NPCMod and Addons

[Guest]

For example, after trying most of them out, I noticed that the raiders spawn in way too frequently and right when you start off with nothing too... giving you no chance against them (especially since some spawn in with rockets or AKs). I've already died 3 times to them and have yet to even encounter a single zombie. It's only day 2. Raiders should be an addition to the zombie based game, not a main focus.

I shall share 3 new entitygroups.xml files with you in private for the 1-DarksRaiderz, 1-DarksSoldierz, and 1-DarksCleanerz.

Simply replace the existing ones with the mod Config folder with the ones I provide.

The goal is very simple, to ensure you don't die without good and fair reason, see the Add On Pack characters as the exception rather than the rule, and to only see the rocket dude very rarely. This will ensure the zombie based feature remains prevalent and the Add On Pack is complementary and game enhancing.

 

[khzmusik]

With all due respect, please raise this discussion in a separate thread just for now and invite people to join it.

EDIT: Removing stupid drama. Apologies.

...For everyone else:

I was in the middle of creating a standalone application that generated probabilities for NPCs (or other characters) in entity groups - both biome and the NPC Core POI groups. It would read from the NPC Pack's entityclasses file, calculate the "difficulty" of each NPC, and use that to generate the spawn probabilities for entity groups,

I'm going to continue work on this, but it will only be after I finished updating my own NPC packs. I'm really hoping the NPC Pack authors will use that program instead of just setting all their characters to the same probability (though obviously I can't force people to use it). If that happens I will let folks know.

 

[Guest]

With all due respect, I raised all of these concerns numerous times when I was on the team, and they were completely ignored. I had even created probabilities that didn't have these problems, after a couple years of work and testing, and immediately after I left you just discarded all of that work and went with what you had (which is IMHO objectively inferior).

This image relates to a post on April 19, 2022. It was actually addressed directly to you in order for us to discuss the probabilities that were shared. However, I was informed you had 'left the building'. As such, any attempt for discussion, amending things slightly, and moving forward ended there.

It shows entering a sleeper volume and being faced with 4 fall back entities for Harley, as well as a single instance of a Gypsy entity tucked behind a screen. Since there were 2 other Bandit Add on Packs being tested with the probabilities that were shared, there was clearly something not working out as these fall back entities were taking precedent and the Add on Pack entities were hardly getting a showing. I was very willing to discuss this issue at that time and even made an approach. Please don't start raising things again now when I was unable to approach at that very time and left to go with a solution that resolve this.

Feel free to continue in the Guppy's Discord where this kind of discussion best serves the creative side of things. Discussing it here will simply cause confusion for others.

 

[khzmusik]

This image relates to a post on April 19, 2022. It was actually addressed directly to you in order for us to discuss the probabilities that were shared. However, I was informed you had 'left the building'. As such, any attempt for discussion, amending things slightly, and moving forward ended there.

EDIT: This is drama between me and Arramus. I should not have said anything. My apologies.

 

[Fox]

I'd just like to add publically that I hope you guys find some way to resolve this drama and find a middle ground where you can all work together or separately in a way that can still benefit us players. Because all we players (who come to this modpack thread) care about in the end is making our 7d2d world a little more interesting with occasional NPCs of some kind to compliment the zombie based world. Since the game devs are taking forever to give them to us, these mods are all we've got and I'm grateful to anyone who wants to get involved in making them for us.

 

[drkstardragon]

I'd just like to add publically that I hope you guys find some way to resolve this drama and find a middle ground where you can all work together or separately in a way that can still benefit us players. Because all we players (who come to this modpack thread) care about in the end is making our 7d2d world a little more interesting with occasional NPCs of some kind to compliment the zombie based world. Since the game devs are taking forever to give them to us, these mods are all we've got and I'm grateful to anyone who wants to get involved in making them for us.

This is laughable, there is no drama, npc mod is currently very much a wip as it was in a20, we are working through a number of issues that do not involve entitygroups xml edits. The entity groups are supplied as a placeholder and will definitely be edited at some point when we are happy with them. Khz has his own page on these forums where he can spam posts as much as he wants and does not need to do that here. If it continues i will ask for moderator assistance. That said,  we are looking for performance issues mainly at this time. Are the npcs attacking when they should, are their animations working properly, are they pathing through pois with the player, can you pick up and place them without them glitching out, is weapon swapping working, are you able to bring them with you when you travel in a vehicle, that sort of thing. So again, we are aware that the npcs are spawning too frequently, we will post when the groups are adjusted and look for feedback at that time. And no, khz, posts like the one you made above are not helpful in the least. They also make me want to stop working on any mods for 7dtd and go do something else, but i have committed for a21 and will not quit just yet. After that, who knows, thanks k.

 

[xyth]

Im glad folks are passionate about the NPCs.  I likely made a mistake releasing the A21 version of the mod too quickly before these spawning issues were resolved.  The overhaul modders are the primary target of this mod and they adjust spawning to suit their overhaul mod.  But more regular players are using it now so we need to be clearer about what each pack does and make sure it's spawnrates do not overwhelm the base game.   Thanks for all the feedback!

 

[khzmusik]

I'm going back and editing my posts to remove the drama. It doesn't help anyone. But my original points are still valid.

The fact is, calculating probabilities for spawning entities is difficult. It's not something where you can just say "use this value" and it will be well balanced.

My main concern is that most users, if they just install the Core and packs, will have a bad time because things are not well balanced. When you folks on the Core team figure that out, I'll be happy, regardless of whether you use any of my work or not.

And if you don't, I'll just release my own modlets that balance things, the same way I did in A20. So no worries.

EDIT: And I will continue to work on the standalone application that will do the (complicated) calculations automatically. I will put more emphasis on end users rather than NPC Pack authors, so everyone can use it. Hopefully this is a drama-free way to make this whole debate moot.

 

[Ru Melin]

Hy, I am not sure of you know this, but for me I canno´t download the soldier expansionpack.

best regards

 

[xyth]

Hy, I am not sure of you know this, but for me I canno´t download the soldier expansionpack.

best regards

There was an NPC controller change today so he is currently updating those packs.  Check back tomorrow. 

Uploaded new version of the NPCCore (and tutorialproject) to replace the NPC controller.  Combined with the latest SCore version, NPCs no longer shuffle, and are more responsive.   Physics materials added to NPC core's Baker, and the tutorialNurse,  as those were missing.

 

[Purple Yam Jam]

Thank you for all the hard work on this! This is, by far, a mod I simply cannot play without.

Does anyone know how to make this work with the District Zero mod?

For me, the perfect combination would be to have all the robots from that mod, plus the soldiers and raiders from this NPCMod spawning together in the same world. It would feel much more like a human war against the invaders.

 

[Guest]

District Zero replaces all the zombies with bots, and from preliminary testing with the NPC Mod and the Soldiers Add On Pack added in the Mods folder, there are no console errors with loading and the UI for the soldiers remains functional.

It's going to need a lot more testing for sure, but the signs look pretty good on that.

Soldiers hired wasn't showing with the custom interface and there are certainly other things to check, but the Soldiers team up readily enough and carry out their commands.

 

[Guest]

Thank you for all the hard work on this! This is, by far, a mod I simply cannot play without.

Does anyone know how to make this work with the District Zero mod?

For me, the perfect combination would be to have all the robots from that mod, plus the soldiers and raiders from this NPCMod spawning together in the same world. It would feel much more like a human war against the invaders.

I just double checked with Zilox that he doesn't mind me sharing that the NPC Mod and the Soldiers Add On Pack (I didn't test any Bandits/Raiders) showed functionality for the NPC Mod fundamentals even though some features may not be totally compatible. This is because it may not be his intention for District Zero Mod to be played this way. He is OK about that but reported that someone mentioned it was not working for them. This limited test was more successful to this stage, but any feedback you can share for long term play throughs will help to verify if they can be a good pairing.

 

[ahtawulfa]

Hello  I am playing currently with the better vanilla pack a21 and I can’t seem to get birds in the sky unless I f6 them and pretty much any other npc is not really found wandering around like they do when I’m not using an expansion - any ideas on what I can check for? All files are unzipped and placed properly snd again I can spawn them manually just don’t see them generate on their own it’s weird -thanks for any feedback and looking so forward to the civilian npc return!

 

[Guest]

It really depends on how the Better Vanilla Pack is changing things. NPC Mod things generally load before other mods because of the 'alphabetical' loading order. If a mod loading after the NPC Mod and Add On packs makes some fundamental resets, it will wipe out all of the NPC Mod actions.

 

[Purple Yam Jam]

@arramus This is awesome to know. Thank you for testing that! I wonder why, during my testing last night, I did not find any soldiers or raiders. Maybe I was too low level or not near enough to a city? I will continue testing and post here what my findings are.

By the way, I am the person who was asking Zilox and having trouble getting it to work. [SIZE=14.6px]Apparently[/SIZE] I need to test it more to see if they spawn after some time.

 

[Guest]

@Purple Yam Jam
I explored the District Zero files, and since it is an overhaul, it is rewriting all of the spawning group activity and removing all of them for the NPC Mod.

This is because it loads after the NPC Mod and wipes over the top of parts of it.

Rename District Zero to 0-District Zero. This will allow it to load before 0-Score and 0-XNPCCore since they load in alphabetical order.

This should allow the soldiers and bandits to begin spawning again.

However, there may be additional unintended changes since the NPC Mod will now be overwriting things in District Zero.

 

[drkstardragon]

Also, district zero does not use score, zilox has his own code changes to make certain things work, so i would not even attempt to add them together. A mod like darkness falls that uses a modified score it is possible to have compatibility. Arramus and i were able to do a full df playthrough with npc mod in a20 after patching the entity classes xml. Not saying that df will be compatible again, but since it had an score base we were able to add npc core as well, likely not the case with dz as it has its own code and adding score may cause major conflicts. On the other hand, just seeing them in game with dz in the pics above would give me some hope. 

Hopefully today i can update the add ons ive done, there have been some code, controller and other unity changes.

 

[Hellfire301]

im not 100% sure its this mod causing the "issue" im having since im running it with improved hordes and dangerous cities mod's, but its pretty much turned 7d2d into call of duty warzone everywhere and zombies seldomly spawn outside of POI's, ive had one instance of a massive hord of ferals going at a group of NPC's in a desert down town area. outside of that one instance i havent seen any zombies just every version of enemy npc's and the national guardsman having an allout war all over the map.     is there a way i can slightly lower the spawns from this mod? if its overwriting spawning from the other 2 mod. If not ill try removing dangerous cities and see if that helps spreading out all spawns in general. while its certiantly fun its starting to become anoying  

 

[Guest]

Consider updating your NPC Mod Add On Packs (for Darkstardragon's offerings) if they were downloaded a few days ago as they were updated to balance their spawn rates and spawn locations. They were inappropriately spawning in those Downtown type areas as well.

They were released a touch too early and still had their higher value spawn rates for testing, as well as being allowed to spawn in places they shouldn't. The updates will be a different experience. It is horrifying to think of how things were faring with the cumulative effect of them spawning Downtown at higher rates alongside the Dangerous Cities Mod pumping them out even more!! Your description is very accurate.

It's probably a good idea to download everything (including Score and XNPCCore) again as some nice fixes and optimisations have been put in place.
A21 requires a lot of 'overhauling' and just getting to this stage has been nothing short of a splendid achievement for those in the background putting the time in to balance things out.