New bow mod or bow interaction

[CosmicHorroh]

Add a weapon mod or ability for bows that let's you shoot 2 or 3 arrows at a time.

You can press reload multiple times adding a arrow each time up to 3. Giving you control over how many arrows you want to shoot.

Each additional arrow decreases accuracy but increases damage by a certain %

It's actually pretty realistic to be able to shoot multiple arrows and I feel it would bring bows a little closer to other ranged weapon types

 

[zztong]

Excuse my ignorance, but doesn't putting another arrow on mean you're dividing the power by 2, and a third arrow would be dividing the power by 3? If so, wouldn't armor become more effective and the drop due to range be more pronounced?

 

[CosmicHorroh]

Excuse my ignorance, but doesn't putting another arrow on mean you're dividing the power by 2, and a third arrow would be dividing the power by 3? If so, wouldn't armor become more effective and the drop due to range be more pronounced?

The cons would be

More stamina consumption

More resources consumed 

Less accuracy 

More drop off

Less damage to armored targets

Pros:

more damage overall 

Can hit multiple targets at close range

Good for groups of weaker enemies or "shotgunning" at point blank range

Can use 1 arrow for more accuracy and damage for armored targets and 2 or 3 arrows for weaker enemies. 

Would provide good versatility and would be very fun paired with fire/explosive arrows. 

 

[Riamus]

I'm curious if you are looking for something that is realistic or just arcade?  Now, I can't say what an experienced archer could do if they shot multiple arrows at once, but if you think about a bow, even if you did what is pictured in that Lord of the Rings screenshot, your arrows are going to essentially shoot along a vertical line.  The top arrow will hit higher than the bottom arrow.  And the same patter will apply for any additional arrows.  The end result?  You could potentially hit a single target with multiple shots, but the chance of hitting multiple targets is almost zero.  Add in the time it takes to load that many arrows, and you'd probably be able to shoot close to the same number of arrows individually, with more accuracy, and with more targets than if you did a multishot option.  Again, I don't know what an experienced archer could do.  I'm basing this just on what relatively little knowledge of archery I have.  But it doesn't seem like anything that makes any real sense.  That movie was clearly not realistic when Legolas did that.  Now, I know there are bows/crossbows that can handle multiple shots.  But what real gain do you get?  How quickly can you shoot compared to individual shots?  How is your accuracy?  Does it even make any sense?

So, are you looking for something that's entirely arcade?  Nothing wrong if that is what you want, of course.  But it doesn't seem like something worth adding to vanilla.

Maybe someone who is an experienced archer could verify how this would work in real life (not just someone who shoots arrows now and then, but someone who actually competes and does well).  I'd be interested to know.  The following are the negative effects of multiple shots from ChatGPT, which may or may not be all that accurate.

• Reduced Accuracy – Controlling multiple arrows means each one is less precise, making it hard to aim properly.
  
• Weaker Shot Power – The energy of the bow is split between arrows, reducing their range and penetration.
  
• Inconsistent Flight Paths – Arrows may not leave the bow at the same speed or angle, causing unpredictable spread.
  
• Difficult to Execute – Requires exceptional skill, technique, and custom arrows to work effectively.
  
• Not Practical for Combat or Hunting – Historically, archers relied on rapid single shots rather than multiple arrows, as speed and accuracy were more important than quantity.
  

It certain doesn't seem like a good option unless it's just an arcade style option for fun.

 

[CosmicHorroh]

I'm curious if you are looking for something that is realistic or just arcade?  Now, I can't say what an experienced archer could do if they shot multiple arrows at once, but if you think about a bow, even if you did what is pictured in that Lord of the Rings screenshot, your arrows are going to essentially shoot along a vertical line.  The top arrow will hit higher than the bottom arrow.  And the same patter will apply for any additional arrows.  The end result?  You could potentially hit a single target with multiple shots, but the chance of hitting multiple targets is almost zero.  Add in the time it takes to load that many arrows, and you'd probably be able to shoot close to the same number of arrows individually, with more accuracy, and with more targets than if you did a multishot option.  Again, I don't know what an experienced archer could do.  I'm basing this just on what relatively little knowledge of archery I have.  But it doesn't seem like anything that makes any real sense.  That movie was clearly not realistic when Legolas did that.  Now, I know there are bows/crossbows that can handle multiple shots.  But what real gain do you get?  How quickly can you shoot compared to individual shots?  How is your accuracy?  Does it even make any sense?

So, are you looking for something that's entirely arcade?  Nothing wrong if that is what you want, of course.  But it doesn't seem like something worth adding to vanilla.

Maybe someone who is an experienced archer could verify how this would work in real life (not just someone who shoots arrows now and then, but someone who actually competes and does well).  I'd be interested to know.  The following are the negative effects of multiple shots from ChatGPT, which may or may not be all that accurate.

• Reduced Accuracy – Controlling multiple arrows means each one is less precise, making it hard to aim properly.
  
• Weaker Shot Power – The energy of the bow is split between arrows, reducing their range and penetration.
  
• Inconsistent Flight Paths – Arrows may not leave the bow at the same speed or angle, causing unpredictable spread.
  
• Difficult to Execute – Requires exceptional skill, technique, and custom arrows to work effectively.
  
• Not Practical for Combat or Hunting – Historically, archers relied on rapid single shots rather than multiple arrows, as speed and accuracy were more important than quantity.
  

It certain doesn't seem like a good option unless it's just an arcade style option for fun.

It would be more on the arcade side of things rather then realistic but it's not entirely unrealistic. 

Also you could preload the arrows in-between combat or i have seen videos of people being able to draw 2 or 3 arrows at once. 

It could be a weapon mod or special arrows that enables it to work.

I just really like bows and hate how pretty much useless they become after early game. 

 

[Dead Smarty]

I just really like bows and hate how pretty much useless they become after early game. 

With archery maxed out and most steath bonusses applied it only takes 3 to 5 shots to kill wolves and bears at night with tier 6 compound and stone arrows, most zeds are 1 or 2 shot. Not that useless to me.

 

[CosmicHorroh]

With archery maxed out and most steath bonusses applied it only takes 3 to 5 shots to kill wolves and bears at night with tier 6 compound and stone arrows, most zeds are 1 or 2 shot. Not that useless to me.

Gunslinger is better. You get 2 different weapons off the same perk with 2 different easily mass produced ammo. And they are much easier to use in any situation including horde nights. 

I can see crossbows being good for sneaking bosses but that's about it. And again it's just as easy if not more so just getting gunslinger.

Gunslinger is in the same exact category and arguably a better option. Especially when clearing higher tier quests and Pois

I don't really see a situation where bows are better vs. Any other gun in the game after you can sustain ammo. 

 

[Riamus]

I'm not a bow user in the game (I normally don't use bows in any games), but I know there are many people who like them.  They are mostly for stealth players, though.  The benefit of using them is the lack of sound that a stealth player looks for.  And even for someone who isn't stealth, it helps to avoid screamers appearing at a POI if you can keep the sound down.  But it's more about what people like to use.

I know there are games out there where weapons are little more than just skins and you can use pretty much anything equally well.  There isn't anything wrong with that kind of game, and I've played those myself now and then.  But my personal opinion is that this game is better off having the different weapons have different uses and values.  You'll never get the damage output and speed with a bow that you'd get from a fully automatic weapon, which I think is fine.  Different melee weapons have different situations where they are better or worse than other melee weapons.  A sniper rifle (or even most rifles) may be great for taking out zombies from a distance, but aren't much good when clearing the majority of a POI.  Having weapons that offer different pros and cons gives you a reason to choose different weapons for different situations.  Of course, most people just pick two or three that they like best and ignore the pros and cons rather than changing weapons (to weapons other than those 2-3 weapons) based on the situation.  But I still think having those pros and cons is good.

Even so, I don't see any reason not to have a mod to install in a bow to allow multiple shots, as long as it has significant drawbacks (accuracy, speed, damage per arrow).

 

[CosmicHorroh]

I'm not a bow user in the game (I normally don't use bows in any games), but I know there are many people who like them.  They are mostly for stealth players, though.  The benefit of using them is the lack of sound that a stealth player looks for.  And even for someone who isn't stealth, it helps to avoid screamers appearing at a POI if you can keep the sound down.  But it's more about what people like to use.

I know there are games out there where weapons are little more than just skins and you can use pretty much anything equally well.  There isn't anything wrong with that kind of game, and I've played those myself now and then.  But my personal opinion is that this game is better off having the different weapons have different uses and values.  You'll never get the damage output and speed with a bow that you'd get from a fully automatic weapon, which I think is fine.  Different melee weapons have different situations where they are better or worse than other melee weapons.  A sniper rifle (or even most rifles) may be great for taking out zombies from a distance, but aren't much good when clearing the majority of a POI.  Having weapons that offer different pros and cons gives you a reason to choose different weapons for different situations.  Of course, most people just pick two or three that they like best and ignore the pros and cons rather than changing weapons (to weapons other than those 2-3 weapons) based on the situation.  But I still think having those pros and cons is good.

Even so, I don't see any reason not to have a mod to install in a bow to allow multiple shots, as long as it has significant drawbacks (accuracy, speed, damage per arrow).

I wouldn't want anything added that was too unrealistic either. 

But I also feel like bows are not the best solution in almost any situation which kinda sucks. They are really great for early game though. 

Or maybe they could add higher tier arrows? There is only 1 type of flame and explosive arrow. Maybe they could add more. Like bigger explosive arrows or fire arrows that can set fire to nearby targets.

 

[Riamus]

I wouldn't want anything added that was too unrealistic either. 

But I also feel like bows are not the best solution in almost any situation which kinda sucks. They are really great for early game though. 

Or maybe they could add higher tier arrows? There is only 1 type of flame and explosive arrow. Maybe they could add more. Like bigger explosive arrows or fire arrows that can set fire to nearby targets.

Additional ammo could be a good option.  But I don't think they'll do anything that lets fire spread.  The game is already being carefully set up to limit FPS problems because of it being a fully voxel world, which puts a far larger strain on a computer than a normal game world.  And fire greatly reduces FPS.  I know there is (or was) a mod that allowed fire to spread, and for those with really good computers, they can enjoy it.  But I don't think you'll see it in vanilla.

 

[CosmicHorroh]

Additional ammo could be a good option.  But I don't think they'll do anything that lets fire spread.  The game is already being carefully set up to limit FPS problems because of it being a fully voxel world, which puts a far larger strain on a computer than a normal game world.  And fire greatly reduces FPS.  I know there is (or was) a mod that allowed fire to spread, and for those with really good computers, they can enjoy it.  But I don't think you'll see it in vanilla.

I was thinking more like a molotov. 

I don't think it would be very hard to add or any more taxing on the system.

 

[BFT2020]

I use bows all the time, even towards end game play.  I haven't had any issues with them as of now, other than flaming arrows being harder to use (aim).

Stealth play is exactly what they are perfect for.  Max out Archery and Hidden strike perk, along with a Tier 3 bow (I use the regular bows more than the crossbows) with the appropriate mods on them - 1 shot kills on even the hardest zombies.  Though I typically only play up to Survivalist so I don't know if this still applies to Insane difficulty.

 

[Dead Smarty]

Gunslinger is better. You get 2 different weapons off the same perk with 2 different easily mass produced ammo. And they are much easier to use in any situation including horde nights. 

I can see crossbows being good for sneaking bosses but that's about it. And again it's just as easy if not more so just getting gunslinger.

Gunslinger is in the same exact category and arguably a better option. Especially when clearing higher tier quests and Pois

I don't really see a situation where bows are better vs. Any other gun in the game after you can sustain ammo. 

"Better" is subjective depending on your playstyle. It is also not "useless" as you stated initialy.

 

[CosmicHorroh]

I use bows all the time, even towards end game play.  I haven't had any issues with them as of now, other than flaming arrows being harder to use (aim).

Stealth play is exactly what they are perfect for.  Max out Archery and Hidden strike perk, along with a Tier 3 bow (I use the regular bows more than the crossbows) with the appropriate mods on them - 1 shot kills on even the hardest zombies.  Though I typically only play up to Survivalist so I don't know if this still applies to Insane difficulty.

I really liked using bows too but after investing into the gunslinger i could take all my points out of bows and stealth. The vulture takes out weaker zombies pretty well and the smg5 melts bosses. 

Stealth can be great if playing with other people but playing solo i feel like it requires too much investment.

Unless you are using explosive arrows you can't really kill as fast as the smg5 or vulture. And it makes a huge difference on horde nights. I also tried explosive arrows on a day 40+ horde night and i felt like grenades would have done more damage. 

Plus stealth is inefficient when you can run and gun. 

Just from my experience bows are really good early game and maybe even mid game because the ammo is relatively easy and cheap to craft. Otherwise it gets beat in damage and kill time by almost everything else. 

Also with bows I struggled hard against higher tier PoIs and horde nights where you face a large group of zombies in small spaces. 

Also using bows and stealth you have 3 different things to invest points into.

While gunslinger only requires 1 and is good for almost every single situation and you can still invest into stealth.

Something to consider for solo players

 

[zztong]

But I also feel like bows are not the best solution in almost any situation which kinda sucks. They are really great for early game though.

We have a different take on things. I use a bow at all stages of the game. They compliment my stealth play very well when clearing a POI, better than a silenced gun. The ammo for bows is cheap and easy to make. Collecting feathers produces eggs that support my cooking. They're great for hunting at night, clearing Zs and harvesting meat from deer, wolves, dire wolves, and bears with stealth. Using a bow lets me conserve gun ammo for horde night.

 

[CosmicHorroh]

We have a different take on things. I use a bow at all stages of the game. They compliment my stealth play very well when clearing a POI, better than a silenced gun. The ammo for bows is cheap and easy to make. Collecting feathers produces eggs that support my cooking. They're great for hunting at night, clearing Zs and harvesting meat from deer, wolves, dire wolves, and bears with stealth. Using a bow lets me conserve gun ammo for horde night.

Also about the stealth part. I don't see the point of investing into it when there are scripted events in pretty much every PoI specifically for countering sneaking. 

It is good for getting a good shot on bosses but I really just feel it's a waste of points. 

I want to use bows more but it's hard to when guns just feel better to use overall.

I still feel like we could use more arrow types or something. 

 

[meganoth]

Stealth can be great if playing with other people but playing solo i feel like it requires too much investment.

Its the other way round in my observation. With friends stealth is usually worthless as they trample in and wake up everyone and mostly kill the zombies before I can even reach the scene slowly stealthing around. I can use stealth only when I quest separately or play real single player.

really liked using bows too but after investing into the gunslinger i could take all my points out of bows and stealth. The vulture takes out weaker zombies pretty well and the smg5 melts bosses.

Unless you are using explosive arrows you can't really kill as fast as the smg5 or vulture. And it makes a huge difference on horde nights. I also tried explosive arrows on a day 40+ horde night and i felt like grenades would have done more damage. 

Plus stealth is inefficient when you can run and gun. 

No contest here. Most efficient weapon is the shotgun anyway. It seems TFP is not interested in making all weapons balanced, they want to make each attribute (AGI, CON, STR) balanced, but even that isn't completely true, a dev told me once that STR is supposed to be the easiest class, ideal for novice players.

If you want to play stealth you will be fine in lower levels as you said yourself. In higher levels you should have the points to invest into gunslinger as well, but it is your choice then if you want to switch over to smg or continue to use stealth and use the smg/vulture as an oh-@%$# weapon.

Also about the stealth part. I don't see the point of investing into it when there are scripted events in pretty much every PoI specifically for countering sneaking. 

The scripted events also have a "stealth" solution. In older alphas it was just too easy to just stealth through all pois and kill everything on first or second shot. Whether that is fair or not (compared to shotgun  ) they added this to disrupt the monotony. So if you get to such a scripted event, run back and when out of sight hide somewhere. You can even throw stones to disorient zombies that simply follow your trail without knowing where you are and might spot you. If that succeeds you can simply stealth back and kill them one by one.

The only real danger situation without a stealth solution is if a stealther drops down into small rooms through broken floors. Don't do that , and if you do get out the "oh-@%$#" weapon

 

[Riamus]

They have made the game so not all weapons are ideal in all situations.  Rifles aren't great for clearing POI, but work well for the occasional long distance shots in a POI and work well for hunting or even horde night, depending on your preferences.  Sledgehammers are great for group combat, but are generally not as effective for one on one as some other melee weapons.  M60 will wipe things out quickly, but uses a crazy amount of ammo.  Bows are most useful for stealth or hunting, though can be used in POIs and on horde night if you like them for that.  This is how they want the game.  They aren't making it a game where every weapon is equally useful in every situation.  There's nothing wrong with that.  Even with them not making that kind of game, probably every weapon has players who prefer that over anything else.

 

[CosmicHorroh]

They have made the game so not all weapons are ideal in all situations.  Rifles aren't great for clearing POI, but work well for the occasional long distance shots in a POI and work well for hunting or even horde night, depending on your preferences.  Sledgehammers are great for group combat, but are generally not as effective for one on one as some other melee weapons.  M60 will wipe things out quickly, but uses a crazy amount of ammo.  Bows are most useful for stealth or hunting, though can be used in POIs and on horde night if you like them for that.  This is how they want the game.  They aren't making it a game where every weapon is equally useful in every situation.  There's nothing wrong with that.  Even with them not making that kind of game, probably every weapon has players who prefer that over anything else.

That's fair.

 

[zztong]

Also about the stealth part. I don't see the point of investing into it when there are scripted events in pretty much every PoI specifically for countering sneaking. 

I respect the "calculus" you use. Everyone must weigh the pro's and con's themselves and find what they enjoy.

Sure, Stealth isn't a 100% effective thing, but it can be a 90% effective thing if you learn to play it. There's an investment in points, but also in player technique. "Crouch and Go" only gets you so far. If you're not listening for your own footsteps, then you're not fully tuned into Stealth. Also, sometimes you can shake the zombies from those scripted events and come back and get them with Stealth.

That said, I'm not a "bow only" player. I'll have a weapon of each ammo type on me. I can do a bow-only horde night, for instance. While it is fun, you don't get a lot of kills compared to using guns.