PC Alpha 21 Dev Diary

[Space4Ace]

Have the Stags been temporarily removed to be worked on (like animation or something)? I see Deers all the time, but not even one Stag since A21 experimental, and I mean my solo game, plus two starts with my brother (started a new game when Build 317 was released).

I also noticed that "regular Bears" and Wolves don't spawn in the Forest anymore? I only saw Wolves during a Wolf roaming horde and saw a "Zombie Bear" / Dog roaming horde, but not one regular Bear in the Forest biome. There's still plenty of Bears, Wolves and Mountain Lions in the Snow biome as always... Just the way I like it!

 

[faatal]

Anybody else getting particularly bad crashes when ALT+Tab'ing out of the game? I know it's always a bit of a gamble tabbing out of games especially during any kind of loading, but with A21e I've had some real bad ones, like not just 7 Days crashing but every program completely locking up. Even had Windows Explorer crash when I absentmindedly tabbed during random world gen, making my wallpaper go full Solitaire Victory mode. Never had it even remotely close to this volatile before.

Obviously the solution is not to alt tab, but I think it's a problem when it even affects other open programs.

Using Windows 10 with RTX 2080 and i7-9700k, 16g RAM

Are you running low or out of memory?

 

[Dtfauss]

By that logic then, how would they hear other workstations behind several layers of concrete? I get what you're saying, I do. But it just seems like a change made purely to be dicks to players.

While I can imagine that it was always originally intended and just left out. I can also imagine it as a reaction/balancing thought to the dew collector farms that have tended to crop up in folks bases after this alpha was introduced. I would hope that the heat for 1 dew collector would be small, but 25 might add up. 'Heat' as it were would likely be better if it could be tracked as 'activity' both, player habitation, travel, base/build radius, basically the sum whole of impact by the player in an area - but it's their system to theorycraft, design, and implement.

 

[NekoPawtato]

Am I the only one who is curious to see how many dew collectors alone it would take to actually make a screamer farm?

Theoretically it would be the perfect block since it doesnt require any fuel like forges/campfire or items to "craft" like workbench or cement mixer, and it doesn't have any animations so it shouldn't lag compared to plopping down an equivalent amount of torches everywhere.

The only problem is figuring out how to stop the farm

 

[hiemfire]

The only problem is figuring out how to stop the farm

Don't collect the water generated by the collectors. It only ticks the heat map while the collector is generating the water.

 

[faatal]

While I can imagine that it was always originally intended and just left out. I can also imagine it as a reaction/balancing thought to the dew collector farms that have tended to crop up in folks bases after this alpha was introduced. I would hope that the heat for 1 dew collector would be small, but 25 might add up. 'Heat' as it were would likely be better if it could be tracked as 'activity' both, player habitation, travel, base/build radius, basically the sum whole of impact by the player in an area - but it's their system to theorycraft, design, and implement.

Heat map is a generic term for something that tracks activity. A dew collector generates the activity of 2 torches. All player activity would generally attract zombies. We could go as far and say, breathing, walking, touching and/or just plain old living attracts zombies. Anything you build could attract zombies as you touched it. Next we will be adding nylon gloves, so you don't get your smell on stuff...JK. There is no realism in much of this as we have no real zombies to base it on. Just fantasy and fun.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

we have no real zombies to base it on

 
Pfft. I knew it. Amateurs.

 

[Laz Man]

Just imagine when the bandits see all of the activity in your bases and decide to come to investigate...

 

[Riamus]

The HEAT system should really be renamed to "Activity"  as its not technically a measure of actual HEAT.

True, though I think this still makes no sense.  Walking around in boots on a wooden floor makes far more noise than a dew collector.  I doubt anything that can't hear the drop off a pin a mile away (purposefully exaggerated) would hear this sound.  And as was mentioned, this happens in nature and so shouldn't in any way be noticed. 

I don't really care about it increasing the heat map even though you're expecting people to have a ton of these and that is going to be a huge increase and that isn't good, but I can't think of any legitimate or logical reason for it.  It sounds like nothing more than a cheesy way to try and eliminate huge dew collector farms.  TFP,  you do know that they will just create multiple farms to combat this and still have huge dew collector farms, right?

Am I the only one who is curious to see how many dew collectors alone it would take to actually make a screamer farm?

Theoretically it would be the perfect block since it doesnt require any fuel like forges/campfire or items to "craft" like workbench or cement mixer, and it doesn't have any animations so it shouldn't lag compared to plopping down an equivalent amount of torches everywhere.

The only problem is figuring out how to stop the farm

Sounds like an exploit they will end up fixing.  That wasn't necessary to fix until they added something that makes no sense.

Heat map is a generic term for something that tracks activity. A dew collector generates the activity of 2 torches. All player activity would generally attract zombies. We could go as far and say, breathing, walking, touching and/or just plain old living attracts zombies. Anything you build could attract zombies as you touched it. Next we will be adding nylon gloves, so you don't get your smell on stuff...JK. There is no realism in much of this as we have no real zombies to base it on. Just fantasy and fun.

There is a difference between doing something unrealistic that adds to the game play value.  This doesn't.  This doesn't add "fun" in any way I could think of that someone would actually believe.  It is only a way to combat dew collector farms.  It is unlikely that there is any other reason than that even if that isn't the official reason.  And as pointed out, it adds an easy exploit.

Besides, in the end, you just force people to locate the dew collector farms away from their base so it doesn't affect anything and that just makes people have to run around for no real reason.  If you only need a couple, this wouldn't be an issue.  But for those who use a lot of glue and duct tape and repair kits, you are making it so the end output is equivalent to mining iron ore and that is pretty ridiculous.

 

[Coalthrush]

Why is this a problem?  So the occasional screamer shows up, big whoop...they are just free XP and you don't even have to leave the house.  Same thing happens with forges and nobody is crying about that.  What some call a "jar problem" is awesome in my opinion as I threw away hundreds of jars previously and I'm glad they are gone.  Sure, glue is a bottleneck but it is a survival game after all.

I throw away thousands of feathers, is that a valid reason to get rid of feathers?

The problem isn't the jars (even though I liked them) it's the fact that you can't collect water from logical sources such as a lake. That makes no sense. It's just there to punish the player. 

You can't even collect rain in the newly added "wonderful" and unnecessarily expensive water collector. You know, for collecting water.

I am all for making a survival games a challenge, but it has to make sense.

 

[nickasaurus rex]

So... All the supports are gone why didn't it fall? This looks like a structural integrity bug  

In other news I've been using a lot of steroids. I thought this gave the character withdrawal symptoms? Was that removed in a prior update or am I just the luckiest survivor alive. 

 

[Riamus]

I throw away thousands of feathers, is that a valid reason to get rid of feathers?

The problem isn't the jars (even though I liked them) it's the fact that you can't collect water from logical sources such as a lake. That makes no sense. It's just there to punish the player. 

You can't even collect rain in the newly added "wonderful" and unnecessarily expensive water collector. You know, for collecting water.

I am all for making a survival games a challenge, but it has to make sense.

There is a legitimate reason for the water/jar changes.  It is meant to make water more difficult to acquire.  Even though it's still fairly easy for anyone who knows the game, it doesn't change that it does make it more difficult.  You might consider it a punishment but at least there is a valid reason to want to reduce how easy it is to get water.  The change for dew collectors is different.  That offers no reason other than that they don't want players building large dew collector farms and that isn't a legitimate reason.  If the dew collectors produced enough water that you didn't have to "run" them non-stop, then it might be different.  But these are so slow that you pretty much have to always have them running.  It isn't like other workstations that might be used for even a few hours and then not be used for a few hours, allowing the heat map to dissipate to an extent dependent on the time involved.  These would constantly add to the heat map and it is multiplied by every dew collector you have.

TFP, if you are going to make a change to stop players from doing something you don't think they should do (you have that right), at least don't choose something that is so full of holes.  This change just means people will put the dew collectors far enough from their base that they won't affect the base at all and just have to spend time to go there to gather the water.  In the end, it offers you no benefit in stopping players from using them in large farms.

So... All the supports are gone why didn't it fall? This looks like a structural integrity bug  



In other news I've been using a lot of steroids. I thought this gave the character withdrawal symptoms? Was that removed in a prior update or am I just the luckiest survivor alive. 

More than likely some block there is a half block and so even though it looks like it's floating unattached, it's still on a block even though part of the block is air.

 

[Slingblade2040]

Heat map is a generic term for something that tracks activity. A dew collector generates the activity of 2 torches. All player activity would generally attract zombies. We could go as far and say, breathing, walking, touching and/or just plain old living attracts zombies. Anything you build could attract zombies as you touched it. Next we will be adding nylon gloves, so you don't get your smell on stuff...JK. There is no realism in much of this as we have no real zombies to base it on. Just fantasy and fun.

So exactly what does that mean? Is it till they completely fill a jar or is that aslong as they are running they will generate that much heat all the time?

Like seriously how many to do you folks think people have up at a time? Wouldn't this create a massive screamer horde problem for those folks who have 6 or more  being used? Especially on a MP server. This just seems like one of the usual pimp ideas that had no thought put into it.

 

[faatal]

I don't really care about it increasing the heat map even though you're expecting people to have a ton of these and that is going to be a huge increase and that isn't good, but I can't think of any legitimate or logical reason for it.  It sounds like nothing more than a cheesy way to try and eliminate huge dew collector farms.  TFP,  you do know that they will just create multiple farms to combat this and still have huge dew collector farms, right?

This has nothing to do with dew collector farms. Make all you can afford and place them wherever you can. This has to do with screamers actually showing up at your base because you are doing things. If you want to move a forge farm down the street to avoid the activity, you can do that too. This is a zombie game and we do want you to interact with zombies in various ways while at your base (screamers, biome spawns, wandering hordes and horde night). I find all those ways to be fun, because I like killing zombies.

So exactly what does that mean? Is it till they completely fill a jar or is that aslong as they are running they will generate that much heat all the time?

Like seriously how many to do you folks think people have up at a time? Wouldn't this create a massive screamer horde problem for those folks who have 6 or more  being used? Especially on a MP server. This just seems like one of the usual pimp ideas that had no thought put into it.

While they are filling any jars.

6 dew collectors would be 2 forges worth of heat. So far we have not seen an issue. The good news is, these are just our initial numbers and the game is still being balanced, so we can and will adjust as needed as we keep play testing.

 

[mprojekt]

Just imagine when the bandits see all of the activity in your bases and decide to come to investigate...

View attachment 28262

At least I have a use for all the ANFO now.

 

[Exxodous]

There is a difference between doing something unrealistic that adds to the game play value.  This doesn't.  This doesn't add "fun" in any way I could think of that someone would actually believe. 

I don't really feel it's unrealistic.  I think if I were in a real zombie apocalypses keeping a low profile would be of great importance.  Building a huge water collection system, farm, or massive complex would draw attention of not only to the Z's but raiders (bandits) just from the activity, noise, and movements of maintaining/collecting the area.  I look at it like this, if you have a couple dew collectors getting the water out of it is quick and I'm back inside.  Getting the water out of 20 dew collectors increases the time and effort thus I'm more likely to draw the attention of zombies....just my thoughts.   

It can also be fun if you like farming screamers which a lot of folks do with forges already.  I enjoy having to defend my homestead randomly from both random hoards (wish they were larger) and screamer hordes because they are slightly harder.  It adds interest to you daily activities.

 

[Exxodous]

I throw away thousands of feathers, is that a valid reason to get rid of feathers?

The problem isn't the jars (even though I liked them) it's the fact that you can't collect water from logical sources such as a lake. That makes no sense. It's just there to punish the player. 

You can't even collect rain in the newly added "wonderful" and unnecessarily expensive water collector. You know, for collecting water.

I am all for making a survival games a challenge, but it has to make sense.

I have to chuckle a little.  It neither makes sense nor is it logical that there are zombies in the first place, it doesn't make sense that I can carry 500 chunks of concrete in my back pack either.  I guess realism in a zombie game can be suspended in a lot of ways in my opinion.  I guess I like the change because in previous alphas water (bottled or not) might as well not existed because it was so easily obtained and plentiful. It was really a useless mechanic.  In reality when society falls clean drinking water will be constantly on your mind and a life or death problem you deal will all the time.

 

[AtomicUs5000]

I have to chuckle a little.  It neither makes sense nor is it logical that there are zombies in the first place, it doesn't make sense that I can carry 500 chunks of concrete in my back pack either.  I guess realism in a zombie game can be suspended in a lot of ways in my opinion.  I guess I like the change because in previous alphas water (bottled or not) might as well not existed because it was so easily obtained and plentiful. It was really a useless mechanic.  In reality when society falls clean drinking water will be constantly on your mind and a life or death problem you deal will all the time.

 
let's not mix up things making sense with realism. I don't want the fact that this isn't real life to mean it's ok to craft a spaceship out of duct tape and live in orbit with all of the cows and asparagus.

 

[CoolJ]

So dew collectors generate activity heat now. Why? You guys wanted us to have tons of them - the only purpose I can think of behind this change is that you've added it for the sole purpose of being a-holes. There's no reason something that passively collects a small amount of water should be attracting attention from zombies. At the very least, TFP could increase the amount of water from dew collectors to 4 or 5 in a 24 hour in-game period.

Try playing the agility class if you really want to see the game masters get insidious. At first, it's kinda nice. So everyone says sneak is OP. Well, that ends quickly. It seems like the POI designers hate the agility perk tree. They have doubled down on volume triggers. Now there is always a trap in just about every POI that is designed to throw you're glass cannon stealth build with light armor and single fire, low ammo, slow reload, weapons into the exact situation that your character is not designed for.

There is absolutely no way that a guy in yellow leather armor (if you're lucky) with a crap bow and the worst pistol known to man, can kill three glowing bikers, a couple feral white, and a half dozen standard feral zombies, in a tiny room that you have forced them to enter. The class relies on killing from stealth to multiply the damage your weapon can do in order to kill the very enemies your are throwing at the player and then you intentionally remove the very ability to do so. That isn't even the half of it. There is now rubbish piles on at least thirty percent of the floor tiles. I understand strategic placement, but absolutely covering the floor of every POI in rubbish is lazy and designed to punish one class only.

I have done hundreds of POIs now. I am forced to use automatic weapons and adopt a play style that my character has no perks for in order to just stay alive inside any POI past a tier 2. There are a lot of these kinds of traps even in tier 1 POIs. They just consist of a couple of slow walker pedestrian zombies that you could handle even if you were naked. In my opinion, that is where there types of traps belong. In a tier 5 infested POI, with that kind of zombie trap, you are literally giving a middle finger to agility class. There are at least five of that exact type of volume trigger in the Sham Factory alone now.

 

[Old Crow]

This is a zombie game and we do want you to interact with zombies in various ways while at your base (screamers, biome spawns, wandering hordes and horde night).

...We already interact with zombies. A lot. Coming back from a POI to 5 screamers just because we need water to make glue and have 10 dew collectors going isn't "fun." It's annoying. Especially when they're summoning friends without screaming.

Again, it feels more like a choice you guys made to be jerks, not because you think it's logical or fun.

Try playing the agility class if you really want to see the game masters get insidious. At first, it's kinda nice. So everyone says sneak is OP. Well, that ends quickly. It seems like the POI designers hate the agility perk tree. They have doubled down on volume triggers. Now there is always a trap in just about every POI that is designed to throw you're glass cannon stealth build with light armor and single fire, low ammo, slow reload, weapons into the exact situation that your character is not designed for.

There is absolutely no way that a guy in yellow leather armor (if you're lucky) with a crap bow and the worst pistol known to man, can kill three glowing bikers, a couple feral white, and a half dozen standard feral zombies, in a tiny room that you have forced them to enter. The class relies on killing from stealth to multiply the damage your weapon can do in order to kill the very enemies your are throwing at the player and then you intentionally remove the very ability to do so. That isn't even the half of it. There is now rubbish piles on at least thirty percent of the floor tiles. I understand strategic placement, but absolutely covering the floor of every POI in rubbish is lazy and designed to punish one class only.

I have done hundreds of POIs now. I am forced to use automatic weapons and adopt a play style that my character has no perks for in order to just stay alive inside any POI past a tier 2. There are a lot of these kinds of traps even in tier 1 POIs. They just consist of a couple of slow walker pedestrian zombies that you could handle even if you where naked. In my opinion, that is where there types of traps belong. In a tier 5 infested POI, with that kind of zombie trap, you are literally giving a middle finger to agility class. There are at least five of that exact type of volume trigger in the Sham Factory alone now.

Joke's on you, I already play agility and know how nerfed stealth builds are now.