PC No jars allowed. How about this?

4sheetzngeegles

4sheetzngeegles

Well-known member
Just another alternative vanilla thought regarding water survival.

Action: Assign slot 10 to canteen.

Question: Why did you call it a canteen slot if it just looks like the same old water jar?
Answer: Just as Roland and Joel have said multiple times it is an abstract representation.
Basically it is a visual representation of what is inside.

Player needs to find one first. Possibly make it the first Quest. Either with an initial map,
and a treasure hunt.
And/or it can be the first quest given to the player after completing the initial guide, given
by the Trader as an introduce yourself quest.

Question: Why take away one of the slots just to put this here?
Answer: Watching many playthroughs, shows player tendency to use slots for Em supplies, and food
stuffs. So not completely intrusive.

Question: How does it work and what's so different? How does that help?
Answer: Find canteen key in quest, click it and the jar appears with an ! or a number in it 1-6. The jar
! means empty, 1-6 are unlocked through perk. It can be used at a water source, to capture water. It then
can be used at a campfire to be boiled. "Prerequisite you must stay within proximity to receive the water
back.

Question: Well, won't people just camp at a water source and still boil tones of bottles.
Answer: No, you cant transfer this to you back pack. No, It only sends the water back to the canteen, as an
indexed item similar to weapons returning to the same slot. When the boil action is complete, either it goes
to the canteen or is wasted.

Question: Why is 1-6 used.
Answer: Consistency, six tiers, familiar concept. Each amount unlocks a larger storage volume, can be perk point,
Or based on cumulative points.

Question: So what is the big difference between this and just getting a cooking pot, I don't see it?
Answer: The canteen is for personal on the fly consumption, The cooking pot is for volume storage.
The canteen can be used directly at a water source, The cooking pot, first must be found or bought, and depends
on murky water jars in inventory first.

Question: How does this fit in gameplay?
Answer: It takes longer to use canteen to boil water, It can be used in mid exploration just as the backpack jars
can, but it also frees a slot in the backpack, for carrying loot. When playing, only a specific amount of water is
needed, depending on activity.

Question: So, what water source are you talking about?
Answer: Moving water, pre-boiled water, Dew collectors, collected murky water, etc.

It uses the pre-existing mechanics, pre-existing model. Can be considered part of role play, balances RNG, does not take
away the value of any pre-existing mechanics or models. Allows potentially for longer camping treks, when you go walkabout,
having to go back prematurely, because of water, interrupts gameplay. Is primarily for early game, but if used in this way,
can seamlessly mature to be compatible with the long game.

 
Not bad.  As long as is not a quest only item or buy only from trader.  Ala water filter.  Or I guess it will be another MOD like craft water filter MOD.

 
How I thought of it. I acted as if I were going to create a mod, because of a
friend requesting it. How could I make it part of the game, instead of a work around.

I didn't think of the water filter, but with a filter you don't need to boil water.
For this you would. It's sort of like an RPG camping tool, to fill the gap between all or

nothing.

But i do agree, if it were added from the beginning, it should be available
from either source. Beginners could simply dig it up, or at the Trader; a here you
go, introduction. Different people play different ways, and each should have a choice.

 
A 3 drink canteen seems pretty balanced to me. That's a full days water taken care of. If it's hard limited to 1 per person, then I don't think it's over powered. Much in the way you don't find or "equip" a backpack. Make a canteen be a slot attached to the backpack that you add as an accessory. Which makes losing your backpack that much worse when you die. The canteen it attached to it, so if you don't retrieve it, then you need to find/make a new one.

 
I like that option of loss on death penalty, if it's hard coded. that would tie it into
a non permadeth play through. Permadeth you lose it anyway, so it would balanced between the two.

I originally, had set it to 3 in the beginning, because i figured it out when i used the dew collector.
The reason for the suggestion of 6 is because i had thought of a what if they up the ante and start using
the the Weight attribute before gold. So that the player that has a long play, they would be more active,
or any class that concentrates on heavier resource carry, late game would still have a basic water supply.
A reward for surviving above ten horde days.

When I make requests now, I try to focus on how I've observed the changes, from my start to present, then I think
is it adaptable enough to blend in, after the dev cycle concludes.

So in my mind I thought, base the additional volume on a risk reward sort of basis, using 2 values for the progression.
A specific amount of xp, and horde days played. In other words the amount of activeity, for those that play with horde
turned off, and not to allow it to instantly be rendered moot by a player that just does a killmonger playthrough.

The equation for each single volume increase
horde count = days survived
     3             21 days   +  1 drink  casual
     5             35 days   +  1 drink  basicsingle/coop
     6             42 days   +  1 drink  basicsingle/coop/long term
     7             49 days   +  1 drink  basicsingle/coop/long term/streamers
     8             56 days   +  1 drink  mine craft with a little survival aspectjust build
     9             63 days   +  1 drink  mine craft just build
    
That was the whole thought. Any game played is for a reward of some sort, except my son, he played for angst value.
I could tell when it was time to go outside for safe talk. He would play any FPS, especially sniper elite, and just
shot everyone in the groin. Time to get some tea, pause the game and go outside to let him vent.

 
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I forgot to add this, before. What i meant in the conversation between Rotor and myself.
I wrote that it was to help fill a gap.

What I meant is that I look at, the mechanics vs necessities vs flow. Primary need thirst, secondary
additional foodstuffs, tertiary is increased resources needed to craft. But when I played it
felt a little like they were working against each other.

You need to drink or your game ends, doing quests for the grind of collecting filters takes
away from RPG use of the Trades. Increasing the root resources to create something tangible and
necessary, was a bit over powered in a mathematical equation. It can be done, it's just that it
feels more forced than need be.

So i came up with the thought, If basic survival got a supplement, because you are only able to
store 1 drink, an emergency drink until a 21st day it's not over powered. By the 21st day with constant

foraging local pois are empty, and on average a player has begun to branch out further, now you can

store 2/3 of drinking water needed for activity.

Now the Dew Collectors would have an intrinsic supplemental role. The art of Poi Raiding, would yield

the rest of the water needed from loot containers. So instead of an isosceles you would have closer to

an equilateral triangle or balance for survival vs raw play through. 

 
maybe this was already noted, but the different slots could be for different filter types as well.  It could use the helmet water filter mod to remove the health and dysentery from murky water.

 
3 drink canteen tops. 10 would just be mod yourself jars back in at that point.

game has entirely too much water as it is, even with the dew collector and thirst is still not much of a problem early game.

 
@RStarphoenix

Not 10 jars, i suggested that it be locked to the tenth slot in the utility belt. Then @Warmer suggested it

be a slot attachment on the back pack instead.  You wouldn't unlock the third jar until playing at least 35

days and surviving 5 horde nights. But the number should still be low or as you say, or why not just mod it

back in as @Rotor  pointed out.

 
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4sheetzngeegles said:
 But the number should still be low or as you say, or why not just mod it

back in as @Rotor  pointed out.
Click to expand...


My "MOD" comment, was more in the realm of "if it is trader only" then I will have to find me a mod.

I don't like the trader centricity (I think I just made that word up?) some of these changes take, like the water filter.  So, I look for MODs that allow me to do stuff away from trader.

 
I imagine newer players might find this a bit more in line with their experiences.  As a seasoned vet, I've yet to have water troubles both in MP/SP.

 
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