PC a21.1 b6 cloth cost increase

[Vaeliorin]

To be fair, they also increased the amount of cloth you get from scrapping stuff.  I went through the Savage Country Superstore the other day, and came out with over 3200 cloth.

I do wish they'd increase the yield from curtains/couches/etc. as well.  There's almost no point to chopping them down anymore when they only give 2 cloth.

 

[Krougal]

To be fair, they also increased the amount of cloth you get from scrapping stuff.  I went through the Savage Country Superstore the other day, and came out with over 3200 cloth.

I do wish they'd increase the yield from curtains/couches/etc. as well.  There's almost no point to chopping them down anymore when they only give 2 cloth.

I think they struck a good balance. I had so much cloth before it was silly.

I felt the same about the yield, but then I think they wanted to make it an early game struggle. I actually collected cotton to make myself a few bandages on day 1, which is something I haven't done in many alphas.

By week 2 it isn't an issue anymore.

 

[Maharin]

Harvest cotton and turn it into cloth... not like most worlds lack for cotton.

 

[Vaeliorin]

I think they struck a good balance. I had so much cloth before it was silly.

I felt the same about the yield, but then I think they wanted to make it an early game struggle. I actually collected cotton to make myself a few bandages on day 1, which is something I haven't done in many alphas.

By week 2 it isn't an issue anymore.

Yeah, I always grow cotton (admittedly, I typically have 25 plots of every plant), but I almost never use it.  Used to having items that require cotton, but that mod just got updated a day or so ago.

It just feels like I'm wasting my time harvesting couches and curtains, but it's such a habit that I can't stop.

 

[nostalginator]

I wonder what the goal of this change is.

Introducing tedium for tedium's sake.  Penalizing us for playing too efficiently.

I'm sorry, but if my ancestors could see me digitally picking cotton on a massive cotton farm FOR FUN, I would deserve whatever haunting they decided to inflict on me as a result.  I've swallowed every single stupid change they made this alpha but this?  No.  @%$#, and I cannot stress this enough, this.  This is enough for me to uninstall and not look back.

 

[Krougal]

The glue is the bottleneck as always anyway.

On the one hand, it is good to have item sinks.

On the other hand, yes tedium for tedium's sake does get old. I don't think it is too bad, I suppose if the glue weren't the delay the cloth might bother me.

Too funny about the cotton farm, but yeah, I guess I can't blame you.

 

[RipClaw]

Introducing tedium for tedium's sake.  Penalizing us for playing too efficiently.

I doubt that very much. Otherwise, they wouldn't have increased the amount of cloth you get when you scrap clothes.

I started a new game on Friday and at no point did I run out of cloth. I just scrapped the clothes that I found. One visit to Savage County and you have enough cloth for the rest of the game.

 

[ElCabong]

I think this is not a bad idea.

I could not make a full set of padded armor last night because had to use 10 of it to make duct tape.

The first few days should be all about tough choices.

 

[Vaeliorin]

One visit to Savage County and you have enough cloth for the rest of the game.

You know, people say this, but I went through a Savage Country and came out with ~3200 cloth.  Last night I wanted to make 500 duct tape, but I only had 5022 cloth, so I settled for making 100 duct tape, since I didn't want to use basically all my cloth just for duct tape.

 

[Riamus]

I don't mind since I don't use cloth for anything but I'll still point out that when a game has an item that always ends up stacked up and unused, it needs to have some changes made to it.  This can mean adding new recipes to use the item or increasing the quantity used in current recipes or reducing loot chance or something else.  I doubt anyone didn't have a ton of cloth in their chests unless they just didn't loot it.  This change will reduce the cloth clutter.  Maybe 10 is too much but that doesn't invalidate that a change to reduce the huge amounts of cloth sitting around in chests is needed.

They seemed to have decided to make it easier to get cloth by increasing scrap numbers while increasing the number of cloth needed.  This seems intended to not make getting enough cloth more difficult while still keeping unused cloth down.  If you're not trying to get cloth, your cloth use should keep cloth stored to a minimum.  You can still try to get cloth and get it easily enough when you need it.  But you're not going to just stack up tons of unnecessary cloth just from basic looting.  They could have made it so that cloth dropped less often instead but they chose this route.  Changing drop rates in loot tables affects all other loot drop rates, so this was the easier option.  Maybe it's not the best choice but you'll probably be used to it quickly.

 

[Anabella]

I didn’t keep tons of cloth. I sold extra stacks to the traders. I think this change doesn’t really anything good to the game.  

 

[Riamus]

The effect is the same.  There was an overabundance of cloth, whether you kept it or sold it.  Overabundance of a resource in a game really isn't a good thing.  This adjusts that.  Maybe it needs some tweaking of values (5 instead of 10, maybe) but otherwise I think the change makes sense.

 

[Anabella]

An over abundance of something is not bad. That is the number one way to get stuff to trade/sell in games.

 

[nostalginator]

The effect is the same.  There was an overabundance of cloth, whether you kept it or sold it.  Overabundance of a resource in a game really isn't a good thing.  This adjusts that.  Maybe it needs some tweaking of values (5 instead of 10, maybe) but otherwise I think the change makes sense.

The game doesn't take place on Mars, where your only resources are rocks and sand.  It takes place in civilization where the resources have already been produced but the number of people available to use them has been cut drastically (down to 1 if you're playing solo).  There's going to be an overabundance of resources.  You don't *have* to hoard them, but they will be there.

 

[Riamus]

An over abundance of something is not bad. That is the number one way to get stuff to trade/sell in games.

Overabundance isn't good for a game.  You can sell and trade things without having an overabundance of stuff.  For that matter, this game has so much money (dukes) that you don't have any reason to sell things except to get rid of them.  But even if there was a real market in this game, overabundance isn't good.  Let's just take this to an extreme and see if you feel it's not bad.... If you scrap a shirt and get 10k cloth from it, is that good?  After all, by what you said, it would be good so you have something to sell, right?  No.

The game doesn't take place on Mars, where your only resources are rocks and sand.  It takes place in civilization where the resources have already been produced but the number of people available to use them has been cut drastically (down to 1 if you're playing solo).  There's going to be an overabundance of resources.  You don't *have* to hoard them, but they will be there.

Game design and realism are two different things.  There are resources they don't let you get in the game - gems, ores, etc.  Why don't you get these?  Because the game has no use for them.  The game is going to be designed to have you use resources that you are able to obtain.  If the resources are either not being used because you get too much of them or the uses of them don't use enough of them, then they are going to balance that.

You can expect them to continue to adjust things to reduce overabundance in any part of the game where they see it.

 

[Vaeliorin]

You can expect them to continue to adjust things to reduce overabundance in any part of the game where they see it.

Cool, so they're going to nerf resources from mining?  I spent an ingame day (well, more like 3/4 of a day) mining since the trader didn't have any quests I was interested in, and I came back with 300k iron and 200k stone.  Seems like an overabundance to me (though truth be told, I'll probably use all of that eventually.)

 

[Riamus]

Cool, so they're going to nerf resources from mining?  I spent an ingame day (well, more like 3/4 of a day) mining since the trader didn't have any quests I was interested in, and I came back with 300k iron and 200k stone.  Seems like an overabundance to me (though truth be told, I'll probably use all of that eventually.)

A large amount of a resource is not the same thing as an overabundance of the resource.  If the game is designed to use a lot of something (like you do with iron and stone), then having a lot of it is not an overabundance.  If the game is not using a lot of a resource (like cloth, previously), then a lot of the resource is an overabundance.  They specifically made it so you use more of it so that you are using up the resource so it's not an overabundance even though they also made it so you can get more of it easily, proving that there is a difference -- they give you more but make you use more, so they didn't nerf how much you can get.  They made it so it wouldn't be an overabundance even though you can get more.

Also keep in mind that when you're mining, you are spending a lot of time to get that large amount of resources.  In A20, you would get a ton of cloth with no effort while you're looting everything else.  You didn't specifically go out to collect cloth (most didn't, anyhow) except perhaps in the first day to get cloth armor.

 

[Krougal]

A large amount of a resource is not the same thing as an overabundance of the resource.  If the game is designed to use a lot of something (like you do with iron and stone), then having a lot of it is not an overabundance.  If the game is not using a lot of a resource (like cloth, previously), then a lot of the resource is an overabundance.  They specifically made it so you use more of it so that you are using up the resource so it's not an overabundance even though they also made it so you can get more of it easily, proving that there is a difference -- they give you more but make you use more, so they didn't nerf how much you can get.  They made it so it wouldn't be an overabundance even though you can get more.

Also keep in mind that when you're mining, you are spending a lot of time to get that large amount of resources.  In A20, you would get a ton of cloth with no effort while you're looting everything else.  You didn't specifically go out to collect cloth (most didn't, anyhow) except perhaps in the first day to get cloth armor.

Eventually it doesn't matter. In a game like this you are always going to have "post-scarcity".

Unless there is a sink or you just abitrarily take stuff away from the player there comes a point when they are overloaded with crap.

For me I am restarting by then anyway it seems.

At least it isn't like Minecraft where there is "I don't have this, I need some" and then there is "I have this, I don't need anymore (because you've got a farm)" with really no in between.

 

[ElCabong]

Why not pile on more manure? Make it 2000

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

It´s almost like they want you to go in POI´s even more.

And yeah i know there is cotton. But that is limited, especially in MP, and even more boring than harvesting curtains, couches and such (shocker i know). Raiding a Savage country to go trough all the shelves isn´t exciting either and there isn´t always one near.