PC a21.1 b6 cloth cost increase
- Thread starter fragtzack
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ElCabong
Well-known member
Now that you have put it in perspective, it does make perfect sense. The first home I bought was smaller than that.
Too true. Besides you are going to craft at most 5? I usually only use 2 triples. although I like to have a set of light and heavy armor ready to wear, but that means 4, and I think I've gotten so many as quest rewards/misc loot that I haven't even made any in b16.
I've used many stacks of cloth to make duct tape and I've still got like half a chest full of cloth. I honestly think this was a good change.
pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
@Krougal People always forget mulitplayer. That´s a whooping 3000 cloth for us. I wonder why they even bothered changing the recipe if clothing is to go away anyways.
Also making armor for 5 people needs 500 cloth per player aswell (Steel T5)
So that´s 5500 cloth only for the clothing mods and steel armor. Kinda riddiculous tbh. Not because it is so much. More because getting cloth is kinda not the most fun and exciting part of the game...
It really feels like crafting gets hit more and more in A21 at least for MP. Magazines are only a problem in MP aswell, same for water, don´t even need a dew collector in SP. That´s starting to look like a pattern here.
Also one person can use 3 double clothing pocket mods. Topic is not about the armor ones.
Also making armor for 5 people needs 500 cloth per player aswell (Steel T5)
So that´s 5500 cloth only for the clothing mods and steel armor. Kinda riddiculous tbh. Not because it is so much. More because getting cloth is kinda not the most fun and exciting part of the game...
It really feels like crafting gets hit more and more in A21 at least for MP. Magazines are only a problem in MP aswell, same for water, don´t even need a dew collector in SP. That´s starting to look like a pattern here.
Also one person can use 3 double clothing pocket mods. Topic is not about the armor ones.
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I didn't forget, that means 5 people need to get off their ass and gather cloth.
Yes, I realize that means the 1 store is not going to be enough but once again 5 people can do more
I agree it's a PITA to distribute magazines efficiently but otherwise once again, you should be getting magazines 5x as quickly any way you slice it. So the magazines shouldn't suck anymore than they suck for the rest of us. I mean as a SP I still need pretty much every magazine, weapons excluded but I personally hate being limited to 1 weapon (or even 1 ability trees weapon).
I thought it was the armor, but yes, 3 double clothing mods...once and then you have them forever.
Do you really think it is that much of an issue?
Pernicious
New member
I don't agree with that. There are some gains with larger parties and specialisations of skill. But looting isn't one of them.
If you don't split up, you're looting the same area = divide the same spoils with more people
If you split up, you have to travel further to avoid looting the same area, meaning less efficient.
pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
@Krougal I am not playing MP Coop to go looting POI´s alone. And instanced loot isn´t a thing in this game. So yeah it´s an issue. Especially because we have base mom who does all the farming, cooking, mining and building, a lot of building. She doesn´t like the looting part of the game at all and would never play this game alone, from her 3.5K hours 95% are MP the other 5% are from the prefab editor. And another party member sometimes just likes to go underground and mindlessly hit ores while chatting with us after a hard day at work.
@%$# us for wanting to play like we used to play for nearly 10 years right? Well there is mods ofc, but the general direction is concerning and i fear it´s getting even worse in the future to a point where you need several mods just to beeing able to play in a way that isn´t constant looting. Also the must to use the trader in MP and also in SP if you want to use certain weapons/ammo sucks.
@%$# us for wanting to play like we used to play for nearly 10 years right? Well there is mods ofc, but the general direction is concerning and i fear it´s getting even worse in the future to a point where you need several mods just to beeing able to play in a way that isn´t constant looting. Also the must to use the trader in MP and also in SP if you want to use certain weapons/ammo sucks.
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Ok, but you should be able to clear POIs much faster than a solo. So you should be able to clear more POIs in the same amount of time and therefore get more loot, and quest rewards, which are per person. Any way you slice it, a group should be more effective than a solo.
Ok, so base mom doesn't need gear. Diggy diggy hole guy only needs mining gear. You aren't making a strong case.
As for your second para, that is as much a SP as a MP problem. All of us that don't like the direction the game has taken in one way or another are in that same boat.
I mean you don't like the change, I get it, and that's valid, but don't make some bull@%$# argument that doesn't have anything to do with the problem.
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pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
@Krougal Ah yeah for mining you need no gear? Good to know. Do you even play MP? If not you have no argument at all if you don´t know how it plays now and you sure sound like you have no idea.
And for the screamer hordes that are attracted by the football field of dew collectors you need in MP and wandering hordes at the home base you surely need no gear aswell. All no problem with plantfiber clothes and stone weapons. Because choosing herself a weapon she likes is just stupid right? How dare someone likes the sledge/shotgun combo if no one else in the party does and we can´t provide a lot of magazines for that. Silly us.
And for the screamer hordes that are attracted by the football field of dew collectors you need in MP and wandering hordes at the home base you surely need no gear aswell. All no problem with plantfiber clothes and stone weapons. Because choosing herself a weapon she likes is just stupid right? How dare someone likes the sledge/shotgun combo if no one else in the party does and we can´t provide a lot of magazines for that. Silly us.
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bloodmoth13
New member
No it doesn't make sense
Yes it is worth it
No it doesn't bother me
Yes it is worth it
No it doesn't bother me
Stranded_Napkin
New member
@Krougal the problem is that you're looking at it from only your own point of view. The issue isn't that if you go through POI's as a group, that it can be done quicker. It's that you all have to loot in the first place. What's the point of playing coop if you're really just joined at the hip the whole time. You're supposed to assist each other, not become conjoined twins.
The attitude where you dismiss the need for everybody to loot cloth like chickens with their heads cut off because the inefficient moron of a character needs 200 pieces of cloth to do what 5 should be able to speaks for itself. Cloth is easy to get, that's still as true as ever. That being said, it makes literally no sense that anybody would need 200 pieces of cloth to make a freaking pocket.
If somebody wants to just dig in A21, they have to loot as well. The only way the get around that is if they are willing to spend an eternity in the stone age or somebody else has to also spec into the perks. You do loot magazines when not spec'd into them but at a far slower rate. A21 takes the fun out of all of that.
And holy hell that dbag take on base mom. Doesn't need gear? Thank God I'm not in your party as you appear to leave everybody else high and dry. 3500 hours in game is impossible to achieve without ever having killed a zombie. They still need gear.
Remember this, just because you can dismiss something does not mean it's smart to.
The attitude where you dismiss the need for everybody to loot cloth like chickens with their heads cut off because the inefficient moron of a character needs 200 pieces of cloth to do what 5 should be able to speaks for itself. Cloth is easy to get, that's still as true as ever. That being said, it makes literally no sense that anybody would need 200 pieces of cloth to make a freaking pocket.
If somebody wants to just dig in A21, they have to loot as well. The only way the get around that is if they are willing to spend an eternity in the stone age or somebody else has to also spec into the perks. You do loot magazines when not spec'd into them but at a far slower rate. A21 takes the fun out of all of that.
And holy hell that dbag take on base mom. Doesn't need gear? Thank God I'm not in your party as you appear to leave everybody else high and dry. 3500 hours in game is impossible to achieve without ever having killed a zombie. They still need gear.
Remember this, just because you can dismiss something does not mean it's smart to.
I play coop multiplayer and before the change we had about 10 full stacks of cloth in our parts box and nothing to do with it. We stopped collecting cloth at some unknown earlier day anyway. After the change we actually got rid of those stack with glue production, but then two of us went out, one raided an already looted hotel, the other an already looted savage country (for clothes, beds and curtains) and we had 10 full stacks again. Took us maybe 10 minutes to loot the stuff we left there because it was useless before.
I bet if the looters of any MP group just keep the cloth they find (by wrenching beds or in cupboards or by scraping clothes) then they can easily support the same amount of "homies" without going out of their way. Before the change cloth was one of the items you throw away immediately after day 10. Just think of all the clothes you didn't even care to scrap in your previous game, how much cloth would that make in sum?
That is only a guess though and there needs to be some play testing with fresh new games.
Because of the stack limit I have the feeling it might just make sense to half any drop, harvest and recipe amounts. I.e. this would make no difference for how long you loot to produce anything, but your cloth would occupy half the space of what it does now without changing the stack limit.
I bet if the looters of any MP group just keep the cloth they find (by wrenching beds or in cupboards or by scraping clothes) then they can easily support the same amount of "homies" without going out of their way. Before the change cloth was one of the items you throw away immediately after day 10. Just think of all the clothes you didn't even care to scrap in your previous game, how much cloth would that make in sum?
That is only a guess though and there needs to be some play testing with fresh new games.
Because of the stack limit I have the feeling it might just make sense to half any drop, harvest and recipe amounts. I.e. this would make no difference for how long you loot to produce anything, but your cloth would occupy half the space of what it does now without changing the stack limit.
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pApA^LeGBa
Well-known member
Sure, it´s doable. No one denied that. But do i really wanna miss out on the fun part that is explosive bolts and a rocketlauncher because the devs deceided that cloth fragments are now a crucial item at all times? I mean gathering cloth is not the definiton of fun. And those 5500 are just cloting pocket mods and the last tier of armor.
And as said, the main concern is for me that this seems to be a trend. We now have 3 changes that impact MP in a bad way a lot more than SP, water is even a non issue in SP. Recipes can be modded easily. That´s not the real problem.
Also to mention for all the people who think MP is just the easier version, i´d like to ask how you would like demos at the day 21 horde when you still lack a lot of crafting skills and maybe can´t even craft a chemstation so far? (happened, even with 2 people skilled for workstation magazines and constant looting)
The fact that a lot of people aren´t bothered that crafting skills are now kinda RNG also baffles me.
And as said, the main concern is for me that this seems to be a trend. We now have 3 changes that impact MP in a bad way a lot more than SP, water is even a non issue in SP. Recipes can be modded easily. That´s not the real problem.
Also to mention for all the people who think MP is just the easier version, i´d like to ask how you would like demos at the day 21 horde when you still lack a lot of crafting skills and maybe can´t even craft a chemstation so far? (happened, even with 2 people skilled for workstation magazines and constant looting)
The fact that a lot of people aren´t bothered that crafting skills are now kinda RNG also baffles me.
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5500 sounds so impressive. But when that guy who looted just one savage country brought back 2500 cloth alone (at least that is the number I think he mentioned in chat, might have misheard) then that number isn't that impressive anymore.
And in normal gameplay you wouldn't do anything different, just keep cloth instead of dropping it. You may be surprised how much you would bring back every day and all it costs is another inventory slot.
The important info here would be what type of weapons did you have and how much ammo. Guns kill a demo, pocket mods and chem stations do not
. Seriously, I still think MP is still much much easier, even with a few demos on horde night.
Perks were an alternative way to get some recipes, generally recipes were always RNG too. And it bothered me that especially in MP the whole progression could be accelerated greatly by perks.
In fact that is a detail I don't like with magazines, the reduced randomness of getting unrelated recipes like the food recipes. With weapon recipes that is fine as those recipes are practically just improvements on almost the same weapon, but it is a bit boring that I always get the gas can recipe at exactly the same time in my progression
And in normal gameplay you wouldn't do anything different, just keep cloth instead of dropping it. You may be surprised how much you would bring back every day and all it costs is another inventory slot.
The important info here would be what type of weapons did you have and how much ammo. Guns kill a demo, pocket mods and chem stations do not
. Seriously, I still think MP is still much much easier, even with a few demos on horde night.Perks were an alternative way to get some recipes, generally recipes were always RNG too. And it bothered me that especially in MP the whole progression could be accelerated greatly by perks.
In fact that is a detail I don't like with magazines, the reduced randomness of getting unrelated recipes like the food recipes. With weapon recipes that is fine as those recipes are practically just improvements on almost the same weapon, but it is a bit boring that I always get the gas can recipe at exactly the same time in my progression
If anything it is less random than it used to be (and Meganoth posted while I was writing). You put points in perks and you get those magazines. So far (I've got a couple A21 games under my belt, but only SP) I will have maxed my trees out on books and everything else is in the 20s. Now I agree this must suck hard in MP because unless you divy up who loots the mailboxes and bookshelves then you are going to get mostly what the guy with the perks have. I guess the designated looter is a thing of the past (because yes, I have played MP prior to A21). And no, I'm not a big fan of the magazines either.
You should be getting significant stuff from quests and loot, especially if you haven't made QL6 craftable I mean who wants to be stuck with QL5? I go through duct tape by the truckload, 2 QL6 robotic turrets were 90 each. Drone 60. Full set of QL6 steel and military armor crafted, and pockets
I've still got a half a chest of cloth. I have ran through the clothing store probably twice this run. I otherwise have not put myself out gathering cloth. It's still pretty much a 1 time ordeal because once you have full t3 gear you don't need to gather anything besides building material and ammo at that point.I am just still having trouble believing it is as bad as you make it out to be.
Yes, it's random of course, someone in that thread said like 3k.
It's hard for me to say exactly because I couldn't even carry it all out in 1 trip.
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Oh right, that is the other thing I don't like with magazines. Originally they said the boost would be minimal, but now in effect it is the all-overriding mechanic to get specific magazines and in comparison nearly none of everthing else. Instead of a safety measure which it should have been.
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Well maybe they will tweak it, but more likely, it will just be replaced by something we all hate even more in A22 and we'll all reminisce about the "good old days when you got recipes from magazines"