PC Too many zombies in walls and ceilings

[meilodasreh]

Let's say, 10-20% of current zeds in their perfect hiding spots. 60% sleeping in actually random spots in rooms (not on shelves, but sanely random). Rest, wake up and patrol slowly within the volume.

I would like mostly all of them wandering around in a certain area (maybe 2-3 rooms, depending on the size of the poi). Some few asleep, and ZERO walled in ones.

It would be a far better way to scare you if a zombie scuffles around the corner just when you enter a room, because it is not repetitive and foreseeable as the concealed ones.

In fact I wouldn't mind if at least some would even have the ability to open unlocked standard doors. It'd be cool if you hear a door creak somewhere...

Really hope this is where TFP will go with wandering sleepers.

 

[theFlu]

I would like mostly all of them wandering around in a certain area (maybe 2-3 rooms, depending on the size of the poi).

I wouldn't hate that, either; probably way more than 3 for Higashi though, no? But it might not be all that compatible with the "dungeon crawl" -design. That sorta requires there to be "some, everywhere".

It would be a far better way to scare you if a zombie scuffles around the corner just when you enter a room

Someone in TFP is going, "hey, that's an easy trigger to build" right now. Expect 50% of all rooms have a dedicated greeter in A22.

 

[meilodasreh]

no please not as a trigger that does "when player crosses doorstep then activate zombie cornering". That's not what I meant. Would get old/repetitive again.

Let them move around by themselves and do their thing, just as the random ones outside in the streets. Maybe they could be bound to some paths so that they can't go "out of bounds", I guess that would probably mess up questing.

 

[Ananais]

I actually like the lumberjack in the fireplace. 

I don't mind them in wardrobes, closets and ceilings even if those are overused.  I think that fake walls don't make sense, especially the concrete ones.  And boxes also don't make any sense.  But I can live with these things.  What I don't like are when they spawn out of nowhere when you press a button.

This pretty much covers my feelings on the matter as far as the game, but I would be lieing if I said that it had not prompted me to conider where I would hide to surprise a survivor if we ever had an outbreak and I was bitten

 

[warmer]

I can understand the lack of realism, or "cheese" when they pop out of walls/closets. However, without this stuff, the game completely loses any sense of danger for me. Once a game becomes to predictable I cease wanting to play.

Everytime I barely make it out of a situation with single digit HP I think "this is why I keep playing" that rush is what I aim for. Without ambushes, I personally, wouldn't feel any POI is a challenge after 1000+ hrs of gameplay.

 

[Krougal]

This pretty much covers my feelings on the matter as far as the game, but I would be lieing if I said that it had not prompted me to conider where I would hide to surprise a survivor if we ever had an outbreak and I was bitten

I am in the wrong business, so many people here need professional help...

 

[meilodasreh]

However, without this stuff, the game completely loses any sense of danger for me. Once a game becomes to predictable I cease wanting to play.

[...] Without ambushes, I personally, wouldn't feel any POI is a challenge after 1000+ hrs of gameplay.

I completely agree, but this is exactly why I don't like this system. 

What you say may be correct for the first, maybe the second time you do a poi.

But after that you know exactly when and where you will be abushed, and from where they will come.

Sure there is some variety, sometimes one of the hiding spaces is unpopulated, but still, where's the thrill then?

Wouldn't it be better if the zombies would kind of have their own life within the volumes, so that you can only expect them to be there, but they are in different spots every time?

 

[AtomicUs5000]

If there was another zombie similar to the mutated zombie, except that it explodes acid everywhere upon impact or getting too close, I would be truly scared in tight POIs as opposed to these jump-scare tactics. Just the possibility of turning a corner and seeing one of these in my face would elevate the senses.

 

[Krougal]

If there was another zombie similar to the mutated zombie, except that it explodes acid everywhere upon impact or getting too close, I would be truly scared in tight POIs as opposed to these jump-scare tactics. Just the possibility of turning a corner and seeing one of these in my face would elevate the senses.

Me, when I run right into the arms of a bloater in Dying Light (the original DL, not the @%$#ty sequel)

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Me, when I run right into the arms of a bloater in Dying Light (the original DL, not the @%$#ty sequel)

Me as well, but also into the suiciders in Dead Island (the original that you can get for $3 on sale, not the overpriced sequel that got sucked into a year long Epic store exclusivity contract)

 

[zztong]

Wouldn't it be better if the zombies would kind of have their own life within the volumes, so that you can only expect them to be there, but they are in different spots every time?

That kind of how it works. For example, a typical volume might be configured to select 4-5 sleepers from the 10-12 sleeper blocks that get placed within it. The game picks the 4-5 from the 10-12. Or, if an infestation, it picks 8-10 from the 10-12.

Trivia: If you configure the volume to place 4-5 sleepers but only give it 3 sleeper blocks, you get an Exception! Yay! (IIRC, IndexOutOfRangeException)

 

[warmer]

I completely agree, but this is exactly why I don't like this system. 

What you say may be correct for the first, maybe the second time you do a poi.

But after that you know exactly when and where you will be abushed, and from where they will come.

Sure there is some variety, sometimes one of the hiding spaces is unpopulated, but still, where's the thrill then?

Wouldn't it be better if the zombies would kind of have their own life within the volumes, so that you can only expect them to be there, but they are in different spots every time?

If you ever double dip on a quest, you'll notice some POI have several spawn variations. It's not drastic, but they do change locations, I do agree having a more dynamic system would be cool. Personally my ideal would be some sleepers and a few wandering in a poi. The closets make sense when you think about it. Where would you hide from zombies? lol they just all got infected before hand, that's why they are there.

I do like the blocks that break suddenly. Those still surprise me quite often because of how many POIs they add with large updates.

A good one to add would be one that crawls out from under the bed. We have a crawl animation, it would be cool if they could work that in for the skinny zombies. The big zombies would probably clip through really noticeably

 

[The_Great_Sephiroth]

That crawl animation is broken right now. I have opened a door and had a zed behind it. If I hit said zed with a hammer or whatever he falls down. Hit again and he switches into crawling which is FASTER than walking and starts hitting like crazy. A lumberjack crawling is equivalent to a lumberjack on cocaine.

 

[meilodasreh]

That kind of how it works.

If you ever double dip on a quest, you'll notice some POI have several spawn variations. It's not drastic, but they do change locations

This isn't real variation. You still know exactly where to look for them. No difference if there are some spaces empty when you check them all because you know.

Personally my ideal would be some sleepers and a few wandering in a poi. The closets make sense when you think about it. Where would you hide from zombies? lol they just all got infected before hand, that's why they are there.

Yes this. As I said myself before, I'm perfectly fine having them come out of reasonable hiding spaces.

I do like the blocks that break suddenly.

Me too...but not one-hit breaking solid walls that are perfectly camouflaged fake ones. If they come out of somewhere, it should also be somewhat comprehensible how they entered in the first place.

Another thing that came to my mind:

What about some of them sleepers would have a randomly appearing "fast-wakeup function"

It's kinda too convenient sometimes cause they always perform their little "boot up" animation when they stand up and shake their head a little,

giving you enough time to properly place a headshot. 

 

[Krougal]

That crawl animation is broken right now. I have opened a door and had a zed behind it. If I hit said zed with a hammer or whatever he falls down. Hit again and he switches into crawling which is FASTER than walking and starts hitting like crazy. A lumberjack crawling is equivalent to a lumberjack on cocaine.

Yeah, it's pretty awful!

 

[Kyoji]

I can understand the lack of realism, or "cheese" when they pop out of walls/closets. However, without this stuff, the game completely loses any sense of danger for me. Once a game becomes to predictable I cease wanting to play.

Everytime I barely make it out of a situation with single digit HP I think "this is why I keep playing" that rush is what I aim for. Without ambushes, I personally, wouldn't feel any POI is a challenge after 1000+ hrs of gameplay.

There are ways to increase difficulty without adding such mechanics of zombies spawning on triggers. It's immersion breaking to see the zombies spawn right before your eyes and it's not much more difficult to force trigger zombie spawns once you know the mechanic. It also ruins much of the luster behind an entire perk tree as many new POIs abuse the trigger mechanic making them impossible to utilize stealth.

Also, stealth wouldn't be OP. Stealth is very slow and it's simply faster to smash your way through. Plus many zombies are hidden behind actual objects which makes them harder to get to and finish a POI in a reasonable amount of time. It's a tradeoff of speed vs safety and if you are too slow then horde night will give you issues.

I imagine some of this could be fixed with their proposed new system allowing some zombies to "roam" within the POI which hopefully would reduce the number of trigger occurances and even sleeper zombies to a minumum. It makes far more sense and is more difficult to have zombies patrol an area than to have them lay on the ground or spawn in front of your eyes. 

Trigger zombies I think would be best if the focused on spawning them off camera (such as behind you a ways as in some POIs)

 

[warmer]

There are ways to increase difficulty without adding such mechanics of zombies spawning on triggers. It's immersion breaking to see the zombies spawn right before your eyes and it's not much more difficult to force trigger zombie spawns once you know the mechanic. It also ruins much of the luster behind an entire perk tree as many new POIs abuse the trigger mechanic making them impossible to utilize stealth.

I use stealth and have never felt it was ruined by this because you can't stealth your scent. This is a fundamental aspect of how all creatures identify prey in the when they can't see them.

That aside, stealth with immunity to be detected would completely ruin this game in terms of difficulty. It's really easy to make your way through a POI without triggering a single sleeper, all without a single point in stealth if you take your time. Without ambushes, my same point remains. All the difficulty is sucked out of it.

For me cranking up the HP/lessing damage down doesn't increase difficulty, it just makes things bullet sponges which I can't stand in games. It's not harder, it's annoying. That is just a lack of creativity in enemy/gameplay balance. 

The hardest part of this game has always been time management. How you spend your time is the most difficult choice when you play solo and that is me 95% of the time.

 

[Krougal]

I use stealth and have never felt it was ruined by this because you can't stealth your scent. This is a fundamental aspect of how all creatures identify prey in the when they can't see them.

That aside, stealth with immunity to be detected would completely ruin this game in terms of difficulty. It's really easy to make your way through a POI without triggering a single sleeper, all without a single point in stealth if you take your time. Without ambushes, my same point remains. All the difficulty is sucked out of it.

For me cranking up the HP/lessing damage down doesn't increase difficulty, it just makes things bullet sponges which I can't stand in games. It's not harder, it's annoying. That is just a lack of creativity in enemy/gameplay balance. 

The hardest part of this game has always been time management. How you spend your time is the most difficult choice when you play solo and that is me 95% of the time.

Good points.

I feel the same about bullet sponges.

When you consider this basic truth, there is a large opportunity cost to stealth (granted on nightmare difficulty it is less than on nomad because speed of killing) so no matter how good it is, one could argue that it still is not OP. Although there is the fact that stealth is useless on horde night, I ultimately gave it up because it takes twice as long to clear a POI and my time management skills suck already TBH.

Stealth is still very broken.

 

[Melange]

The hardest part of this game has always been time management. How you spend your time is the most difficult choice when you play solo

I agree here. I also play mostly solo, and find that no matter my best intentions, there's always some item or resource that I find myself lacking (or simply have too much of). Okay, fall back and harvest/craft and then go out looting or questing again. Oh, and check the clothing/armor/melee/guns/tools/parts/etc storage crates before you go out because they are starting to overflow....sell or scrap or craft more crates for the excess. Then rearrange the storage so my hoarded items are in 'logical' order. By no means a complaint, it just takes time. It takes time away from glorious looting, the lost time of questing to gain (hopefully) good rewards and just the plain fun of exploring.  New POI? Yes! Dastardly hidden zombies? Assured. But I do feel TFP has tried to make the experience engaging and wants us to stay with a play through, rather than just restart and see what RNG throws on the table this time around.

That said, I must admit that I'm still on A20 in the Undead Legacy mod. Because well, I haven't quite embraced the non-jar dew collector concept, and I have way too many hours invested in this session. 

However, your point still stands. Time and inventory management is an integral part of the game. And the sooner a player grasps the concept, the smoother (portions of) the game becomes.

 

[The_Great_Sephiroth]

I also agree with time management. It's why I made the modlet that allows for up to six hour days. Seems like zeds can take more rounds now and with the default (one hour?) days I just don't have enough time. It's like playing Age of Empires 3 where you're constantly scrambling (a reason I stick to AoE2 among others) and I don't enjoy that, because one wrong move and it's all over. I prefer two hours of daylight and an hour of night right now. Makes for long horde nights which is fun, but it gives me enough time to move at a steady pace and setup basic defenses by the first one.

Also, while speaking about difficulty, what EXACTLY do the difficulty settings change the game?