PC Fundamentals of Survivor

BFT2020 said:
Uh those are typically nuts / bolts, not screws.  You don't screw a tire onto a vehicle, you attached it to the studs and drive a nut down to keep it in place.  Remind me to never allow meganoth to work on any of my vehicles  🤪

I mean, you can use screws instead of bolts if that is your desire, but I would recommend nobody ride with you in your 4x4😁
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Thanks for the correction, I will re-edit my post and then your post will look strangely out of place 😁

 
meganoth said:
What we are trying to tell you is that containers like the water jars exist in the world of 7 days to die, but they are NOT simulated as separate items.
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His point seems to be same most other complainer's; our character seems @%$#ed at the lake, unable to pick up water in to the unlimited water jars available everywhere. The phrasing is about jars since that's what the significant change is, but the main point is still the "unable to purify lake water" mechanic suuuucks.

As long as you keep arguing about the "jar simulation", you're never going actually reach anyone who complains about the change, because that's not the logic breaking / conflicting issue at hand. Having a puddle of water you can drink out of, but can't utilize as "water" seems to be.

In case I'm just projecting my own issues, here's how I see it: the OP wants to have "one jar"; that "one jar" would be permanent and allow the work of boiling the lake water to be used for whatever. As long as the jar is permanent, it's essentially the same as having plenty - you'll just have to do your mass production sequentially. His phrasing of the issue points to "having a way to handle natural waters is survival essentials" and yes, that to me sounds exactly the same as "not being able to purify lake water suuuuucks as an idea".

 
I think that 1 permanent jar does not make game easy. Dozens of jars is nonsense and it does but only 1 is normal thing. It is the first and the last thing in your inventory in real life when trying to survive. You can include some mechanism that when zombie hits you there will be some change that jar will be broken and you will loose it. If you have only 1 jar, you need to decide if you take water, tea or coffea to your next traveling to unknown place. When you drink it because of thirsty on a way so then you have to find some source of water. I you set to generate map with few lakes and rivers, then it can be very funny challange. 
I really understand what you want to achieve but the way is not logic. In real life, you will not loose jar or bottle after drinking from it. It is true, simply. In this game now loosing it makes confusion and my next step is not to fill jar by water from lake a stay next to it but it forces me to go find new one what is not challenge but stupidity, sorry for it.

So you can also disabling harvesting wood and only wood wich you can have is which you find by looting. You have axe, chainsaw....but cannot harvest wood. It is the same.

According to me balacing the game to be more challenging is about setting limits and not about removing real life mechanism.

Anyway, I respect all of you creating this game, it is mastepiese despite of my claiming :)


 

 
Urban Blackbear said:
Ever play The Long Dark? When I boil water in that game it just assumes I gathered snow. It doesn't make me run outside, gather snow in my pot and bring it back to set on the stove. Then the boiled water goes into a milk jug in the inventory.
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Never played it, but I believe is a snow biome only, right?  how do you get to the point of having the "snow"?  It assumes since you are there you can gather it, right?

That there sounds pretty easy to me.

So, in essence those with the "issue" (me included) are not asking for the Jars to come back.  They are asking for an ability to go by water and collect it and boil it.  If the developers want to make "easy mode" like you describe, then make me be near the water.  I dont see where "braving" the elements and going to get water is "easier" than what you describe.

However, there are items in the game to allow you to collect it.  Just removing a mechanic because they needed to align the "item" and hoping it would make it harder as well is a failure. 

In closing IT IS NOT about the Jars.

 
Rotor said:
Never played it, but I believe is a snow biome only, right?  how do you get to the point of having the "snow"?  It assumes since you are there you can gather it, right?

That there sounds pretty easy to me.

So, in essence those with the "issue" (me included) are not asking for the Jars to come back.  They are asking for an ability to go by water and collect it and boil it.  If the developers want to make "easy mode" like you describe, then make me be near the water.  I dont see where "braving" the elements and going to get water is "easier" than what you describe.

However, there are items in the game to allow you to collect it.  Just removing a mechanic because they needed to align the "item" and hoping it would make it harder as well is a failure. 

In closing IT IS NOT about the Jars.
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I don't care about the removal of jars and I don't care to argue about it. Find someone else.

 
RStarphoenix said:
I get the feeling the crying about jars/cans isn't because of mechanics, it's because people lost easy-mode survival with infinite water.
The more I hear justifications about why they should exist, the less reason they should exist. And we never needed them based on how the

game plays now. Water is still way too easy to collect & produce.
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%1000 agree with this.

 
Wave said:
Hey guys,
I understand to yours argumentation but apparently you did not get the point I am trying to explain. I love playing games on hard mode, especially survival games like this one. I set looting to 33% for example.

Is it clear? Is it enough of explanation that I am not crying but just suggesting more logic to survival mechanism?
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You absolutely lost me again with these two critically opposed viewpoints.    Also, I didn't read anywhere about you crying about it specifically.  It's just an ongoing thing where you choose the unpopular opinion.

I'm going to give you a wordy monologue to help you settle this internally if you need it:  The Fun Pimps have a track record of never moving backwards on this game.   The most of us often hear the constant thrum of posts saying much of what you have said, "This is logical, why is it not in game!?"   And the gist of those discussions always seem to return to the same square in recognition that LOTS of things are logical, but the ones that have been chosen are in play for a reason, even if you don't understand why that reason doesn't resemble yours or mine.   So naturally, many of these sort of threads come off as some sort of ill-informed projection of player expectations and frustration.   I'll even go so far as to say some of their viewpoints actually make sense, and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with them on paper.  That doesn't always mean its worthwhile to implement due to a host of factors that can be elusive to us as players.  Some things seem easy on the outside, but on the inside it could be a nightmare in waiting, or worse yet... a nightmare that unfolds down the line and one might not have the ability to put out that fire.  Compromises sometimes have to made.

 
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My only problem with water is that is far too abundant in loot. I suppose they lost their nerve and made it too plentiful in loot afraid that players wouldn’t be able to stay hydrated and quit playing. Before the release of 21.0 water was a lot more scarce and the dew collector was pretty important. Since the release of 21.0 the subsequent updates seem to have been adjusting the abundance of water in loot to a much higher level. 
 

In early testing you often had to drink directly from lakes rivers and gutters because there was very little water to be found. It is just everywhere now. 

 
theFlu said:
His point seems to be same most other complainer's; our character seems @%$#ed at the lake, unable to pick up water in to the unlimited water jars available everywhere. The phrasing is about jars since that's what the significant change is, but the main point is still the "unable to purify lake water" mechanic suuuucks.

As long as you keep arguing about the "jar simulation", you're never going actually reach anyone who complains about the change, because that's not the logic breaking / conflicting issue at hand. Having a puddle of water you can drink out of, but can't utilize as "water" seems to be.

In case I'm just projecting my own issues, here's how I see it: the OP wants to have "one jar"; that "one jar" would be permanent and allow the work of boiling the lake water to be used for whatever. As long as the jar is permanent, it's essentially the same as having plenty - you'll just have to do your mass production sequentially. His phrasing of the issue points to "having a way to handle natural waters is survival essentials" and yes, that to me sounds exactly the same as "not being able to purify lake water suuuuucks as an idea".
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His scheme is broken in more than one way, it isn't even more realistic. He wants to create a magical jar that you only can have one of. And there is no other container in the world that can hold water except this one. That is as illogical as having no way to get water from a lake. I simply didn't care to dissect his scheme.

The post I was replying to was mostly how illogical it is that a bottle magically vanishes, in different words, except for one comment about the lake. I am sure he has a problem with not being able to get water from the lake. But he also hasn't really understood what it means to just have no containers simulated in the game and I was trying to explain the latter as it is the more fundamental problem or it just irks me more.

 
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I think it just comes down to what you value more: immersion from simulation of the details or challenge from game mechanics. I’m definitely in favor of game mechanics that bring interesting choices and challenges at the expense of simulated details. Quite a few people would rather have the details and probably couldn’t care less about water struggle even being an aspect of the early game. Other survival games that don’t even track thirst at all exist and are popular. 
 

The problem is that TFP at some point removed the challenge that used to exist, I suppose deeming it was too harsh for a vanilla experience, and now nobody has either unless you play 50% loot. That brings back the water struggle much closer to what I experienced pre A21 release. 

 
BFT2020 said:
You don't screw a tire onto a vehicle, you attached it to the studs and drive a nut down to keep it in place
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You'd be surprised how common it is otherwhere on the world to have tire/wheel screws instead of nuts.

A great thing to store screws is a glass jar btw.

Pretty damn useful thing, wish we could have some in the game, I can imagine other use cases too...like getting water from a lake.

Will post that in the pimp dreams section.

 
The jars logical disconnect goes away if you can accept that ground water is dirty enough so that it can never be effectively purified with what you have available, but still potable enough to be drinkable in an emergency.

Sure it would be more 'realistic' if you could collect 'really, really murky water' (that can't be purified) from water sources, but the gameplay doesn't really need it.

A lot of the grumbles I see come from folks who are fundamentally irked by 'game not being close enough to RL', who don't recognise that deviating from 'realism' in order to foster good gameplay is a good thing.

Yes we could 'not need a skillup to put meat on a grill' but then we'd need more low tier, useless when you get past them, cooking recipes and more 'don't exist in the real world' high tier recipes. If you can cook grilled meat on day one, then grilled meat would be a low fullness/costs hydration recipe like all the other 'starter' foods, and we'd need something else to replace it as the 'decent fullness, doesn't cost hydration' option that rewards skilling up cooking.

Weapons are the same. Yes we could have 100 weapon variants, but TFP seem (wisely) wedded to the idea that a weapon choice is seriously impactful in game terms. Using a shotgun plays very differently to a sniper rifle. How would using an FN FAL or a Steyr AUG be fundamentally different to the TAC rifle? It wouldn't be, so TFP don't bother putting such variants into the game.

 
meganoth said:
His scheme is broken in more than one way, it isn't even more realistic.
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Sure, I agree that the infinity jar isn't any more realistic, but it is clearly trying to fix the issue of "can't find water standing next to a lake". It's a weird fix, for sure, but so is the "well, you just can't" ... at lest it would remedy the situation :)

In the gas cans analogue you like to go with; the water situation currently feels roughly like:

- You can loot gas "in cans" from a barrel, no probs.

- You can also loot a fuel pump, see the fuel there, but can't take it - "because you don't have a gas can on you". You can only put it in your vehicle directly.

(This would be more realistic than the water situation as real pumps work in mysterious ways, but I wouldn't advocate for the change.. :) )

 
Fuel:

I want it, I go to a car, havest some, take it with me to use and/or store it for later.

Water:

I want it, I can go to a lake, take it with me to use and/or store it for later.....not.

And people who are complaining about this "logic" have a "broken sheme" 🤔

I already suggested a "drip collector" workstation, (some tind of tarp you put under a car, and it collects a certain amount of fuel a day that is leaking from the tank)

But nobody responded.😛😬

 
theFlu said:
Sure, I agree that the infinity jar isn't any more realistic, but it is clearly trying to fix the issue of "can't find water standing next to a lake". It's a weird fix, for sure, but so is the "well, you just can't" ... at lest it would remedy the situation :)
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No it would not, as he wants the change so it would be more realistic. It would replace one unrealistic situation with another.

 
meilodasreh said:
🤔

Now I still can't tell the exact difference between screws and bolts, but the difference between screws/bolts and nuts stays obvious.
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Allow me, first you have a Jar, then you put water in it, then you screw on the cap. :).

BMW wheels bolt on...another reason I have a love/hate affair with them.

See the difference?

I dont either :).

 
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not sure whether people didn't get the point or just wants to bug me...or this is all just some language problem.

Anyway, for everybody's total-off-topic information:

They both exist.

nutstudboltwhatever.jpg

 
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