PC v1.x PvP Open Discussion

[Dead Smarty]

Isn't it funny when both sides are convinced certain features are "theirs" or "our", to me that means that the game is whatever you want it to be.
Have fun lol

 

[theFlu]

Isn't it funny when both sides are convinced certain features are "theirs" or "our", to me that means that the game is whatever you want it to be.

I wasn't even taking a side, I was asking how is "PvE raiding" related to land claims ... and what it actually is, but w/e

 

[Grandpa Minion]

"PvE raiding" 

There is no such thing as pve raiding...., raiding is exclusive to pvp. To get raided means another player has raided you and thats 100% pvp. Maybe when they add bandits in a35 than bandits can raid their base.

 

[theFlu]

There is no such thing as pve raiding...., raiding is exclusive to pvp.

Yup, that's what I think as well, but I wanted to hear what SylenThunder means, as he's obviously talking something completely different...

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

It´s not PvP exclusive, it´s done or at least trying to be done by griefers on any public server. Someone raiding a base on a PvE server doesn´t make it a PvP server.

 

[Riamus]

I think it's just semantics.  Most people consider PVP to be player attacking player, because that is usually the case.  However, anything that is player versus player, which includes raiding a base, is still technically PVP.  In the end, it doesn't even really matter whether or not someone considers non-violent player versus player stuff to be PVP or not.

 

[theFlu]

Someone raiding a base on a PvE server doesn´t make it a PvP server.

This is true, the intent of the server doesn't shift with the actions of a single player - but I can't say those zombies are too concerned about my best efforts to grief them. Griefing itself is purely a pvp action, even if involuntary on one of the parties.

 

[HammerDano]

This is true, the intent of the server doesn't shift with the actions of a single player - but I can't say those zombies are too concerned about my best efforts to grief them. Griefing itself is purely a pvp action, even if involuntary on one of the parties.

does it qualify as "griefing" when it is not a player? or if you randomly spread mines not knowing who what may hit them? or is the second one just chaos? 

 

[theFlu]

does it qualify as "griefing" when it is not a player?

Griefing, causing grief, if the target doesn't have the capacity to experience grief, I don't think you can grief it.

 

[Dead Smarty]

It´s not PvP exclusive, it´s done or at least trying to be done by griefers on any public server. Someone raiding a base on a PvE server doesn´t make it a PvP server.

Griefing does not belong on PvE, this is a bad example. What could be a better example is people setting up raiding bases or mazes to chalenge or entertain others on PvE.

does it qualify as "griefing" when it is not a player? or if you randomly spread mines not knowing who what may hit them? or is the second one just chaos? 

Griefing NPC's, wildlife or so is just not possible. Dropping random mines is chaos, it depends on how you deal with the victems if it is griefing or not but it is a thin line.

 

[Testiclese]

cracks me up that pve players dont think pvp is alive in this game.. go right now to battlemetrics or gametracker search for yourself that in fact pvp is alive and always has been... the biggest servers with population that are even around is pvp and has been that way for as long as i can remember. The problem is for last 10 years pvp players requests have been pushed to back of the line waiting for simple things to get fixed while pve players request are being met every alpha.  But yeah to say pvp is non existing would be ridiculous and this is where the pimp brothers dropped the ball. Like i said earlier our server alone only over the years have had over 250,000 players join it. Millions oView attachment 33326f people who play 7d2d play pvp, why ignore them?

I would say that it is functionally dead. Your exact source listed less than 40 PVP servers with players and the total population at the moment is: 98 people. On a good day like you showed sure you might be talking about 200 or even 300 people.

Sit back and ask yourself why 20,000 people log in every day... and after 10 years most of them think multiplayer isn't worth their time.
Why servers the size of friends' groups need Cloudflare protections and can't be a local machine b/c it would be compromised.
Why there is no sense of community.

It also says something about the game style and community to have functionally such a low player density of average 2-3 people per server. Despite having so much room I think it's just concentrated down people that are too toxic and has poisoned the well.

And sure "hackers and cheaters" didn't help and that whole EOS issue, but I think it runs deeper.

Here's my rant on it:

PVE is pretty much rampant griefers with no way to deal with them, and PVP is just those same griefers who RP serial killers and murder hobos who want to do offline raids. It's pretty devoid of clans because servers are inconsistent, wipes destroy everything, and the community aspect is functionally DOA with probably no thanks that the endless stream of content updates and fixes trying to get the game out of alpha upending everything because they are actually necessary.

Constant wipes are the only things that make the gameplay feasible, but that wipes everything including players and factions and restarts the cycle of raiding. Waking up to go to your world of infinite resources and find your base gutted during an offline raid for absolutely no purpose is pretty demoralizing. Where is the fun in moving past that and wasting your time joining into the human centipede of no life degenerate gameplay where you constantly get crapped on only to crap on the next unfortunate soul down the line until you grind out 50-75 levels and hundreds of books to ACTUALLY defend yourself.

Are you surprised that people aren't lining up to jump into a world to survive the undead apocalypse, just to find it is essentially full of serial killers, murder hobos, and bandits that can take everything that they own because having a real life basically puts players in a coma?

I'm coming from your server and the fact that there are no additional offline protections or just block immunity just means a lot of gameplay is stalking people and waiting for them to go offline with the player list. Your only defense against other players is to either be online 24hrs a day, constantly live in fear and an unmarked rat hole, or survive being @%$# on for weeks on end to finally unlock GOOD base defenses. The base defense in the game was made for brainless zombies and to keep the players 1:1 playtime on pace with the game stage. Instead, a 24/7 server can see the game stage advance 4x to 10x+ faster depending on how often someone gets online.

There is zero point in online vs online fights because keeping your armor and hotbar means you can go to their base slap a bedroll nearby and camp them out with a sniper and 1000+ rounds of ammo and either standoff while you breach them or spawn kill them until they quit. Their only option is to bedroll away and get in long enough to hotbar items and die to put them in a chest by their new bedroll. Death penalty has a cap so there is no penalty to dying for hours on end and your back in 10 seconds. Low level players are absolutely hosed b/c there is no defenses they can use to be safe. They get to spend weeks learning their lcb literally broadcasts their exact location to anyone with sense to sprint around with a wood block. And they need to understand that no matter what they WILL get wiped by higher level players. I learned that at lvl 22 with a stone axe getting one tap clapped by a kitted M60.

Tell me:
Would you live in a town that send a text message to everyone the days you are home and when you leave your hose? Would you be surprised when you got robbed?
Would you make a house with 9ft thick concrete walls when a lone man could tear through in what seems like the time it takes to cut a catalytic converter off your car with a tool made for ice and gravelly dirt at best?
Would you hide EVERYTHING in a bunker full stealth and install a security system that literally yells "My house is this 24x24 square, dig here!" to any passerby?
Would you have ANY chance where walking corpses meat mits could tear through solid metal? Cause look flesh is flesh. No matter how long you punch 1/4" plate steel you aint getting through.


It's pretty obvious it wasn't built for PVP, and that hasn't changed in the 6 years since the first time I joined one of your servers. I don't think the devs aren't going to waste time doing huge balances for 200 of 20,000 players. 


At this point if its that important and such a passion you think people are waiting for, maybe it's worth considering just getting a group together and making a standalone PVP voxel based zombie survival crafting game yourselves from the ground up and cashing in. Nothing in this game is truly ground breaking.

 

[Testiclese]

I mean for god sakes they Npc's don't even have talking animations and at this point I wonder if their heads are even animatable.
The bar is low.

 

[Gamida]

Isn't it funny when both sides are convinced certain features are "theirs" or "our", to me that means that the game is whatever you want it to be.
Have fun lol

I also wasn't making a point that a land claim was only for PVE. I have never tried PVP but have also have had a curiosity to try it some time...just not right now.

 

[firewalker101]

Lol!  So, first you claim that over 50% have played PVP.  Now you quote the achievement that shows only 17.3% have killed another player.  And you can't even use that as an argument that even that many are playing PVP.  Even if killing a player could *technically* be called PVP, there are a LOT of players who want to complete achievements.  They will ask a co-op player to allow them to kill them enough for the achievement but never actually play PVP.  So, out of that 17.3%, you probably have 10% (generously) who have tried to play PVP in this game, and probably under 5% who continue to do so after deciding that this isn't a good game for PVP.  Far less than your over 50% stats that you claimed.  And that is the stat I said you were making up, not whether or not Roland had played PVP, which I think you know and were just sidestepping the issue rather than admitting your PVP player statistic was made up.

Then you'd have an invulnerable and perfectly safe horde night.  Unless you're just referring to safety from players?

Well of course against only players... lol .. i thought since my mention of PVP a few times would have been a hint of my topic. 
But on horde night or any other night or day - of course horde can still kill ya. 

 

[Grandpa Minion]

I also wasn't making a point that a land claim was only for PVE

alot of pvp players will not use land claims because of two major exploits

A) topsoil not matching map giving away base locations

B)  players running around map holding lcb out to locate bases underground | once they fine one- experienced players easily triangulate the boundary of an enemy lcb finding its middle to dig straight down and remove it

 

[Roland]

I also wasn't making a point that a land claim was only for PVE. I have never tried PVP but have also have had a curiosity to try it some time...just not right now.

Me too. PvP sometimes sounds like just the ticket usually right after reading something you wrote....

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

SEPT 2013 Actively supported Gamemode Singleplayer,Coop, with a switch to make other players invisible to play PVP.
Maxplayer server optional up to 64 accepted, Supported 8.

NOV 2013 Actively supported Gamemode Survival, Deathmatch, ZombieHorde, added 5 MP maps.

APR 2014 Actively supported Gamemode Deathmatch, Survival, SurvivalPVP, ZombieHorde.   PVP Landclaim added.
"Informational notes added to make people aware of afterhour theft of goods."

Nov 2014 Actively supported Gamemode SurvivalMP, SurvivalSP.    PVP removed from server config.  Landclaim left in.
ZombieHorde absorbed into the other supported modes.

DEC 2016 Actively supported Gamemode Creative, SurvivalMP, SurvivalSP.  ZombieHorde absorbed into the other supported

modes. "Landclaim advised to be used to protect player vending machines from griefers".

Nov 2018 Actively supported Gamemode Creative, Survival. Has continued in this developmental direction until now.

Mostly useless information, but it kind of paints a picture. Nov 2014, a decade passed, active support for PVP
was stopped and has not been resumed yet. So according to historic developer notes anyone coming after alpha 8.8
playing, and using the game as PVP platform would have been simply attempting to adapt it to their preference.
Landclaim was repurposed for COOP server-Player Vendor Machine Griefers. Development focus consolidated all
remaining supported Gamemodes into Survival umbrella.

 

[Grandpa Minion]

Landclaim was repurposed for COOP server-Player Vendor Machine Griefers. Development focus consolidated all
remaining supported Gamemodes into Survival umbrella.

OMG! for all things created... they picked lcbs to protect server-Player Vendor Machine... That may be the funniest thing ive ever heard them do, ROFL.

seriously, what about the chile? LOL

 

[4sheetzngeegles]

No, they created it primarily for pvp and coop server use. For after hours raiding protection. I guess they

began to realize that not everyone was approaching the game from a family oriented and honorable standpoint .

Most probably it came from the player posts that now have been archived.

Alpha 7.10

"Added new Survival Pvp mode featuring Land Claim Blocks that bolster your forts protection. Many options accessible

from the game options menu. One is given on player starting inventory options for more will be added in coming builds."

It just shows, to me at least, that depending upon when you started playing the game, or what version

you started at you will have a specific viewpoint of it's development if you don't research farther. Also that "some" of what

everyone has posted is correct, even you. Last that it is a truly hybrid game or collage of genre principles so that everyone

can claim a little part of, for themselves to feel special, would you agree.

The information is readily available. in google       just type     7 days to die version history.

This is a direct copy and paste from the page. Which was maintained by 7 days to die wiki fandom. I guess,,, because they

loved it enough to keep an accurate, and unbiased account, of The Funpimps and 7 days to die history. I go to it often when

I have personal questions about posted subjects that I know nothing or a limited amount about. It keeps it clear so I don't look

at it through a rose tint, remember incorrectly, or form a skewed viewpoint. It also shows me that TFP observed how people had re adapted

to how they use the game on servers and that LCB would be needed as public servers became more popular. I guess that's why they kept the

LCB in game for two years after they nixed PVP development. To me it means that;  and somewhere it was posted earlier, that PVP is not

forgotten as per developers. LCB is proof.

This is from Alpha 15 historic post.

"NPCs can purchase from your rented vending machine so it’s wise to keep it well stocked and not mark up the items too high. If you buy your own vending machine it’s wise to put it in your land claim area as other players with effort can destroy them and steal your goods. Use these at your own risk as vending machine raiding ‘griefing’ will be possible. Note rented or player owned vending machines can be password shared if you want to let a friend use all of your vending machines functions"

I hope this isn't too R'lyehian, which is my normal writing tendency .

 

[Grandpa Minion]

This is from Alpha 15 historic post.

"NPCs can purchase from your rented vending machin

ai purchases from trader vending at one time was a good thought but in reality players use that feature to exploit dukes to power level selling stuff at trader. To keep things fair on our pvp server we had to remove trader vending machines... also from all the videos on youtube running around, this exploit to gain unlimited coins from ai purchases shows that how many console and pc players are just welling to abuse it.