PC Dew collector nerf in New update?

[AllTheGoodNamesAreInUse]

PROBLEM: Jars exist
SOLUTION: REMOVE JARS!   Success!

Oh no....

PROBLEM: Where to get water?

SOLUTION: Dew collectors give you 3 water per day!  Success!

Oh no...

PROBLEM: Players are building tons of dew collectors because 3 water per day is pretty useless, especially for multiplayer groups.

SOLUTION! DEW COLLECTORS ATTRACT SCREAMERS

The ridiculous chain of solutions to problems TFP created themselves to begin with. What next, are dew collectors going to require electricity?

 

[Evil_Geoff]

What next, are dew collectors going to require electricity?

I learned a long, LONG time ago while playing tabletop D&D (1st edition, mind you, not even AD&D yet...)

Don't give the GM ideas!

They come from the same dimension your spent brass goes to. The dimension that donates leather whenever you scrap an office chair. And the extra water whenever you use a bucket.

I'm going to roll with the "extra water dimension"... 

But only because office chairs can have their seats and backs covered in leather.

While I spent much time recovering brass on the firing range, I don't seem to recall anyone pausing to recover spent brass in a firefight.  But there should absolutely be a "brass catcher" mod available.

 

[Survior]

• Dew collector creates activity heat when filling
  

So if any if you folks have a bunch of those things set up it looks like you might be in for a screamer fest. Just curious is there even a way to turn them off?

I haven't bothered making those useless things but I know alot of players use them especially in MP so this seems like a massive F'in nerf. I swear the pimps have no clue what to do with this game anymore or fix the issues they cause.

An inanimate object made of plastic that "catches dew" generates heat. Omg lol. llllllllllllloooooooooollllllllllll.

And people apparently wondered why push back on this stupid change (the jar nerf) started on day 1.

 

[Scyris]

Yeah I don't really see the point to adding heat to them, thankfully I bet there is a mod for this on nexus that removes it already, if not there will most likely be one soon.

 

[warmer]

This is an interesting change. Lots of ways to deal with it. I think any free resource production should have some influence in how noticable this is for all aggressive entities. For the simple fact that you can easily cheese this in MP and become the king of water and duct tape on the server. You get get ridiculous dukes from selling that with no upper limit.

Also this makes perfect sense if you add Bandits and their heatmap to this concept. Those npc types I am sure would take note of a clean water source in their area. This places water into an area of concern when defending. Right now mine is just sitting out in the open.

 

[Survior]

This is an interesting change. Lots of ways to deal with it. I think any free resource production should have some influence in how noticable this is for all aggressive entities. For the simple fact that you can easily cheese this in MP and become the king of water and duct tape on the server. You get get ridiculous dukes from selling that with no upper limit.

Also this makes perfect sense if you add Bandits and their heatmap to this concept. Those npc types I am sure would take note of a clean water source in their area. This places water into an area of concern when defending. Right now mine is just sitting out in the open.

LOL.

Also, I guess "it makes sense" that bandits would use their "WATER RADAR" to track down those dew catchers.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

I'm not so certain it's in response to something.

They forgot to add the heat to the Workstation and Cement Mixer as well. Both of those got their heat added back in with this update.

Hmm. I see that now. I guess because of that there is no way to know. The realization that it was missing for the others could have come about while adding heat to the dew collector.

The deliberately chosen values for the dew collector indicate that at the very least, they did think about the impact of giving it heat. It wasn’t just a copy and paste.

 

[warmer]

LOL.

Also, I guess "it makes sense" that bandits would use their "WATER RADAR" to track down those dew catchers.

you ya know binoculars and rooftops like you would if you were scouting an area. Who is to say they are only interested in water. They could be scouting for signs of a settlement for raiding. lol not to hard to imagine. Would you just randomly roam around looking for resources, or be smart about how you spend your calories?

 

[Khalagar]

I don't get the backlash to this honestly. Yes if you have a big base you will have zombies and screamers show up, that's like, the whole point of the game

 

[Riamus]

Easy fix for anyone with large numbers of dew collectors - place them a few hundred meters from your base (not sure the minimum distance necessary to be in an unloaded chunk).  After that, the heat it generates really doesn't matter.  Even if it was in a loaded chunk that was far enough away, the zombies wouldn't likely come to your base.  It just makes it more of a pain to collect the water than if it's at your base.   But since you don't have to worry about it being damaged, you can just put it in a field and call it good as long as you're not on a PVP game or with other players who aren't allied with you and might try to take the water.

Otherwise, just put a few guns around the base and if a screamer comes, it'll die before it screams.

Easy ways to avoid the annoyance of this change.  The change really shouldn't have been done for the dew collectors or should have a much lower "heat" (aka "activity") value.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

you ya know binoculars and rooftops like you would if you were scouting an area. Who is to say they are only interested in water. They could be scouting for signs of a settlement for raiding. lol not to hard to imagine. Would you just randomly roam around looking for resources, or be smart about how you spend your calories?

That would be a good explanation. If you couldn´t simply hide them underground as long as you have 7 blocks of free space above them.

It´s one thing that cementmixers and such do genertate heat, that´s expected. But water doing natural things? I mean dew is everywhere on every surface. There wouild be a lot of screamers in the whole world. But whatever, i don´t care about the heatgeneration, it´s just another really weird thing in A21.

If this whole water change would even make things harder in XP that would be at least something. But it simply changes the way to get infinite water in SP, never had a lack of water to drink, never did i have to postpone crafting something, i always have enough water for glue. It only effects MP in terms of beeing harder and only for like 10-14 days. Propably even shorter now that we know exactly how things are going. Now things are just weirder than before, MP is harder and we have more magic happening with dissappearing jars. Yay. Another immersion killer.

I can already see lots of people having underground dew collectors with an entrance far enough away so you don´t run into the screamers it attracts.

 

[RipClaw]

The deliberately chosen values for the dew collector indicate that at the very least, they did think about the impact of giving it heat. It wasn’t just a copy and paste.

Looks to me like 3 dew collectors = a forge. I have 12 dew collectors on the roof and that would be the equivalent of 4 forges running all the time. 
I guess I will have to automate my screamer defense.
 

 

[AtomicUs5000]

Looks to me like 3 dew collectors = a forge. I have 12 dew collectors on the roof and that would be the equivalent of 4 forges running all the time. 
I guess I will have to automate my screamer defense.
 

Yeah… provided that you empty them, it very well could be the easiest screamer farm to maintain yet.

 

[Survior]

Nothing offends the undead more than morning dew being collected in magical jars that disappear when you drink from them.

 

[RipClaw]

Yeah… provided that you empty them, it very well could be the easiest screamer farm to maintain yet.

I don't want to farm screamers. I want to farm fruits and vegetables. Screamers make a bunch of unpleasant noises when you try to cook them and they don't taste particularly good.
 

 

[Laz Man]

I don't get the backlash to this honestly. Yes if you have a big base you will have zombies and screamers show up, that's like, the whole point of the game

Folks should go play and come back here with how it feels before judging it so harshly.  This is not a new concept players have had to manage in past alphas (e.g. other "workbenches" generating "activity".   As Faatal stated, we will balance accordingly if there are issues.  After QA playtests, it wasn't horrible, but they are not infallible so go play and let us know how it feels to you and provide details why.

One day, who knows, bandits could come and target specific things in your base as a new challenge.  Lots of fun new gameplay is on the horizon so prepare your bodies.  

 

[AtomicUs5000]

I don't want to farm screamers. I want to farm fruits and vegetables. Screamers make a bunch of unpleasant noises when you try to cook them and they don't taste particularly good.
 

Speaking of, plant growth is another natural process. Shouldn’t farms add to the heat map under the same logic people are using to justify the dew collectors?

 

[Riamus]

Folks should go play and come back here with how it feels before judging it so harshly.  This is not a new concept players have had to manage in past alphas (e.g. other "workbenches" generating "activity".   As Faatal stated, we will balance accordingly if there are issues.  After QA playtests, it wasn't horrible, but they are not infallible so go play and let us know how it feels to you and provide details why.

One day, who knows, bandits could come and target specific things in your base as a new challenge.  Lots of fun new gameplay is on the horizon so prepare your bodies.  

For a single player or a smaller group that doesn't feel the need for a lot of dew collectors, this won't make any difference.  For those who aren't ever at their base for long periods of time, this won't make an difference.  For anyone who spends a lot of time at their base and who has a lot of dew collectors (20+) and always keeps them emptied so they are always running, this is likely to generate so much heat that it couldn't be called anything other than annoying.  People are likely to make far more dew collectors than any other workstation because they are so slow and unlike other workstations that are generally used for a period of time and then not used for quite a while, dew collectors are likely to be emptied regularly unless someone forgets and so will constantly be generating heat.  It is really not a great idea to have heat on these, or it should at least be much lower value such as 10 dew collectors generate heat equal to 1 forge.

The thing with the idea of "try it and get back to us" is that for most players, they'll either not have many or will not be near their base long enough at a time for these to impact them at all.  So none of them will really complain other than just to say how bad it sounds to have dew collectors drawing zombies to you.  So it will appear like it's not a big deal and works fine.  But the problem is that those who are using a lot of them will have to use workarounds - even if they are easy, like having auto-turrets around the base to snipe the screamers before they can scream - for no real value, imo.

Btw, if bandits are going to try to find/attack the player/base, they really need something different from the current heat map setup.  The current setup is barely okay for zombies but wouldn't be a great thing for bandits.  Bandits would be attracted by noise loud enough to hear from a distance (definitely not something a dew collector will create), light during the night (if your base has no windows, a torch will not attract them), a building that stands out such as being larger than normal or more defensive than normal (not an easy thing to manage and probably best ignored), smoke (not everything smokes enough to be noticed), and tracks (not currently in the game but you could heat map the paths players use to get places).  I'm still not sold on bandits being a good addition to this game but we'll see.

 

[Laz Man]

But the problem is that those who are using a lot of them will have to use workarounds - even if they are easy, like having auto-turrets around the base to snipe the screamers before they can scream - for no real value, imo.

Workarounds?  Its part of the upkeep with maintaining a production base.  Auto-turrets are a valid strategy to protecting your base but would hardly call that easy as it takes progression and ammo to get those setup.   What do you mean by value?  The value you get with running multiple workbenches is tremendous.  That value comes at the cost of upkeep.  The further you progress in the game, that upkeep gets easier and you are able to grow your base accordingly.

Players have been running multiple forges / cement mixers / work benches for ages now, this is just more of the same.

Now if you don't like the whole HEAT = Sleeper / Encounter mechanic, that is a different discussion.

 

[Scyris]

Easy fix for anyone with large numbers of dew collectors - place them a few hundred meters from your base (not sure the minimum distance necessary to be in an unloaded chunk).  After that, the heat it generates really doesn't matter.  Even if it was in a loaded chunk that was far enough away, the zombies wouldn't likely come to your base.  It just makes it more of a pain to collect the water than if it's at your base.   But since you don't have to worry about it being damaged, you can just put it in a field and call it good as long as you're not on a PVP game or with other players who aren't allied with you and might try to take the water.

Otherwise, just put a few guns around the base and if a screamer comes, it'll die before it screams.

Easy ways to avoid the annoyance of this change.  The change really shouldn't have been done for the dew collectors or should have a much lower "heat" (aka "activity") value.

This does bring the issue of them getting damaged, they have VERY low hp and are easy to destroy, 1 hit from a iron pickaxe with decent perks is enough to destroy it which puts it back in your inventory. Which means a weak zombie can prob kill one in a few hits, while something like a fat zombie would be 1 shotting them. Normally the zombies wouldn't attack them unless they get to close and get stuck on it, which when stuck the zombie switches to destroy mode to try to get out. I use 3 forges in my base myself, one is for iron stuff, another for brass/lead, and the 3rd is for cement/misc stuff (prob lead). As said in vanilla they aren't running all the time so they often have time to cooldown. I usually have 8 dew collectors in a single player game, and I tend to empty them each time I come back from a quest. Might need to move them a bit away from the base (chunks are usually 16x16 blocks iirc) and put a wall around them maybe just wood with a door so I can get inside to loot them. Will have to see how it goes, I usually don't sit in my base much, I mostly craft stuff and drop off loot then I am out away from the base again.