Humble requests from a Peasant

As I've said in the past, I'd like either stations to turn off when they're out of work, or to let us split stacks into specific amounts, instead of just half or 1.  Trying to get 73 wood from a stack of 6000 is a massive pain.
The discussion of saving fuel like this is one of the reasons I made a suggestion for some new workbenches that function with power too. 
I encourage you to check out the “industrial forge, ammo bench, and stove” topic suggestion on that.

 
The discussion of saving fuel like this is one of the reasons I made a suggestion for some new workbenches that function with power too. 
I encourage you to check out the “industrial forge, ammo bench, and stove” topic suggestion on that.
I don't really want new version of questions that use electricity, though.

 
I don't really want new version of questions that use electricity, though.
Idk if you took the time to read the topic, but the forge and stove have the OPTION of just functioning off a fuel source, but the auto shutoff function and higher efficiency comes with using electricity in addition to the fuel source.

Check it out if you haven’t.

 
Vaeliorin said:
As I've said in the past, I'd like either stations to turn off when they're out of work, or to let us split stacks into specific amounts, instead of just half or 1.  Trying to get 73 wood from a stack of 6000 is a massive pain.
There is a problem with disabling forges. Let's say it has 6000 iron, 6000 clay loaded into it and I set it to produce 200 nails. When should it turn off?
- When will the nails be produced?
- When will the iron melt?
- When will the clay melt?
Dividing the stacks into arbitrary sizes would be more logical and easier to implement, in my opinion. Player priorities may change as the game progresses.

 
There is a problem with disabling forges. Let's say it has 6000 iron, 6000 clay loaded into it and I set it to produce 200 nails. When should it turn off?
- When will the nails be produced?
- When will the iron melt?
- When will the clay melt?
Dividing the stacks into arbitrary sizes would be more logical and easier to implement, in my opinion. Player priorities may change as the game progresses.


You should be able to melt even when not crafting anything, so logically the solution is that the forge will stay on until all iron and clay is melted.

 
You should be able to melt even when not crafting anything, so logically the solution is that the forge will stay on until all iron and clay is melted.
That's what you think. But I think that if the forge is running to do something, it should turn off after production. If I started it purely for smelting, then after smelting is finished.

Everyone has their own vision of the logic of work. And no matter which option the developers choose, there will be dissatisfied people.

Therefore, the option of choosing the required amount from the stack is more interesting and universal. I can quickly count firewood and ingredients for crafting and use them for many other things.

 
That's what you think. But I think that if the forge is running to do something, it should turn off after production. If I started it purely for smelting, then after smelting is finished.


This gets complicated because if you start smelting but then add a craft job, you don't want to stop it in the middle of the craft job because the smelting was finished. This could be solved with prioritising crafting, but explaining the operation of a forge in one little journal page in simple words, not really possible anymore

Everyone has their own vision of the logic of work. And no matter which option the developers choose, there will be dissatisfied people.


Doesn't matter, because any change gets dissatisfied people. And I can't imagine the dissatisfaction being huge because it will still be a usability improvement.

Therefore, the option of choosing the required amount from the stack is more interesting and universal. I can quickly count firewood and ingredients for crafting and use them for many other things.


But also more click-work, while the other solution is automatic. And it needs UI changes which is a lot more work for the developers than a simple logic to turn off the forge when empty.

 
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This gets complicated because if you start smelting but then add a craft job, you don't want to stop it in the middle of the craft job because the smelting was finished.
Or maybe I want it the other way around?
If I remember correctly, with the Advanced Engineering skill level, you can make 1,500 steel with a full forge. I would prefer that it stop when there is no smeltable material, since smelting 30,000 iron takes more time than smelting 1,500 steel.

But also more click-work, while the other solution is automatic. And it needs UI changes which is a lot more work for the developers than a simple logic to turn off the forge when empty.
Well, adding 1 dialog is easier in my opinion than adding a complex condition. Why not open a dialog with the quantity when you right-click and by default there would be a figure of half a stack? I didn't like it, I entered the figure manually.

The stopping algorithm is not as simple as it seems at first glance. Let's say I have a full forge, 6000 iron and 6000 clay are in the smelting slots. I decided to make 1 nail. I launched it. The nail was made, 1 piece of iron melted and became full. But there will be 1 piece short of clay in the forge and it cannot be melted, since it melts in 5 units. Such nuances must be taken into account.
In 1.0, a bug was already allowed with forges, with the Advanced Engineering skill pumped up, the maximum quantity is incorrectly calculated. In b336, this error has not yet been fixed. Judging by the fact that they could not fix it quickly, the calculation is already not so simple. And additional algorithms in the work will lead to even more bugs.

 
There is a problem with disabling forges. Let's say it has 6000 iron, 6000 clay loaded into it and I set it to produce 200 nails. When should it turn off?
- When will the nails be produced?
- When will the iron melt?
- When will the clay melt?
Dividing the stacks into arbitrary sizes would be more logical and easier to implement, in my opinion. Player priorities may change as the game progresses.
To put it simply:

if there is nothing being crafted, nothing being smelted (either because nothing is in the queue to smelt or because it’s reached its maximum). 
 

BASICALLY, if the numbers of materials smelted are not changing, it should turn off.

A default forge should NOT do this on its own though. It should either require an NPC operator or have an electrical (sensor) input, like I put on the industrial forge suggestion.

 
Or maybe I want it the other way around?
If I remember correctly, with the Advanced Engineering skill level, you can make 1,500 steel with a full forge. I would prefer that it stop when there is no smeltable material, since smelting 30,000 iron takes more time than smelting 1,500 steel.


I would bet a large sum TFP will not add options that micromanage how the forge will work. So they would use a very simple algorithm. And I would bet a similarily large sum that algorithm would not stop if something is still crafting. I may be wrong, but I would assume this is what most players would want, because melting is not the reason someone uses a forge, the ultimate reason to use a forge is to craft something. If you disagree, so be it.

Well, adding 1 dialog is easier in my opinion than adding a complex condition. Why not open a dialog with the quantity when you right-click and by default there would be a figure of half a stack? I didn't like it, I entered the figure manually.


We simply have to disagree about the complexity. The condition itself can be easily written in one line, adding code for edge cases would probably add another handful of lines, nothing of it is complex. UI is manageable with a good toolkit, but there are a lot of moving parts. It has edge cases as well , you have to take into account that if that stack you are splitting is added to because it sits in the output slot of a forge you may have to change to total amount of the split while the dialog is open, always fun to handle and think of all those asychronous events.

The stopping algorithm is not as simple as it seems at first glance. Let's say I have a full forge, 6000 iron and 6000 clay are in the smelting slots. I decided to make 1 nail. I launched it. The nail was made, 1 piece of iron melted and became full. But there will be 1 piece short of clay in the forge and it cannot be melted, since it melts in 5 units. Such nuances must be taken into account.


Which stopping algorithm, the one where it stops after crafting is finished or stops when after crafting and melting is finished?

The only new event or result in this example is that the forge might have been stopped by the new algorithm and the "problem" sort of avoided at all. The piece of clay can't be melted but won't.

Apart from that your example is identical to simply having a full melt cue and the forge being full already. I don't see a difference whether 1 clay is stalling or 1000. You are correct that a turn-off-algorithm which only turns off when melting is complete needs to decide what to do in case the forge is full and still stuff in the melt cue. That is one edge cases and probably needs another conditional in the line where it is decided whether the forge is stopped, big deal.

And turning off the forge, whatever state it is in, seems a very safe operations in all conditions, wouldn't you agree? After all, turning off is already done automatically when the fuel runs out or the player clicks on the on/off-switch, and after that it does harmlessly NOTHING each update tick.

n 1.0, a bug was already allowed with forges, with the Advanced Engineering skill pumped up, the maximum quantity is incorrectly calculated. In b336, this error has not yet been fixed. Judging by the fact that they could not fix it quickly, the calculation is already not so simple. And additional algorithms in the work will lead to even more bugs.


They have a huge bug list and some of those (for example) prevent console players from playing all together. There are a lot of high priority bugs from what I can see in General Support and you are concluding from the fact that this (IMHO) rather minor bug is not fixed that it is a hard to fix bug? Nope, I don't buy that.

 
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I would bet a large sum TFP will not add options that micromanage how the forge will work. So they would use a very simple algorithm. And I would bet a similarily large sum that algorithm would not stop if something is still crafting. I may be wrong, but I would assume this is what most players would want, because melting is not the reason someone uses a forge, the ultimate reason to use a forge is to craft something. If you disagree, so be it.
If something changes, it will most likely be like this. This will be enough for most players. This is a common practice for a mass product.

always fun to handle and think of all those asychronous events.
Yes, it is good entertainment, you need to calculate all possible options.

They have a huge bug list and some of those (for example) prevent console players from playing all together. There are a lot of high priority bugs from what I can see in General Support and you are concluding from the fact that this (IMHO) rather minor bug is not fixed that it is a hard to fix bug? Nope, I don't buy that.
I don't see all the errors, so it's an impossible task for me to prioritize. Maybe you're right about the more serious and critical errors. Especially when it comes to consoles, you can't dig into files like on a PC.

 
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