PC What's the point of Enforcer set bonus?
- Thread starter DonnyT
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theFlu
Well-known member
Light armor, with a Magnum .44, the ultimate stealth weapon... 
Yeah, the bonuses look a little mixed. The first thing I'd change thou, is taking the magazine buff off the nerd chest. If it's really needed in the game, split it in the relevant skills that give the increased loot chances. Ain't nobody liking that micromanagement, but everyone will carry a piece just to free up inventory...
Yeah, the bonuses look a little mixed. The first thing I'd change thou, is taking the magazine buff off the nerd chest. If it's really needed in the game, split it in the relevant skills that give the increased loot chances. Ain't nobody liking that micromanagement, but everyone will carry a piece just to free up inventory...
Loboling
New member
I've already fully rebalanced the armor sets on my version. I didn't like the tedium of changing armor sets around. Now, besides changing 2-3 pieces around, it's mostly a matter of preference which armor set you use. I kept a few specialized pieces, like goggles for barter, xp & loot. And some boots protect from fall damage, vs some have runspeed.
Honestly, I do love 44 weapons, but I prefer armor sets that are a bit more flexible than that.
I can't wait to release my new mod once full release comes. Still working on it now, but I'm happy with how the armor changes have turned out. The default 1.0 armor sets are way too specialized for my taste.
Honestly, I do love 44 weapons, but I prefer armor sets that are a bit more flexible than that.
I can't wait to release my new mod once full release comes. Still working on it now, but I'm happy with how the armor changes have turned out. The default 1.0 armor sets are way too specialized for my taste.
Riamus
Well-known member
The entire about bonus stuff needs reworked. It is very unbalanced and half the stuff is either niche or didn't really work well together or so powerful that you want to keep swapping stuff based on what you are doing. That isn't good design. Half the time, the set bonus isn't any good compared to using different pieces of armor. Using a mediocre bonus on a piece of equipment to get a bit very useful set bonus instead of mixing the armor isn't good. I mean, there isn't any reason you can't mix and match, but there should be actual incentive to use a set. Right now, there really isn't for many of the sets.
Even though bonuses are nice, I would much rather not have any bonuses or else have bonuses be random.
Even though bonuses are nice, I would much rather not have any bonuses or else have bonuses be random.
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Kosmic Kerman
New member
I really don't get the complaining about this. A lot of the individual pieces are great because they give you more flexibility in how you spend your skill points. And if you find switching armor pieces to be tedious--don't. The game does not force anyone to play optimally. It's nice to have the option to wear miner/lumberjack helmet, miner gloves, nerd outfit etc. but it's not necessary. I also think that a lot of people are missing the roleplay aspects to the armor sets. Just because a particular player does not roleplay doesn't mean other players won't enjoy that aspect. It's fine that some of the set bonuses are niche. For min/maxers, there will always be one armor set or mixed set that is optimal. This is inescapable. Everything doesn't need to be perfectly balanced.
Personally, I like Jonah Birch's idea that you should be able to loot armor that has the normal bonus plus a randomly rolled bonus from another piece. This would encourage looting in the mid- to late-game and would allow better itemization. This would allow those who want deterministic crafting to have their purple items and those who enjoy finding items in loot to loot something worthwhile. I also generally agree that TFP probably needs to think about adding chase items to loot tables: Quality 7 weapons or similar. As it stands now, once you craft your purple weapons from your perked attribute(s) there's not much you can find in a loot container that brings a meaningful thrill.
Personally, I like Jonah Birch's idea that you should be able to loot armor that has the normal bonus plus a randomly rolled bonus from another piece. This would encourage looting in the mid- to late-game and would allow better itemization. This would allow those who want deterministic crafting to have their purple items and those who enjoy finding items in loot to loot something worthwhile. I also generally agree that TFP probably needs to think about adding chase items to loot tables: Quality 7 weapons or similar. As it stands now, once you craft your purple weapons from your perked attribute(s) there's not much you can find in a loot container that brings a meaningful thrill.
Riamus
Well-known member
The balancing issue is that some armor doesn't even make sense to use. Wear something that gives a bonus to all weapons or wear something that gives the same bonus to only certain weapons or certain enemies?
They are going to balance it and adjust values. It is better for them to hear what needs fixed before they do.
Adding Q7 to loot tables will just repeat the situation of Q6. Crafters will complain that they can't craft it. I personally wouldn't mind armor and weapons that can only be looted, but there is a strong push to craft everything and TFP apparently agreed it at least caved in and made Q6 craftable.
And yes, they removed armor progression from the game. You can craft any class of armor at the same time. No one will progress from light to heavy being just using whatever they find, which isn't the same thing. You now use primitive until you find real armor or craft it. You can craft all armor of the tier you have unlocked without progression. Once you get Q6, there isn't anywhere to go and you get that in the early game, or at worst, in the very early mid game even without trying.
Kosmic Kerman
New member
Yes they are going to balance the outliers. But just because one person doesn't understand the value of a set doesn't mean it has no value or no one will wear it. And I'm sure as people come up with good ideas for how to change the bonuses/set bonuses TFP will start implementing those.
I'm less pessimistic about TFP adding Q7 weapons and tools. Unlike Q6, they have never been added to the game in any real sense. Technically, there's Taza's axe but they've not really revisited this concept. People have never had the ability to craft Q7 items and thus have never lost that ability like Q6. Some people will complain about change simply because. Others get angry when they lose what they had. And you can never please everyone. Regardless, I don't think people complaining about the ability to craft Q7s or rare items would stop TFP from adding them to the game if that's what they wanted to do. Plenty of people @%$#ed about skill magazines and empty jars and I don't see those systems changing. Not everything needs to be craftable and this game needs some chase items. TFP recognized this when they initially made Q6 items non-craftable. The real question is whether TFP have the interest and time to add Q7 or rare items to the game.
jdm311
New member
I remember years back there was talk about legendary items like Ash's chainsaw (Evil Dead/Army of Darkness). It would be fun to have items like that in loot that qualify as a loot-only Q7 item. It would be great if it had an inherent ability like 'decaps zombies easier' in addition to max mods slots available.
Javabean867
Well-known member
In previous alphas I didn't 'progress from light to heavy' I would pick the armor I wanted to use for that playthrough.
I do think they have the armor mags a little too heavily weighted for the loot tables. I think they just want people to be able to play with the new toy.
Although if they don't change the weight, I wouldn't complain.
Riamus
Well-known member
How often did you choose heavy armor in the first week? Or at least the first days, even if you found it? I know I didn't. Even though I used heavy armor, I wouldn't start wearing it right away because it just didn't work well without stamina. Of course, for light armor people, there wasn't any progression before either because they started with what they wanted. But at least with heavy armor, I generally worked to it as stamina went up. Now, by the time you can craft a good set, you probably have stamina and don't need to worry about what armor class it is. And until then, the random armor you find and use will usually be a mix of armor classes, so doesn't really affect you much regardless of stamina unless you happen to find only heavy armor.
Maybe I'm splitting hairs here, but I do feel like progression in armor has gotten worse in 1.0 even if it wasn't necessarily a lot better for everyone before.
Why? All this does is penalize people who don't want to spend all their play time looting. It's already bad enough with the magazines. They've basically massively nerfed a particular playstyle, and it doesn't need any more nerfing.
Riamus
Well-known member
I have to agree. And I am firmly on the looter side of the game and love finding stuff I can't get elsewhere. But that isn't the only way to play this game and you should be successful in any remotely viable play style. Being only able to get the best equipment by looting isn't a good option in this game.
theFlu
Well-known member
You made me think, now you suffer the ping...
Best legendaries I've seen are .. boss loot. Preferably the things a boss uses while fighting, with some version of the boss's combat moves implemented into an effect. Second best, a combination of crafting and questing, towards a lore-reasonable thing... In 7dtd terms..
- you loot a rare "insight" from a cop zombie. "This could become something useful"
- you might go discuss your insight with a gunsmith NPC (once such things are in, if ever)
- you end up getting a quest to harvest 2 rad cops for their acid-spewing giblets. (drop, or a specific harvest tool, or something)
- you use the giblets to craft / (or have the gunsmith craft) a legendary two-barrel acid-bomb-spewing shotgun. if you use shotgun ammo, or something more nasty to feed it, it's up to anyone's imagination.
- is it any good? I dunno, but it's a whole lot more legendary than a "shotgun+1" from the creation ..
Add steps, remove steps, but have it involve doing something special at least. Other than opening the T6 Infestation end loot ...
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Riamus
Well-known member
Like I said, I'm a looter through and through. I love games where I can go find unique items from quests, bosses, exploration, and so on. I don't really enjoy crafting and only do it if I need to in most games. But this isn't really a loot-centric game. It's much more of a sandbox game that allows for a wide variety of things you can do that don't involve much looting. Forcing people to loot in order to get the best stuff rather than crafting it, or at least buying it, just isn't a good idea for this game, imo. But give me that setup in every other game!You made me think, now you suffer the ping...
Best legendaries I've seen are .. boss loot. Preferably the things a boss uses while fighting, with some version of the boss's combat moves implemented into an effect. Second best, a combination of crafting and questing, towards a lore-reasonable thing... In 7dtd terms..
- you loot a rare "insight" from a cop zombie. "This could become something useful"
- you might go discuss your insight with a gunsmith NPC (once such things are in, if ever)
- you end up getting a quest to harvest 2 rad cops for their acid-spewing giblets. (drop, or a specific harvest tool, or something)
- you use the giblets to craft / (or have the gunsmith craft) a legendary two-barrel acid-bomb-spewing shotgun. if you use shotgun ammo, or something more nasty to feed it, it's up to anyone's imagination.
- is it any good? I dunno, but it's a whole lot more legendary than a "shotgun+1" from the creation ..
Add steps, remove steps, but have it involve doing something special at least. Other than opening the T6 Infestation end loot ...
Skip the first step and just make it a quest triggered when you hit max magazines for whatever item type, and I'd be generally okay with this. Otherwise it requires me to go out and farm zombies (it might drop during horde night, sure, but I might not get the chance to loot it before it despawns.)You made me think, now you suffer the ping...
Best legendaries I've seen are .. boss loot. Preferably the things a boss uses while fighting, with some version of the boss's combat moves implemented into an effect. Second best, a combination of crafting and questing, towards a lore-reasonable thing... In 7dtd terms..
- you loot a rare "insight" from a cop zombie. "This could become something useful"
- you might go discuss your insight with a gunsmith NPC (once such things are in, if ever)
- you end up getting a quest to harvest 2 rad cops for their acid-spewing giblets. (drop, or a specific harvest tool, or something)
- you use the giblets to craft / (or have the gunsmith craft) a legendary two-barrel acid-bomb-spewing shotgun. if you use shotgun ammo, or something more nasty to feed it, it's up to anyone's imagination.
- is it any good? I dunno, but it's a whole lot more legendary than a "shotgun+1" from the creation ..
Add steps, remove steps, but have it involve doing something special at least. Other than opening the T6 Infestation end loot ...
Basically, the magazines already force me to spend more time looting than I want to, adding more things that require me to spend more time looting is just telling me even more that wanting to be primarily a builder isn't a supported playstyle in the game any longer.
Kosmic Kerman
New member
Because there needs to be a reason to loot after you have maxed your weapons through crafting which happens pretty early. It’s been pretty clear that TFP believes looting is a core element of the game. Q7, legendary, or rare items provide this reason. No particular game owes you what you want, when you want it, or how you want it. If you don’t share TFP’s vision, the game is easy to mod yourself and there are a plenty of mods that change crafting and skill progression. What TFP can’t do is half-ass the core mechanics to be all things to all people. If questing and looting are to be a lynchpin of the game, TFP needs to provide a meaningful reason to quest and loot after you’ve maxed your chosen weapons through crafting.
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Riamus
Well-known member
Crafting is just as much part of core gameplay as looting, though. And TFP made that clear with the recent changes to get people crafting more instead of looting. I highly doubt they'll add Q7 to vanilla except potentially as a DLC after gold. And if they do, it's extremely unlikely to be limited to looting. They said they may be adding more to the "legendary" (Q6) items to make them more interesting, but they'll still be craftable. That's probably the most we'll see for high quality items.
When and if TFP adds legendary items, they will sit around a conference table, talk about the options and any ideas they have and then implement the "best(tm)" idea or ideas, no matter what currently the rule is. It was not a big move to make q6 craftable because those items were nothing special at all and non-random. And "real" legendary weapons are not on the roadmap, so very probably not added soon.
But, and that is my opinion, if real legendary weapons with **random** bonuses get added, then they should be loot-only. One big reason is the possibility for an endless looting loop for people who want that and another that it just doesn't make sense to have a directed process where you just craft one legendary weapon after another of the same type to find the best combo, even if you need to find a "legendary crafting dongle" for it. I as a looter player would not add a single hour of game play for that.
What about all the non-looties who want the best weapon too? One possibility is that you can craft a legendary weapon, but it has a fixed bonus that is comparable but "boring", i.e. like the legendary weapons now. Or that it has a slightly bigger fixed bonus than what you can find in loot, but loot has two bonuses, at least one random. Another possibility is saying this is a sandbox and that also means, don't select goals you don't want to do. If you still chase after legendaries even though you don't like looting then that is your own fault.
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