PC What was the point of the water change?

[Roland]

It's more of a case of not having a way to gather and carry water in a realistic way anymore.

I think the "anymore" is the biggest issue really. There are many veterans who have made the switch in their brain and are not bothered by the inability to fill a container of water directly from a lake or river. New players seem to take the limitation in stride along with many of the other nonrealistic elements that are for the sake of gameplay. So really, the only problem comes from those veterans who can't get past the "anymore".

On the other hand, doing something so unrealistic doesn't make sense, and removing them and adding dew collectors didn't really fix the problem the Fun Pimps believed we were having. Water is just as easy to get as it was prior to the removal of jars, it's just easy in a different way now.

Gotta disagree here. If water is just as easy but just in a different way then I challenge you to get 54 jars of fresh water by day 2 in your different way....

I'm not sure what problem you believe TFP believed we were having but someone else said it best. Pre A21 nobody had to even think about water. Even Arez said that he was just playing and picking up jars as he went, found a cooking pot, and bam without any effort or thought put toward water he had 54 jars of drinkable water by day two. That sounds pretty typical of pre-A21 gameplay for most people. As of A21 you have to at least think about water. Even if you are looting enough to drink are you looting enough to also craft or are there times when you have to choose between crafting and drinking? That choice has appeared for me several times as of A21 when it NEVER happened once from A6 - A20. I'm betting it has been similar for most players. If you do choose to build dew collectors to supplement your water needs then once again you are actively thinking about your water needs and taking action to satisfy your needs. The process of building a dew collector might not be hard (especially for a veteran) but it does compete with other actions you feel you need to take during the early game.

So again, I'm not sure what you mean by "easy to get" but like I said, I doubt you could obtain 54 jars of fresh water by day 2 in A21 and I know that while not being a difficult challenge type of activity, building a dew collector does take more effort and time than passively scooping up 50+ jars while looting containers while clearing pois and then filling them all at once and sticking them on the fire to boil.

And on the third hand (which is my hand), TFP only seem to care about and add something realistic, if it's realism that is detrimental to the player. Beneficial realism? They're not so interested in it. That's what I find annoying about it.

Yeah, you seem to be in the camp of people who think there is some kind of adversarial attitude by the developers towards the players. You're welcome to your opinion but you couldn't be more wrong.
 

As for ignoring realism issues when they benefit the player what about unlimited carrying weight in our backpacks or being able to pick up vehicles into our backpacks and place them again or nerdpoling or having everlasting durability of our gear or never having to sleep, or crops grow in days without irrigation, or food never spoils, or upgrading blocks directly from one type to another, or crafting whole vehicles on a workbench, or crafting anything where it self crafts without you consciously doing anything and being able leave and do other things while waiting for the crafting to be done. 
 

 

[RipClaw]

I think the "anymore" is the biggest issue really. There are many veterans who have made the switch in their brain and are not bothered by the inability to fill a container of water directly from a lake or river. New players seem to take the limitation in stride along with many of the other nonrealistic elements that are for the sake of gameplay. So really, the only problem comes from those veterans who can't get past the "anymore".

I don't think it's just veterans. If you're coming from another game where you can collect water with a flask, for example, you're going to wonder why the developers of this game didn't implement that.

 

[Roland]

I don't think it's just veterans. If you're coming from another game where you can collect water with a flask, for example, you're going to wonder why the developers of this game didn't implement that.

Wondering is different than what we’ve seen here from some veterans. When I’ve played Minecraft or Valheim I’ve wondered why I don’t have to drink anything at all and I never get thirsty even though I get hungry. But then I just accept it as the ruleset for those games and play. I suspect the same is true for people who are new to this one. They figure out the rules, accept them, and play. It’s just like how someone might wonder why we don’t need to water crops for them to grow when they come from other games that have farming. They wonder but they don’t get outraged. 

 

[Laz Man]

I don't think it's just veterans. If you're coming from another game where you can collect water with a flask, for example, you're going to wonder why the developers of this game didn't implement that.

I've heard the canteen idea before.  It's not bullet proof and also comes with other considerations as well.  Not saying it couldn't work but would need to be well designed.

For example, how much can you fill a canteen?  How well does it scale with the rest of the game as far as water needs are concerned?  Do players use canteen water for crafting or only drinking?  What about teas?  Is it fun?

 

[Old Crow]

I think the "anymore" is the biggest issue really. There are many veterans who have made the switch in their brain and are not bothered by the inability to fill a

Gotta disagree here. If water is just as easy but just in a different way then I challenge you to get 54 jars of fresh water by day 2 in your different way....

I'm not sure what problem you believe TFP believed we were having but someone else said it best. Pre A21 nobody had to even think about water. Even Arez said that he was just playing and picking up jars as he went, found a cooking pot, and bam without any effort or thought put toward water he had 54 jars of drinkable water by day two. That sounds pretty typical of pre-A21 gameplay for most people. As of A21 you have to at least think about water. Even if you are looting enough to drink are you looting enough to also craft or are there times when you have to choose between crafting and drinking? That choice has appeared for me several times as of A21 when it NEVER happened once from A6 - A20. I'm betting it has been similar for most players. If you do choose to build dew collectors to supplement your water needs then once again you are actively thinking about your water needs and taking action to satisfy your needs. The process of building a dew collector might not be hard (especially for a veteran) but it does compete with other actions you feel you need to take during the early game.

So again, I'm not sure what you mean by "easy to get" but like I said, I doubt you could obtain 54 jars of fresh water by day 2 in A21 and I know that while not being a difficult challenge type of activity, building a dew collector does take more effort and time than passively scooping up 50+ jars while looting containers while clearing pois and then filling them all at once and sticking them on the fire to boil.

Yeah, you seem to be in the camp of people who think there is some kind of adversarial attitude by the developers towards the players. You're welcome to your opinion but you couldn't be more wrong.
 

As for ignoring realism issues when they benefit the player what about unlimited carrying weight in our backpacks or being able to pick up vehicles into our backpacks and place them again or nerdpoling or having everlasting durability of our gear or never having to sleep, or crops grow in days without irrigation, or food never spoils, or upgrading blocks directly from one type to another, or crafting whole vehicles on a workbench, or crafting anything where it self crafts without you consciously doing anything and being able leave and do other things while waiting for the crafting to be done. 
 

If you do enough looting, hitting every toilet and liquor pile you find, then yeah, I bet you could find around 54 bottles of murky water by then. The problem I'm referring to is the one TFP literally told us themselves. I'm not making problems up here, like you seem to believe.

As for ignoring realism, what I'm referring to is, if there's something realistic they could add that would be beneficial to players, they say they won't add it (example, players crawling through 1 block high spaces). But if it's something realistic that is detrimental to the player (ridiculously high vehicle damage from hitting something in a vehicle), then they're all for adding it.

 

[Vaeliorin]

players crawling through 1 block high spaces

This used to be a thing, but they got rid of it (I believe because zombies couldn't go through 1 block high spaces, hence it was "unfair")

 

[Old Crow]

This used to be a thing, but they got rid of it (I believe because zombies couldn't go through 1 block high spaces, hence it was "unfair")

Now it's the other way around. We can't, but zombies can.

 

[mr.devolver]

Huh, why "If we could" ? We have been speculating all the time, and even better, because we had some information from devs and Roland, our speculation is actually based on a some facts!

Another strange sentence. Why are you looking for "reasons related to future plans" ? The reasons are known right now and have nothing to do with any future plans.

I don't think there will ever be a realistical explanation offered. Just like blood-moon will never be explained. And especially zombie metabolism will never be explained. If you are looking for a realistic game you are in the wrong place.

Bah, have a cookie for your metabolism.

 

[Vypoldin]

This is dumb.  It rains all the time, and there are bodies of water everywhere yet, I can only drink water from a glass jar found in a house?

Then the glass jar vanishes?  Okay, I can't find a tin can?  Or a milk jug?  Or a bucket?

Water is not hard to find in the environment.  It's everywhere.  It just seems that the character is to stupid to figure out how to hold it.  

If the goal is make water harder to obtain, then don't put it everywhere.   You can't have daily rainfall and then say water is hard to find.   

And why do you need a filter for rainwater?  You don't.. By definition it's already distilled.   

Scum (the game) has it figured out.   You don't even have to boil all the water... if you know how to find, and identify fresh water.  

 

[RStarphoenix]

Since they fill up in the same time as plants grow up the easiest option is to harvest them at the same time you harvest your farm plots (if you have any), i.e. only every 3 days.

the dew collector fills 1 jar per 8 hours of game time... so it'll max out after 1 full game day. which means you'd have to skip 2 days of collecting water to time it with farm plots

 

[8_Hussars]

And why do you need a filter for rainwater?  You don't.. By definition it's already distilled.  

Rainwater can pick up contaminants from the air when it falls, so it loses its purity and no longer remains distilled water and although industry activity is likely not a factor acid rain could exist.

FWIW, with the radiation zones, the virus, or whatever lore seems appropriate; I consider natural water sources to be contaminated in 7d2d for immersion purposes.

Having said that I would prefer water being even more difficult.  Having to treat water with filters to remove particulates and parasitical organisms and boiling to kill bacteria and viruses.

 

[Rotor]

Having said that I would prefer water being even more difficult.  Having to treat water with filters to remove particulates and parasitical organisms and boiling to kill bacteria and viruses.

Yep, just let me make my filters, as I should be able to do so.  All the elements for filters are already in the game anyways.

I know, I know, there is mod.

 

[zztong]

And why do you need a filter for rainwater?  You don't.. By definition it's already distilled.

It was water vapor until it condensed on a particle of dirt, dust, etc. That particle could even be something radioactive.

The bigger problem is the rainwater collection, which is exposed to insects, bird poop, falling twigs, blowing leaves, and so forth that can introduce all sorts of life. We tend to fill rain barrels and cisterns from the runoff of roofs. Birds poop on the roofs. There's bacteria in bird poop. You're still going to have to boil rainwater.

In Game, Boiled Water would be neat if it had like a 3% chance of dysentery, and then let Iron Gut knock that down to zero. Then change the game's "Mineral Water" into Potable Water.

The best tool for making potable water in the game should be the Chemistry Station.

Somebody suggested it was possible to find healthy "fresh water" in the wilderness. Moving water is better than stagnant water, but it's still full of life, minerals, and possibly contaminates.