No what I mean is make the town grid like. Like most towns would be. 

Another thing that I would like to see changed on RG maps is the rivers. They don't really go anywhere. They are more like ponds shaped like snakes. 

I see several of these ponds at the edge of towns and they each have a bridge going over it. 

I think it would be better if each river enters from an edge of a map and either leaves on another side or ends up in a lake. 

Again, AI could help with this in RG. 

Also, I just found out that you can fly upside down with a bike. Sadly I only managed to do it once but it was so cool. 😄

I took damage to which almost never happens. 

 
to hell with Sony...lol.. They never been pro-cross play... they're method is "if you wanna play with your friends, get a playstation or go away"... this attempts to manipulate people to buy their console. Microsoft is like "come on in and sing kum-bah-ya with us"  - hence cross play with desktops and laptops and xbox and whatever platforms... many servers are windows PC based...... so it's favorable for Microsoft to be very welcoming cause they know they have the market....
Sony is a competitor, so they're applying whatever limited tactics they can do. 
IMO - TFP should drop Sony to avoid any additional drama.. And i'm Pro-Windows cause as a computer technician, they keep me employeed fixing issues /  troubleshooting and give me customers... so everyone's rubbing eachothers backs .... just not Sony....lol

HammerDano said:
thank you,

I get there is no point in digging down on this...I won't get answers and it will just @%$# people off.
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Greetings Earthlings... 

To hell with Sony...lol.. They never been pro-cross play friendly ... they're method is "if you wanna play with your friends, get a playstation or go away"... this attempts to manipulate people to buy their console. Microsoft is like "come on in and sing kum-bah-yah with us"  - hence cross play with desktops and laptops and xbox and whatever platforms... many servers are windows PC based...... so it's favorable for Microsoft to be very welcoming cause they know they have the market....
Sony is a competitor, so they're applying whatever limited tactics they can do., including power trips and potentially limiting crossplay... to make it hard for folk to join their world.
IMO - TFP should drop Sony to avoid any additional drama.. And i'm Pro-Windows cause as a computer technician, they keep me employeed fixing issues /  troubleshooting and give me customers... so everyone's rubbing eachothers backs .... just not Sony....lol

 
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sillls said:
No what I mean is make the town grid like. Like most towns would be. 

Another thing that I would like to see changed on RG maps is the rivers. They don't really go anywhere. They are more like ponds shaped like snakes. 

I see several of these ponds at the edge of towns and they each have a bridge going over it. 

I think it would be better if each river enters from an edge of a map and either leaves on another side or ends up in a lake. 

Again, AI could help with this in RG. 

Also, I just found out that you can fly upside down with a bike. Sadly I only managed to do it once but it was so cool. 😄

I took damage to which almost never happens. 
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The problem is that many POI cannot spawn on the intersection tiles, which are required if you want it to be grid like.  So it's not an option if you want those POI unless you want to go through and change all those POI.  Also, even though many cities are grid like, there are many that are not.  You may live where it's grid like.  I don't.  And I've been to a lot of cities and towns across the US that aren't grid like.  Granted, the roads in the game are often worse than you'd see pretty much anywhere, but it's not unusual at all to have roads that aren't in a grid pattern.  Regardless, you cannot do a grid like town in the game if you want all the POI to have a chance of spawning.  It just isn't an option without changing a lot of POI.

As far as rivers go, they are stamps.  That means they can resize them, but cannot change how they look.  They can add more stamps, but they'll also be a set shape.  faatal has commented that he'd be interested in generating rivers instead of using stamps, but that it's a low priority and may not happen.  If you want more realistic rivers, you could use Teragon to make maps.

 
BFT2020 said:
You are getting answers, I just don't think they are the answers you are wanting.

To add onto meganoth's response - there are a lot of moving parts that have to come together in order for these things to be released for console.  faatal does PC development and we have dedicated servers for 7 days to Die already because the process was already started for PCs.  However, they cannot just flip a switch and have the same setup working on consoles without doing work on it prior to submitting the updates to Microsoft / Sony for review / approval process.

I am not a game developer, I just do mods as a hobby and get into some coding at work as stretch goals that are not tied to my main work responsibilities, but just that exposure makes me appreciate what game developers have to do to make their dreams / goals / targets a reality.  Sometimes you can predict what a change is going to do and what other changes you have to make to support the targeted change; other times you find issues that you were not expecting and then you have to start root causing those issues and coming up with counter measures to fix them - while not introducing other issues down the road.
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Yes, being told there is no info coming from the source, here is some well thought out speculation...is less than satisfying. It does qualify as being an "answer". I apologize to Meganoth for that first sentence, it was not meant as a slight towards them. I appreciate you took time.

I said there was no point in digging down on this so you felt I needed a lecture?

I'll return the favour: We were told, ad nauseam, that TFP could do crossplay. I pointed out that being "able" might be true, but, it was not telling us what requirements TFP were not meeting. No sense in pointing out this would have been a good time to tell us, because..."they don't owe you communication". So, to hear it implied that TFP knew they had hurdles they had not overcome for PC security yet...and apparently never bothered to fix them or could not...does leave me wondering wtf? If they could not...it puts serious doubt console will get dedicated anytime soon if ever...that's not okay.

From my point of view on the console side: this roll out feels half assed to me. This site...was not really ready for console. ie bugs reporting. there is no moderator/problem solver for console yet...games been out for a few minutes now. 

I could list out the things console should have had on launch, but, that's just an argument about "your opinion isn't the same as mine".

TFP agreed with me...they said they didn't think it would smart to launch without them, back in that 20222 interview on Gun's, nerds, and Steel.

but they did anyway.

I am not getting answers. That does not mean I am not getting responses...and I acknowledge that.

firewalker101 said:
to hell with Sony...lol.. They never been pro-cross play... they're method is "if you wanna play with your friends, get a playstation or go away"... this attempts to manipulate people to buy their console. Microsoft is like "come on in and sing kum-bah-ya with us"  - hence cross play with desktops and laptops and xbox and whatever platforms... many servers are windows PC based...... so it's favorable for Microsoft to be very welcoming cause they know they have the market....
Sony is a competitor, so they're applying whatever limited tactics they can do. 
IMO - TFP should drop Sony to avoid any additional drama.. And i'm Pro-Windows cause as a computer technician, they keep me employeed fixing issues /  troubleshooting and give me customers... so everyone's rubbing eachothers backs .... just not Sony....lol

Greetings Earthlings... 

To hell with Sony...lol.. They never been pro-cross play friendly ... they're method is "if you wanna play with your friends, get a playstation or go away"... this attempts to manipulate people to buy their console. Microsoft is like "come on in and sing kum-bah-yah with us"  - hence cross play with desktops and laptops and xbox and whatever platforms... many servers are windows PC based...... so it's favorable for Microsoft to be very welcoming cause they know they have the market....
Sony is a competitor, so they're applying whatever limited tactics they can do., including power trips and potentially limiting crossplay... to make it hard for folk to join their world.
IMO - TFP should drop Sony to avoid any additional drama.. And i'm Pro-Windows cause as a computer technician, they keep me employeed fixing issues /  troubleshooting and give me customers... so everyone's rubbing eachothers backs .... just not Sony....lol
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I appreciate your enthusiasm, but, how do we know it is Sony, or just Sony? I get that given public sentiments, THAT was a very popular explanation. It just doesn't mean it is true. Everybody agreed with fataal that most people don't know what happens behind the scenes...well? this is the same thing. imo


 
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