PC Everybody wanted Traders nerfed

T5 or T6 takes waaay too long ( 7Days suits drove me mad looking for missed zombies for a whole day running around looking for few groups I somehow missed ) to be worth doing it for traders.
I did couple off them just for the sake of a resetting of POI so I can scrap them for materials ( book stores for those roles of paper - for shotgun shells crafting, Army outpost 7 for  beds and car parts, Grover high for quick library run and quick xp with all the zombies hordes you get...)
Lower tier quests gets you quick magazine bundles or duct tapes.

Otherwise I only use traders to buy couple of food ( cans and potatoes/corn ), than usually I buy cobblestone to save time, occasionally duct tape and glue, magazines, lamps, Dew collector 1st two mods and Crucible to send me ahead. That is it, all the rest is useless in their menu.

Don't even bother with them, just go to the wasteland for higher Loot stage and you get all the items you need much faster for lower tier POI's.
Also for skill progression just do mail boxes, newspaper stands and bookstores instead of buying from traders - frankly that is all game is all about now since there is no learn by doing anymore. 

 

 
I have to agree with the original poster. It did seem a little over powered before but now the rewards, for the most part, are very underwhelming. 

I do understand the need for the change so I'm definitely not complaining, just adding my opinion in I guess. 

BRING BACK THE TOPLESS STRIPPER ZOMBIE!!! 😁

 
The game isn't supposed to be balanced for multiplayer, as solo is the intended balance point. If they want to add a bit of code to use a separate loot pool when there are more than one players turning in the same quest, that's fine by me. If they did that they could even split the coin and exp as well.

In the first week or two 50 rounds of ammo isn't a total waste, especially if it's the proper caliber. But by the time you're doing T4's and better you probably have the capacity to pump out ammunition of whatever type you need in full stacks, if not boxes. Ammo of the wrong type usually just piles up and eventually gets sold, but with the nerfs to buy and sell prices ammo is hardly worth holding to sell. The people talking about ammo scarcity always confuse me, I've never noticed a shortage of ammo after the first week or two, are ya'll just praying and spraying for body shots of something. Rads can soak up a lot of rounds, even as headshots. Maybe I just melee more than most people, I usually save the guns for hairy spots and horde nights, or when I'm really just trying to rush a PoI ASAP.
The game is supposed to be balanced for multiplayer.  This isn't a solo game, though it can be played that way.  Although I have no data on it, I'm sure more than half the players play the game in multiplayer, either only multiplayer or in addition to single player.  The game is 1-8 players officially.  Perhaps you're mixing up the statement that balancing for PVP or balancing for more than 8 players isn't the goal for the developers.  But balancing for 1-8 players is supposed to happen.

As far as ammo, most people short on ammo after the early game are likely those who like to use a lot of turrets for horde night as those burn ammo quickly.  And whatever ammo you personally use regularly will usually be low unless you're crafting a lot of ammo.  When I used to use 9mm (SMG) all the time, I was always low on 9mm and had crates of everything else.  I then switched to desert vulture for my main weapon and left the 9mm for turrets and things balanced out better, though 7.62mm and shotgun were still very high.  It also comes down to whether or not people are crafting ammo.  A lot of players don't craft unless absolutely necessary, so they mostly only use ammo they find or buy.  Others craft it but don't spend time crafting the parts (casings, shells, gunpowder) and so can only craft as much as they find parts for.  Obviously, that's a player choice that affects the amount of ammo and not a game issue.  But it isn't really wrong to play the game that way if you don't enjoy crafting.

T5 or T6 takes waaay too long ( 7Days suits drove me mad looking for missed zombies for a whole day running around looking for few groups I somehow missed ) to be worth doing it for traders.
I did couple off them just for the sake of a resetting of POI so I can scrap them for materials ( book stores for those roles of paper - for shotgun shells crafting, Army outpost 7 for  beds and car parts, Grover high for quick library run and quick xp with all the zombies hordes you get...)
Lower tier quests gets you quick magazine bundles or duct tapes.

Otherwise I only use traders to buy couple of food ( cans and potatoes/corn ), than usually I buy cobblestone to save time, occasionally duct tape and glue, magazines, lamps, Dew collector 1st two mods and Crucible to send me ahead. That is it, all the rest is useless in their menu.

Don't even bother with them, just go to the wasteland for higher Loot stage and you get all the items you need much faster for lower tier POI's.
Also for skill progression just do mail boxes, newspaper stands and bookstores instead of buying from traders - frankly that is all game is all about now since there is no learn by doing anymore. 

 
I used to think that, but now I don't think they are all that long.  Yes, T5 POI are a big step up from T4 POI, but once you know the POI, you can cruise right through them without taking all that long.  Still might be double a T4, but I don't think that's all that bad.  Sure, you can quest or just loot only T4s and get through a lot of them quickly.  But the T5 POI are really well done and worth doing, imo.  There is a lot of loot in them, regardless of quest rewards.  And having a POI last longer than 15 minutes is nice.  But to each their own.  If you don't like spending time in a POI, the game makes it easy not to have to do so.  For those who like these large POI, they are there for us.

Btw, if your game play choice is to loot higher biomes right away rather than working up to them, be prepared for the changes to biomes that will probably make that not possible until later in the game.  Wasteland is intended to be all radiation, so until you can handle that, you aren't going to be able to go there.  They haven't given details about the other biomes, but the plan is to make them hard to rush towards.

 
In the first week or two 50 rounds of ammo isn't a total waste, especially if it's the proper caliber. But by the time you're doing T4's and better you probably have the capacity to pump out ammunition of whatever type you need in full stacks, if not boxes. Ammo of the wrong type usually just piles up and eventually gets sold, but with the nerfs to buy and sell prices ammo is hardly worth holding to sell.


Lets say ammo scarcity is something the developers want to achieve for a good balance. Even though that is hard to reach, especially since it also has to be balanced between novice players and veterans. While especially in A20 and A21 you were almost buried in ammunition, 1.0 has made a step in the right direction. I always thought that higher difficulty settings should also automatically adjust loot abundance downwards as well. In the mean time, if you feel there is no challenge in getting ammo and other materials then please adjust loot abundance yourself.

 
Interesting. The game has never held my attention long enough to get that late in to progression.


You really need to use mods, Vanilla is a @%$# poor experience in 1.0 and has gone nothing but downhill after a16.4. Its at the point now you basically require mods to have actual proper progression and a mid/late game, not to mention all the new features mods add that TFP refuses to add to vanilla even though they would better the game if they did.

Lets say ammo scarcity is something the developers want to achieve for a good balance. Even though that is hard to reach, especially since it also has to be balanced between novice players and veterans. While especially in A20 and A21 you were almost buried in ammunition, 1.0 has made a step in the right direction. I always thought that higher difficulty settings should also automatically adjust loot abundance downwards as well. In the mean time, if you feel there is no challenge in getting ammo and other materials then please adjust loot abundance yourself.


I mean sure but 7dtd is known to be poor at doing math, and lowering loot abundance below 100% can cause most loot containers to end up being empty. even if you set it to 75% it see's anything below 1 as 0 more often than not. No idea if its fixed now, but with TFP taking 3-5 alpha's to fix some long standing bugs I wouldn't be surprized if its still just as buggy.

As for ammo, infested quests are a thing, even tier 2 ones can give almost entire stacks of 7.62mm. meanwhile any other ammo source generally has very few rounds in it. Run 2-4 tier 2 infestiation quests and you'll have more ammo than you'll know what to do with for multiple weapon types. I do feel trader costs for ammo needs to be noticably reduced, as the ammo is far to high priced compared to duke income and how many rounds it takes to kill things. Either way even in 1.0 you'll prob never need to craft ammo just due to the infestation quests.

 
You really need to use mods, Vanilla is a @%$# poor experience in 1.0 and has gone nothing but downhill after a16.4. Its at the point now you basically require mods to have actual proper progression and a mid/late game, not to mention all the new features mods add that TFP refuses to add to vanilla even though they would better the game if they did.

I mean sure but 7dtd is known to be poor at doing math, and lowering loot abundance below 100% can cause most loot containers to end up being empty. even if you set it to 75% it see's anything below 1 as 0 more often than not. No idea if its fixed now, but with TFP taking 3-5 alpha's to fix some long standing bugs I wouldn't be surprized if its still just as buggy.

As for ammo, infested quests are a thing, even tier 2 ones can give almost entire stacks of 7.62mm. meanwhile any other ammo source generally has very few rounds in it. Run 2-4 tier 2 infestiation quests and you'll have more ammo than you'll know what to do with for multiple weapon types. I do feel trader costs for ammo needs to be noticably reduced, as the ammo is far to high priced compared to duke income and how many rounds it takes to kill things. Either way even in 1.0 you'll prob never need to craft ammo just due to the infestation quests.


Logical consequence: infested chests have to be nerfed eventually as well.

 
Logical consequence: infested chests have to be nerfed eventually as well.


Well they do need a bit of a nerf to be honest, I am usually not one for calling for nerfs, but they just give way to much ammo, I mean the amount of ammo it gives is fine if it was a tier 5/6 infested, but the fact you get those numbers out of a tier 2 infested quest is the problem. Can just farm them for easy ammo.

 
This game and forum is a hobby gaming interest not a research project, that said every time I can recall balance coming up in the course of reading the forums it's been said that balance for solo was the intention and multiplayer was icing on the cake. If that's not the case so be it, but I have to say that if the intention is to balance for multiplayer that some horrendous mistakes have been in the works for years. For instance quest sharing should have never been a thing, other than maybe letting the party see objectives. I mean why would someone hand out a job to a single person and then pay eight different people the full reward?

I think the game could be improved a lot by making ammo much more scarce and harder to craft, though I shudder at the thought of going back to the caliper hunt days. Maybe if ammo was a luxury we could lose the bullet sponge zombies, wouldn't that be nice. Although I guess without significant improvement to the system resource requirements for mobs and mobs of zombies we still might be stuck with bullet sponge zombies for the sake of challenge /sigh.

 
This game and forum is a hobby gaming interest not a research project, that said every time I can recall balance coming up in the course of reading the forums it's been said that balance for solo was the intention and multiplayer was icing on the cake. If that's not the case so be it, but I have to say that if the intention is to balance for multiplayer that some horrendous mistakes have been in the works for years. For instance quest sharing should have never been a thing, other than maybe letting the party see objectives. I mean why would someone hand out a job to a single person and then pay eight different people the full reward?


Because the basic premise of this game is a Co-Op player experience.  That is why you have shared quests and shared rewards.  I don't recall anyone from TFP stating that balance of the game was set for solo players, just Co-Op experience.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
They got what they wanted.  Check out this T6 Infestation reward choice:

View attachment 31428

Pretty underwhelming and disappointing.
Man, don't make me make this argument. While many of the loot rewards do blow, a legendary part is not necessarily a bad loot reward. It doesn't hold a candle to a steel tool well before you can craft them, but depending on the playthrough they are a welcome loot reward. I've played a few playthroughs in 1.0 and the drop rate appears to range from "next to none at all" to "ok, that might be too many".

Personally, I do think that they needed to nerf the traders a little bit, but they kinda overdid it. Typical of The Fun Pimps though.

 
Man, don't make me make this argument. While many of the loot rewards do blow, a legendary part is not necessarily a bad loot reward. It doesn't hold a candle to a steel tool well before you can craft them, but depending on the playthrough they are a welcome loot reward. I've played a few playthroughs in 1.0 and the drop rate appears to range from "next to none at all" to "ok, that might be too many".

Personally, I do think that they needed to nerf the traders a little bit, but they kinda overdid it. Typical of The Fun Pimps though.
Agreed. Early game, the rewards are definitely fine as any resources/food are good. 

However when on day 27, clearing out a tier 5 "stand tower" in the wasteland and the rewards are *5 glue; *1 sham chowder; *magazine bundle, etc....thats kinda sh*t, lol

 
On the other hand, by the time you're doing tier 5 or 6, you probably have Q6 equipment already and have the ability to make pretty much anything you need and can gather resources very quickly.  So other than being able to feel good about getting that Q6 item that you don't need just because it's Q6, it really isn't important.  Don't get me wrong, I know where you're coming from.  I am a quester and play a lot of RPGs and getting great loot and quest rewards are wonderful.  But this game has such a limited set of equipment and other main things you might get as rewards that you just don't really need to keep getting a ton of Q6 stuff all the time.  With this game, I really don't do quests for rewards even before 1.0 after maybe about tier 3 as I'm usually set up pretty good by then and the rewards, even if good, just aren't needed.  I just quest because I enjoy questing.  It's just a shift in how I relate to this game compared to other games with quests and loot.  Rather than expect it to be what I get from other games, I accept it for how it is and play with that in mind.

Quest rewards before were really overly OP and I'm glad they nerfed them.  Maybe they are a bit too low now, but we don't need to get equipment rewards back.  Maybe just more options for 500 quantity of various resources like ore (maybe around 10-15 for resources like glue).  But that can be OP as well.

I do max Daring Adventurer in 1.0 just so I get double rewards so it feels better, though.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
On the other hand, by the time you're doing tier 5 or 6, you probably have Q6 equipment already and have the ability to make pretty much anything you need and can gather resources very quickly.  So other than being able to feel good about getting that Q6 item that you don't need just because it's Q6, it really isn't important.  Don't get me wrong, I know where you're coming from.  I am a quester and play a lot of RPGs and getting great loot and quest rewards are wonderful.  But this game has such a limited set of equipment and other main things you might get as rewards that you just don't really need to keep getting a ton of Q6 stuff all the time.  With this game, I really don't do quests for rewards even before 1.0 after maybe about tier 3 as I'm usually set up pretty good by then and the rewards, even if good, just aren't needed.  I just quest because I enjoy questing.  It's just a shift in how I relate to this game compared to other games with quests and loot.  Rather than expect it to be what I get from other games, I accept it for how it is and play with that in mind.

Quest rewards before were really overly OP and I'm glad they nerfed them.  Maybe they are a bit too low now, but we don't need to get equipment rewards back.  Maybe just more options for 500 quantity of various resources like ore (maybe around 10-15 for resources like glue).  But that can be OP as well.

I do max Daring Adventurer in 1.0 just so I get double rewards so it feels better, though.
Yup, very true. 

I wonder if they did bring back item degradation, this might help the longevity of the game and the want/need to continuously find or quest for better items. 

I mean that would make total sense and would force us to hold on to that quality 5 item, just in case another one can't be found or bought and you repair your current item enough to where it falls below what you found.

Could add another element to the game....

 
Yup, very true. 

I wonder if they did bring back item degradation, this might help the longevity of the game and the want/need to continuously find or quest for better items. 

I mean that would make total sense and would force us to hold on to that quality 5 item, just in case another one can't be found or bought and you repair your current item enough to where it falls below what you found.

Could add another element to the game....
If they did that, they'd need to do something about parts.  Now that Q6 is almost entirely crafted - you can find some occasionally, but it's not something you can count on - you would need to be able to find enough parts for whatever weapons you use and for armor (if armor degraded) to be able to keep crafting Q6 stuff.  The legendary parts aren't really a big deal, but even with max perks, I wouldn't be able to find enough X weapon parts to make a new Q6 every week or however long it takes to degrade.  I think it would just become a frustrating experience for players when they only get to use their Q6 on rare occasions or else be without it for long periods of time between when they can get enough parts to craft a new one.

 
If they did that, they'd need to do something about parts.  Now that Q6 is almost entirely crafted - you can find some occasionally, but it's not something you can count on - you would need to be able to find enough parts for whatever weapons you use and for armor (if armor degraded) to be able to keep crafting Q6 stuff.  The legendary parts aren't really a big deal, but even with max perks, I wouldn't be able to find enough X weapon parts to make a new Q6 every week or however long it takes to degrade.  I think it would just become a frustrating experience for players when they only get to use their Q6 on rare occasions or else be without it for long periods of time between when they can get enough parts to craft a new one.
True. It probably would just turn into a pain in the ass, just something else to have to keep track of. Maybe just make em degrade slow, idk. 

Just spit balling more or less. I love the game & will support it none the less. 

 
Back
Top