PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

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Hi, guys.  I haven't been around for while because I thought a few months off would help the development time pass faster.  I gotta say, I'm surprised to see this thread not replaced by one for A22 yet... I know, you've been talking about it, I read the last few pages.  I was going to make a mostly-joke about that being because they were planning to surprise us by saying, "Haha, there is no A22, next up is 1.0!" but I see someone already did on this very page.  I haven't been able to find anything about why there's not a countdown to A22 yet.  Can I assume the reason is that it's still many months away?

 
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I wonder if Bandits are a case of "bit off more than we could chew."

It isn't just a zombie reskin; these may have firearms.

I see balance issues, definitely. Playing with the NPC mod, I found there were times the wife and I were simply ambushed by a single opponent who took us both down before we figured out from where the shots were coming. Bad enough on lower difficulties. On higher, I don't think many players will appreciate being shot for 80% of their health, dance around trying to look for them, get shot again and... dead.

Do the Bandits have advanced AI with the same weapons we have? Kiss your playthrough goodbye. Do they dumb down the Bandits by making them blind outside of 8 blocks? Nerf their firearm damage? I imagine this isn't going to be easy.

 
I guess they would add some red dots as markers in the compass on the top part of the screen as they do with enemies in quests.

They better do it, because you got a good point here and balance is pretty much what will make them good addition or a bad one. 

 
I would assume good methods to nerf bandits would be range, accuracy and damage, as well as keeping them to specific areas.

Especially accuracy and damage could be tuned to be very bad or even guaranteed misses the first few shots and then continually improving. That way you would always have time to just go behind some corner and give yourself time to orient.

Also bandits could very well only occur in bandit camps (and then in the center of cities only) and possibly as wandering hordes in late game. After all bandits may be end-game opponents only, at least that was the plan stated by TFP a long time ago.

Modders often tune their mods for advanced players and they expect those players to know how to handle them even at low level. TFP has to think about novice players, IMHO it is very likely that experienced players will be a bit dissappointed by the difficulty bandits actually provide. Though if they are relegated to end game you should expect difficulty on par or even higher than the demolisher, but only if you play that far.

EDIT: Just a wild guess, but maybe they hope to make them really dangerous only if they act as a group, i.e. that a single bandit is easy to kill because you can easily exploit its AI, but in a group you would have a few bandits pinning you down with low damage shots while two others try to narrow the distance to get in shotgun range. So in mid-game you would see single bandits, but the real danger would come with groups of bandits.

 
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I would assume good methods to nerf bandits would be range, accuracy and damage, as well as keeping them to specific areas.

Especially accuracy and damage could be tuned to be very bad or even guaranteed misses the first few shots and then continually improving. That way you would always have time to just go behind some corner and give yourself time to orient.

Also bandits could very well only occur in bandit camps (and then in the center of cities only) and possibly as wandering hordes in late game. After all bandits may be end-game opponents only, at least that was the plan stated by TFP a long time ago.

Modders often tune their mods for advanced players and they expect those players to know how to handle them even at low level. TFP has to think about novice players, IMHO it is very likely that experienced players will be a bit dissappointed by the difficulty bandits actually provide. Though if they are relegated to end game you should expect difficulty on par or even higher than the demolisher, but only if you play that far.

EDIT: Just a wild guess, but maybe they hope to make them really dangerous only if they act as a group, i.e. that a single bandit is easy to kill because you can easily exploit its AI, but in a group you would have a few bandits pinning you down with low damage shots while two others try to narrow the distance to get in shotgun range. So in mid-game you would see single bandits, but the real danger would come with groups of bandits.


Ranged enemies is a fun topic.  Gaming has been dumbing ranged AI down for years so players don't get frustrated fighting them.

The magic sauce imo, is dumbing them down just enough where most players don't realize AND have a challenging / fun experience.

If you have ever experienced 100% detection no miss aimbots from 1000 meters away, you know what I mean. 😆

 
Ranged enemies is a fun topic.  Gaming has been dumbing ranged AI down for years so players don't get frustrated fighting them.

The magic sauce imo, is dumbing them down just enough where most players don't realize AND have a challenging / fun experience.

If you have ever experienced 100% detection no miss aimbots from 1000 meters away, you know what I mean. 😆


Right. I would consider the "goblins" in the Plains in Valheim a good example. They have bows and (largely depending on your equipment) they can kill you with say 4 or 5 hits. They always announce their presence through shouts but they are small and can be invisible in high grass. A single one is easy as you only need to run in any direction except straight at him to avoid being hit and you can see the arrows flying to know where he is. They also shoot slowly so you have time to orient or run to them between shots. But have 2 or more shooting at you from different directions or in group with melee goblings they get rather deadly. 

Now bandits will have guns and it will be more difficult to spot bullets flying at you. But the AI could just be programmed to always shoot in the direction you were a split second before. And similar to the player shooting the bandit could have a circle of accuracy in which he would hit randomly. Result: If you are standing still you would get hit with say 50 to 90% probability on mid range, but if you are running around that probability would go down to 5 to 20% automatically.

In effect you would have no difficulty fighting with a single bandit if he needs say 5 or more hits to kill you. But against a group those low probabilites would get you killed if you can't find cover or eliminate some of them very fast

 
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I wonder if Bandits are a case of "bit off more than we could chew."

It isn't just a zombie reskin; these may have firearms.

I see balance issues, definitely. Playing with the NPC mod, I found there were times the wife and I were simply ambushed by a single opponent who took us both down before we figured out from where the shots were coming. Bad enough on lower difficulties. On higher, I don't think many players will appreciate being shot for 80% of their health, dance around trying to look for them, get shot again and... dead.

Do the Bandits have advanced AI with the same weapons we have? Kiss your playthrough goodbye. Do they dumb down the Bandits by making them blind outside of 8 blocks? Nerf their firearm damage? I imagine this isn't going to be easy.
I love the work done on NPCmod, but you can't compare that to what TFP will do. Most of what is used in NPCmod is just old TFP code/AI. They will likely balance them the same as zombies. Lower difficulty means they do less damage, maybe accuracy, etc. I'm sure they will be good, and will only help us modders do even more with them.

 
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Ranged enemies is a fun topic.  Gaming has been dumbing ranged AI down for years so players don't get frustrated fighting them.

The magic sauce imo, is dumbing them down just enough where most players don't realize AND have a challenging / fun experience.

If you have ever experienced 100% detection no miss aimbots from 1000 meters away, you know what I mean. 😆


Off the top of my head, I'd say the most annoying "sniper AI" ever (games I've played of course) Grenadiers from The Division: countless "rage quit mode"....lol

 
In the NPC mod, the nastiest firearm-wielder we faced was one standing in a dense cornfield. We couldn't see him, but he saw us. I'm certain that can be programmed sight-wise so it doesn't feel overwhelming.

In other games, perhaps the best way I've seen an AI firearm opponent handled to force firing pauses and give away location is for the AI to fire a shot, then move positions - to different cover. Then fire again. Fire, move, fire move. On the one hand, it is very believable and true to some historical accounts from the World Wars. On the other, it is a very subtle way of alerting one to their presence, giving a visual movement indicator to give away their position, while at the same time slowing their rate of fire.

I think this is likely what Laz is hinting.

 
Hey, there was an update today, but I don't see any news about it! Anybody know what that was all about?

I know it was today because I played just yesterday.

EDIT: Oh it was a Microsoft Store (lol) hotfix.

 
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So the cheer leader, football player and the old farmer zombies have been removed... I wonder if they plan on re-skinning those to add more variety rather than just a change of wardrobe??
That would be kinda cool but. Tbh I would rather then do something that's more.... constant, the farmer is fine but how many people would be dressed as a football player to cheerleader. 

I would rather have like a solder in just BDUs, or maybe zombies wearing sports jerseys 

 
That would be kinda cool but. Tbh I would rather then do something that's more.... constant, the farmer is fine but how many people would be dressed as a football player to cheerleader. 

I would rather have like a solder in just BDUs, or maybe zombies wearing sports jerseys 
Idk, if I was bitten and knew the end was nigh, I’d don my Totoro pajamas and hide out in an armoire of an elaborately staged mansion basement sub-level hidden research station. All my clones would do the same thing and share all my thriller dance moves too. 

 
That would be kinda cool but. Tbh I would rather then do something that's more.... constant, the farmer is fine but how many people would be dressed as a football player to cheerleader. 

I would rather have like a solder in just BDUs, or maybe zombies wearing sports jerseys 
well, this happened around halloween supposedly from back stories around a9 time. so football season, depending on the time of day, how many high school, college, pro and semi pro games happen at that time and what are they wearing, including fans?

 
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Idk, if I was bitten and knew the end was nigh, I’d don my Totoro pajamas and hide out in an armoire of an elaborately staged mansion basement sub-level hidden research station. All my clones would do the same thing and share all my thriller dance moves too. 
Well..


Spoiler



 
I have not posted in a while, so here is some info for January:

RWG is getting some improvements for A22. Alloc and I have reduced memory use a huge amount. I have also been working on performance with stamping now many times faster. I plan on looking at road generation speed next as is the slowest system now. Better messaging. Some fixes for seeds not being consistent and possibly other bugs like biomes not matching percents.

I started prototyping sleeper volumes having a simple embedded scripting system for more control over spawning.

Our gfx programmer is adding new hair shaders, contact shadows and ambient occlusion.

The player profile editor has been updated for the new player models.

Console features are getting more functional and refined each week.

 
I have not posted in a while, so here is some info for January:

RWG is getting some improvements for A22. Alloc and I have reduced memory use a huge amount. I have also been working on performance with stamping now many times faster. I plan on looking at road generation speed next as is the slowest system now. Better messaging. Some fixes for seeds not being consistent and possibly other bugs like biomes not matching percents.

I started prototyping sleeper volumes having a simple embedded scripting system for more control over spawning.

Our gfx programmer is adding new hair shaders, contact shadows and ambient occlusion.

The player profile editor has been updated for the new player models.

Console features are getting more functional and refined each week.
Thank you for the update. Quick question... are they going to add the Yucca Battle Thong for the male desert armor?

 
I have not posted in a while, so here is some info for January:

RWG is getting some improvements for A22. Alloc and I have reduced memory use a huge amount. I have also been working on performance with stamping now many times faster. I plan on looking at road generation speed next as is the slowest system now. Better messaging. Some fixes for seeds not being consistent and possibly other bugs like biomes not matching percents.

I started prototyping sleeper volumes having a simple embedded scripting system for more control over spawning.

Our gfx programmer is adding new hair shaders, contact shadows and ambient occlusion.

The player profile editor has been updated for the new player models.

Console features are getting more functional and refined each week.


I don't know if you can share this or not, but will the new player characters have much in the way of editable features/morphs (facial... or rough body build/proportions morphs, like say we wanna play a tall himbo or the *ahem* rotund comic book guy), or is there simply going to be a library of stock presets of heads (and maybe bodies)?

I'm fully fine either way, considering that aside from changing skin tone and hair colour, right now you can make all of *two* characters; just excited and curious about what sort of options we're going to get.

 
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