PC The path forward

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ryoendymon

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Just my own thoughts, but I really hope  that moving forward, the pimps add to the game more things to do with the game for a social aspect.  

I love base building, I really do, and they have plenty of decoration options and such, but there isn't much reason to decorate to be honest.  You can't sit in a chair, you can't lay in a bed.  You can't turn on a TV. 

I'm hoping they will bring out a spoilage mechanic, and with it a canning mechanic to preserve food. Long ago they toyed with the idea of zombies being able to "smell" you, if you were carrying something like fresh meat, i'd like to s ee that come back, along with the old "wellness" system, to suggest that we eat better 

 

 
Wellness confused people and was seen as too harsh of a punishment if you died too often for many people. I wouldn´t mind it. Darkness Falls mod still has it.

And please no spoilage. I find it annoying af. For smell there is now feral sense. They can all sense you from further away if turned on, not only when carrying meat.

And tbh, the games that have the sit and lay down thing, it´s nice. For like a few times. Then you don´t do it anymore anyways. But i remember there was a mod for it once. Forgot the name, it was basically vehicles looking like furniture so you can sit down on them. They wouldn´t move though.

 
Gotta admit, I'm a sucker for having pointless immersive stuff I can do at base. Would love to set up a couple of stools near a bar/beer cooler and invite the guys to drink before we head up to the vantage point and pop some Z's or go to work for the day. 

I see both sides of the spoilage argument. With the abundance of food after the early game, it would probably feel impactful to watch that food stash rot away and feel incentivized to set aside some time in the next few days to go on a hunting trip..
What I understand happens is it adds a bunch of overhead to the game as each unit of spoilable food needs to have its own timer, while food is still never really a concern to you unless you're in the one group that gets particularly shafted in this scenario- people on a server that'll be running while they're not playing. - Sure would suck to log in and find everything's turned to mush but the canned goods.
-Because of this, it's my feelings not to bother with it.

Wellness- I miss wellness, I liked it- You eat good, you're more healthy because of it, makes sense to me.. I believe the story was, people would die, lose max hp, die again, get weaker still and so began a death spiral? - pretty sure that's why the mechanic was reworked. .. Sucks though, I'm inclined to think the death spiral was a case of 'get gud'..

 
I am on the fence about spoilage. The thing I hate the most about survival games is accidently burning food you are cooking. 7d2d keeps that from being a pain in the butt, but spoilage of cooked food seems like a fair addition. Once I have my water and food loop figured out, I usually have stacks of bacon and eggs by day 7. Food and water become a complete non issue for me.

Now as a solo player, this might feel like a good thing. Less micromanaging, but as a group Co op game, this might take some of the fun out of being the "chef" 

If they do add spoilage, hopefully they add a craftable cooler spoils at 25% rate and a fridge that stops it completely but requires electricity otherwise it functions as a cooler.

 
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When food spoils in a survival game, the spoilt food often still has a purpose. For example, as fertiliser or as a raw material for fuel. That's what I would like to see in 7 Days to Die.

 
Mister Forgash said:
I see both sides of the spoilage argument. With the abundance of food after the early game, it would probably feel impactful to watch that food stash rot away and feel incentivized to set aside some time in the next few days to go on a hunting trip..
What I understand happens is it adds a bunch of overhead to the game as each unit of spoilable food needs to have its own timer, while food is still never really a concern to you unless you're in the one group that gets particularly shafted in this scenario- people on a server that'll be running while they're not playing. - Sure would suck to log in and find everything's turned to mush but the canned goods.
-Because of this, it's my feelings not to bother with it.
 
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Madmole's design for spoilage actually added minimal overhead - it just spoiled every food item currently existing in the world every blood moon. No timers required.

He may have been joking when he remarked about the idea, or was seriously considering it and later reconsidered, or got talked out of it by the rest of the design team.

 
RipClaw said:
When food spoils in a survival game, the spoilt food often still has a purpose. For example, as fertiliser or as a raw material for fuel. That's what I would like to see in 7 Days to Die.
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Rotting flesh is already a thing as ingredient, if spoiling would ever become a thing I think spoiled food should replace rotting flesh.
In all fairness then they also need to implement working fridges just for balance.

 
Spoiled food really has no value, imo.  It just creates extra grind to keep remaking food that spoils.  That leads to only making X food at a time and just making more every day so you never have to deal with it, which is just a waste of time.  If they added something to prevent spoiling, like a working fridge or canning food or drying food or whatever, then all you are really doing is adding an extra step in the cooking process... 1) cook food as normal, 2) can/dry/refrigerate food to have it last forever, or at least a very long time.  That extra step is really unnecessary.  The only value it has is for realism, and this is already an unrealistic game, so why bother wasting peoples' time?

I don't want to have to go out and find meat every day just to cook something without it spoiling.  I want food to be something that is overcome so I can do other things, which is how it is now.  I'm fine with making meat harder to get, though people already complain about it in the forest, but I would hate spoilage and would mod it out if it was added.

As far as chairs you can sit on, beds to lay down on, etc., I'd like that as an option.  I wouldn't be too surprised if it was added at some point before gold just because it's really nothing more than animation being added for it with a trigger to do so when you click the furniture.  It wouldn't be much effort and TFP knows people ask for it.  But that wouldn't mean you can advance time by sleeping.  That is very unlikely to ever happen in this game, and isn't something I think is needed.

If you're on PC, you can use the OCB Light Enabler mod to turn on/off lights, including TVs, though you'll just get the no-signal screen.  You could also use the UBBI mod to add in TVs that can be turned on/off that show the game's menu screen, as if you're playing the game on it.  Having the ability to turn on/off TVs would be nice in vanilla for those who can't or won't use mods, and it's such a minor thing to add.

 
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It's a survival game.....

That is why food spoilage should be there

That is another aspect of SURVIVAL 

And as with the rest of things in this game, it could have options. 

What is silly, is saying no one should have things they want because you are too lazy.  You know what 7 days is like, lots of options for difficulty,  so if they add spoilage,  itll just be another option for people who want a challenge 

 
ryoendymon said:
That is why food spoilage should be there
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Ok. How should this work in a network game? Let's say I cooked food and left the server. What happens to it? Let's say 10 game days (20 hours of real time) pass during my absence. I log back into the game and see only spoiled products?

 
ryoendymon said:
they have plenty of decoration options and such, but there isn't much reason to decorate to be honest.  You can't sit in a chair, you can't lay in a bed.  You can't turn on a TV. 
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That is...odd...isn't it?

 
ryoendymon said:
It's a survival game.....

That is why food spoilage should be there

That is another aspect of SURVIVAL 

And as with the rest of things in this game, it could have options. 

What is silly, is saying no one should have things they want because you are too lazy.  You know what 7 days is like, lots of options for difficulty,  so if they add spoilage,  itll just be another option for people who want a challenge 
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100% agree.....Ark survival evolved had food spoilage and it was a great mechanic and also had good use for it. Crafting a food preservation box, and drying out meat on a drying rack for meat jerky, spoiling meat for fertilizer all had good uses...is it needed no, but its purpose is to keep a player "busy" in a survival situation and that's the point. 7 days to die needs more things to do other than kill zombies, loot rinse repeat to break up that cycle. That`s what a survival game experiences is about. And ark survival evolved did a lot of those things that 7 days to die desperately needs for that extra immersion factor imo.

 
aceguy7 said:
100% agree.....Ark survival evolved had food spoilage and it was a great mechanic and also had good use for it. Crafting a food preservation box, and drying out meat on a drying rack for meat jerky, spoiling meat for fertilizer all had good uses...is it needed no, but its purpose is to keep a player "busy" in a survival situation and that's the point. 7 days to die needs more things to do other than kill zombies, loot rinse repeat to break up that cycle. That`s what a survival game experiences is about. And ark survival evolved did a lot of those things that 7 days to die desperately needs for that extra immersion factor imo.
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So glad you get it.

A key factor of a survival game is managing things.  Seriously,  as things stand, there is minimal worry for food, it feels like a non issue, what is the point of having the food stat, if it is a non issue?  Honestly,  once you get access to hobo stew, you're pretty much golden.   Since nothing spoils, every world I make, by day 20, has boxes of overflowing food.

Right now, 7 days is moving towards an action game, rather than survival. 

 
ryoendymon said:
Right now, 7 days is moving towards an action game, rather than survival. 
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I've been saying this for years, but 7DTD's ultimate strength and longevity will always be tied to its ability to be modified.  From there the potential for variations on the theme are endless.  People will create their own biomes and an endless number of POIs, large and small.  There will be lots of tweaking of the RWG and I'm sure someone will create a simpler way to make custom maps like Navezgane (my hope is that someone can make a way to take OpenStreetMap data and make a 7DTD map out of it, but no idea if that would be even remotely feasible).  There will be a billion crafting recipes made and at least that many changes to the progression system and learning with books.  Imagine a map of Chicago with vampires, werewolves, and zombies.  Or a Planet of the Apes remake.  All things are possible given sufficient time.

 
Without mentioning too many different games as example I think that 7D2D has a decent replayability vallue compared to some of the other survival games, just set your own goals. The worst thing any developer can do is copying too much from other games if it works there. I mean, we are not playing that other game so why want this to be more like that other game? Many of these games rely on actual simple (in itself almost boring) mechanics where the PvP element is the keyfactor. As they said when FO76 launched: More fun with friends. And as people responded: Sure, even kicking a half deflated footbal can be fun with friends.
Tl;dr: What works for them does not have to work here.

And since the focus seems to be food lately, here's my 2 cents: Spoiled food can be a thing but it needs to be in ballance and there needs to be a countermechanic as well as a use. Also, in a zombie world fresh comodities are a rare thing, so all you find is pretty persistent. In a jungle full of animals your meal is just behind the second tree on the left, under that rock. Just send your trained monkey to grab it or unleish you mother-in-law to go kill it... With that in mind I think the food is handled pretty decent as it is now.

 
ryoendymon said:
Yea I feel like they are moving more towards an arcade like looter shooter....its very frustrating because this game has so much potential

 for more survival type aspects. I really wish they would take some ideas from ark survival evolved... Or heck even conan exiles has so many work benches and things to do other than kill and loot stuff. I feel like the devs have lost their way in many aspects of the game...I wish they would hire the guy who made the mod undead legacy as he would be perfect for the team.

Right now, 7 days is moving towards an action game, rather than survival. 
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